ilkka_nissila wrote:
But the vari-angle screen takes more space on the left side of the camera so it would reduce positioning options available for the camera. I don't see how it would help in shooting in tight spaces, compared to the two-axis tilting screen in the Z8/9.
The vari-angle screen has the benefit of the option to turn it towards the subject, and also blocking the screen by turning its surface against the back of the camera so there is no stray light coming from it (can be a benefit when photographing indoor events such as a theatre performance). (Edit: removed erroneous sentence.) It can get in the way of L-brackets (if using a pod). Finally, when using the screen to shoot horizontals from low or high vantage points, the screen and camera strap often get tangled up. It is faster to set up such positions with the tilt screen and with the two-axis tilt screen the screen can turn in all four directions (up/down/left/right) without having to flip it around. The left hand also doesn't get in the way of the screen like it does when using the vari-angle screen.
I do like the option of having a camera with the vari-angle screen to ensure no stray light is coming from the camera as on the Zf. However, it is otherwise a very clumsy contraption compared to the two-axis tilt screen. I hope NR is wrong and the Z6III either gets the screen of the Z8/9 or the one-axis tilt screen of the Z6II. There are enough of the vari-angle screens in the lineup. Alternatively, a good solution would be to offer the purchaser a choice of all three options. So there would then be three sub-models of the Z6 III....Show more →
Z6iii will definitely appeal to videographers so you can almost certainly expect the flippy screen.
Low angle portrait shots are one scenario I enjoy the selfie screen on the Zfc. The rest of the time, it spoils the camera slightly IMO. The Z50 has the D500 style 2 axis tilt screen instead so that gives both options, which is excellent. I think many avoided the A7IV, A7C, A7CR, all and the modern Canon and most new Fuji cameras due to their type of screen. You can't buy the 33mp Sony sensor unless you go with a selfie screen.
I think a factory or user install option for each screen type could be trialled at least once so they can cover both markets and get the exact sales figures for a specific camera and that screen. They will find that it sells more units as 2 camera set ups. Having one of each could work well.
novalaker wrote:
Z6iii will definitely appeal to videographers so you can almost certainly expect the flippy screen.
How does the screen mechanism relate to stills vs. video? I don't understand the benefit here. The screen that tilts behind the camera is superior for both as it allows one to hold the camera without having to look to the side of it (at the screen which is on the left in the case of the vari-angle screen as opposed to being in the center).
Now I do understand that for selfie videos the screen that one can see is superior to the screen that one cannot see.
I've heard DPs who work on large projects all say they prefer having the screen behind the camera. I think it's mostly webcam & YT type usage where it's popular. So often I've been shopping for cameras and someone comes up and asks, "Can I use this as a webcam?". That must account for a lot of sales.
I guess running a production of both screens and having stock sat around would be risky. Hopefully, one day, they will come up with a solution for everyone that isn't clunky like the A7RV. There have been several attempts at it. The D5000 was interesting because it had the central rotating hinge at the bottom. The XT200 has a top hinge built into the rotating cradle. The a5100 has top hinge only but allows forward facing use. None of them quite works but perhaps the XT200 gets closest as GX Ace says in his XT4 review.
ilkka_nissila wrote:
But the vari-angle screen takes more space on the left side of the camera so it would reduce positioning options available for the camera. I don't see how it would help in shooting in tight spaces, compared to the two-axis tilting screen in the Z8/9.
The vari-angle screen has the benefit of the option to turn it towards the subject, and also blocking the screen by turning its surface against the back of the camera so there is no stray light coming from it (can be a benefit when photographing indoor events such as a theatre performance). (Edit: removed erroneous sentence.) It can get in the way of L-brackets (if using a pod). Finally, when using the screen to shoot horizontals from low or high vantage points, the screen and camera strap often get tangled up. It is faster to set up such positions with the tilt screen and with the two-axis tilt screen the screen can turn in all four directions (up/down/left/right) without having to flip it around. The left hand also doesn't get in the way of the screen like it does when using the vari-angle screen.
I do like the option of having a camera with the vari-angle screen to ensure no stray light is coming from the camera as on the Zf. However, it is otherwise a very clumsy contraption compared to the two-axis tilt screen. I hope NR is wrong and the Z6III either gets the screen of the Z8/9 or the one-axis tilt screen of the Z6II. There are enough of the vari-angle screens in the lineup. Alternatively, a good solution would be to offer the purchaser a choice of all three options. So there would then be three sub-models of the Z6 III....Show more →
As long as I can tilt the screen while the camera is vertical I don't care how it's attached or how much real estate it uses. That's where my current cameras fail me.
novalaker wrote:
Z6iii will definitely appeal to videographers so you can almost certainly expect the flippy screen.
