coralnut wrote:
Mirror lock-up is something you'll have to examine on a camera-by-camera basis. You'll find it in the F series professional cameras, but the way it was implemented changed from model to model. That's a very idiosyncratic feature you're asking about.
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Thanks. I know the original F has mirror lockup but you lose a frame; the F2 solved that problem. I'd like it mainly for creative purposes; I often take photos of dancers at low shutter speeds (1/30 and lower) for motion blur effects, and also like to do double exposures where the second exposure involves intentional camera movement at low shutter speeds. I can do that easily with my rangefinder cameras but it's harder with SLR due to mirror slap, which adds a different and unwanted vibrational blur. Of course with MLU I lose the ability to look through the viewfinder so maybe I should only do those kinds of photos with rangefinders anyway.
bjhurley wrote:
Thanks so much for all that useful info!
I don't care about AF but matrix metering would be nice, and ideally a camera that has mirror lockup and is also not too loud (my Minolta SR-T 303b stops traffic when I press the shutter).
Based on those simple criteria, do you have any specific recommendations?
The other option I've been considering is the original F or F2 and meter manually, since you can get a waist-level finder for those cameras (with magnifier) and I seem to have lost the ability to accurately focus with the split prism, at least based on experience with my Minoltas, despite having spent many years shooting a film SLR when I was younger. ...Show more →
I think matrix metering is an over-rated feature, especially if shooting negative film which has huge exposure latitude. Just avoid pointing the centre-weighted meter at the sky and you will be fine. The F3 could be a good choice for you. It has a silky smooth film advance and relatively quiet shutter. You can fit a waist level finder if that floats your boat. The ability to change focussing screens from the top is a huge advantage. Doing it through the lens mount on lesser cameras is a very fiddly operation.
Matrix metering comes into it's own when you're doing an oddball shot that it's designed to support -- like using one of the AF-D lenses with flash to photograph someone standing before a sunset. In that scenario (one of the few where Matrix metering and distance calculation really do anything for you), you'll get the background properly exposed with a wide aperture for an ambient light sunset while the flash will be given just enough power to illuminate the subject without bleaching them out. When the system works as intended in that kind of situation the results can be stellar.
Other than some situation like that, it's not all that special. I just use my Nikons in spot meter mode most of the time and meter several locations in the frame when composing. I learned to do that a long time ago and old habits die hard.
I do prefer to shoot