Try capturing a video of a moving bird or animal with an 800mm lens while turning your head at a funny angle and looking off to the side of the camera in order to watch the screen, and tell me if you prefer that over having the screen in line with the camera body and lens...
akul wrote:
Not really, A new BSI 24.5MP sensor. A different animal. Hopefully with new AF sensor layout. Old sensor doesn't cut it at this point.
Luka
The Z6II already uses a 24.5 MP BSI sensor. The "new" one will almost certainly be a slight revision to the same unit if not identical. Regardless of what optimizations they do to it, it will not be much different assuming the rumor figures are accurate. It's already a fantastic sensor. The only significant improvement they can realistically make is a slight bump to readout speed because it won't be stacked and resolution is the same - DR and ISO performance reached a plateau about 10 years ago. I will be very surprised if it's not the exact same sensor but with perhaps an increased number of PDAF points, which does not require an all new sensor to be used.
If anything I thought they would bump it up to ~30MP, but if they are keeping the Z7 line, it would make less sense to do so.
What do you feel doesn't cut it with the existing Z6II sensor?
Record library books in between bookshelves with the Z9 screen and tell me you prefer that screen over the more video oriented. It's a different strokes for different folks. Though I do admit that I did prefer the Z9 screen over the XH2S recently trying to get low angle shots of a duck swimming with a 500PF. Sony is trying to do a one screen solution, but I think it's just fugly. molson wrote:
Try capturing a video of a moving bird or animal with an 800mm lens while turning your head at a funny angle and looking off to the side of the camera in order to watch the screen, and tell me if you prefer that over having the screen in line with the camera body and lens...
ilkka_nissila wrote:
How does the screen mechanism relate to stills vs. video? I don't understand the benefit here. The screen that tilts behind the camera is superior for both as it allows one to hold the camera without having to look to the side of it (at the screen which is on the left in the case of the vari-angle screen as opposed to being in the center).
Now I do understand that for selfie videos the screen that one can see is superior to the screen that one cannot see.
I guess I should have specified YouTubers. It's helpful for filming yourself. I agree that I usually prefer a tilt screen, but I also have been in plenty of circumstances where I needed a flip one, even as a non-YTer. For example, when I'm setting up an interview and the interviewee hasn't arrived and want to set up the framing before they get there. Not a super common occurrence but not uncommon either. If I had to choose between the 2 I would prefer a two-axis tilt screen, certainly not the current Z7/Z6 screens. But I think the smarter choice for this model is the flip for the audience they're gonna be targeting and what the competition is doing.
CanadaMark wrote:
The Z6II already uses a 24.5 MP BSI sensor. The "new" one will almost certainly be a slight revision to the same unit if not identical. Regardless of what optimizations they do to it, it will not be much different assuming the rumor figures are accurate. It's already a fantastic sensor. The only significant improvement they can realistically make is a slight bump to readout speed because it won't be stacked and resolution is the same - DR and ISO performance reached a plateau about 10 years ago. I will be very surprised if it's not the exact same sensor but with perhaps an increased number of PDAF points, which does not require an all new sensor to be used.
If anything I thought they would bump it up to ~30MP, but if they are keeping the Z7 line, it would make less sense to do so.
What do you feel doesn't cut it with the existing Z6II sensor?...Show more →
They could drop the blur filter, although that would probably make noise more visible.
molson wrote:
Try capturing a video of a moving bird or animal with an 800mm lens while turning your head at a funny angle and looking off to the side of the camera in order to watch the screen, and tell me if you prefer that over having the screen in line with the camera body and lens...
I'm not arguing it's the right choice, but it's what it will be. Find me a video-oriented consumer body with a tilt-screen, besides the current Z6... it doesn't exist. R6, A7IV, S5II, XH2S, G9II, I could go on. The Z6iii is not primarily marketed toward people shooting videos of birds with 800mm lenses. It's an entry-level model that will target people who make videos for YouTube and social media, at least to a large extent. The safer choice for this demographic is a flip screen, whether or not it's an inferior option. Of course, I do wish they'd just make the camera slightly thicker and use the dual flip-tilt screen on the GH6 or S1H.
novalaker wrote:
I'm not arguing it's the right choice, but it's what it will be. Find me a video-oriented consumer body with a tilt-screen, besides the current Z6... it doesn't exist.
Z8, Z9, X-T5, S1, S1R, S1H, A7R V, and GH6 are consumer cameras that have two-way tilting screens (and all are arguably better video cameras than the Z6).
For me, it's a moot point. I sold all the selfie-screen cameras that I owned, and do not intend to buy another one.
If the Z6 III (and Z7 III) turn out to be selfie-snappers as well, I will just carry on with my Z8 and Z9 as long as they are still working - or until a competitor comes out with something better (like Sony updating the firmware in the A1)... and I have my iPhone for when I want to take selfies.
What are the chances of the Z7III using the Z8 screen? Perhaps that is why NR says the Z6III is larger, so the body can be shared but the Z7III can use the Z8 screen. If I was working for Nikon I’d put a rotating flip out to the side screen on the Z6III (otherwise it won’t sell right?) and the Z8 portrait and landscape screen on the Z7III.
As for the Z6III, it will be heading off to testers if it hasn’t already so I guess the Z6II was the last of the tilt screen only cameras we’ll ever see in the 24-33mp FF market.
molson wrote:
Z8, Z9, X-T5, S1, S1R, S1H, A7R V, and GH6 are consumer cameras that have two-way tilting screens (and all are arguably better video cameras than the Z6).
For me, it's a moot point. I sold all the selfie-screen cameras that I owned, and do not intend to buy another one.
If the Z6 III (and Z7 III) turn out to be selfie-snappers as well, I will just carry on with my Z8 and Z9 as long as they are still working - or until a competitor comes out with something better (like Sony updating the firmware in the A1)... and I have my iPhone for when I want to take selfies....Show more →
I would argue those are almost all prosumer cameras, with the X-T5, S1R, and A7RV all being photography-focused. And the last 3 all have dual flip and tilt, which is the best option but makes the camera thicker. The Z6iii is competing with the A7IV, R6ii, S5ii, etc. so it will likely have the same screen as the Zf, which in my opinion should have had a tilt screen, but even with that camera they are trying to appease the YT crowd.
"Easy" yes. Finding an angle to actually monitor recording and monitor panning and tilting and such while you're on the actual side of the camera and not behind it is a different matter. Then you got recording interviews and you have tripod plates blocking the screen from being pulled out, gimbal handles blocking the screen or blocking the EVF so you can't monitor footage. There are a boat load of things that led to why I kind of transitioned to the X-H2S for some of the footage I record. The fact that you were like, "that sounds easy" just tells me you haven't tried to record mundane things and make them look interesting from an unorthodox angle. molson wrote:
That sounds so trivially easy I'm not sure it warrants a comment...either that, or you're not explaining the setup very well...?
JadedWriter wrote:
Then you got recording interviews and you have tripod plates blocking the screen from being pulled out, gimbal handles blocking the screen or blocking the EVF so you can't monitor footage.
Or you get L-brackets or cages or HDMI cables or microphone or headphone cables blocking the selfie-screen, so you're no better off... which is probably why anyone who does this professionally just uses an external monitor rather than dealing with the camera's LCD.
molson wrote:
They could drop the blur filter, although that would probably make noise more visible.
Do you mean the AA / OLPF? If so it's there to help with moiré/aliasing which larger pixels are much more prone to. The Z6 is also the more video focused camera compared to the Z7 and those filters are also there for video shooters. It's the same reason why the 24MP Sony bodies (including the A9 I, II, and III) have AA filters as well as the A7S line but was dropped in the A7 line when they finally bumped the resolution to 33MP in the A74 (or on the "R" bodies). There's also different strengths and orientations of AA filters, so they aren't all the same. Depending on how you used the camera, there would be just as many users who would prefer Nikon keeps it on that particular sensor If they bumped it to 30MP+ then almost certainly it would have no OLPF. At 24MP they are much more likely to keep the OLPF.
It shouldn't affect noise unless maybe you are over-sharpening to try and over-compensate for the AA filter effect in some cases. The D800E actually has slightly better noise handling than the D800, for example, but it's an interesting case because it doesn't actually lack an AA filter, it simply has another layer to reverse the effect which made it cheaper to produce alongside the D800. Regardless, AA filter or not, noise wouldn't be affected to a degree that would ever affect the final image in a meaningful way, especially with today's RAW converters.
Yeah that I wish I could get my job to invest into yeah, so everything just turns into an annoyance at some point molson wrote:
Or you get L-brackets or cages or HDMI cables or microphone or headphone cables blocking the selfie-screen, so you're no better off... which is probably why anyone who does this professionally just uses an external monitor rather than dealing with the camera's LCD.
If they bumped it to 30MP+ then almost certainly it would have no OLPF. At 24MP they are much more likely to keep the OLPF.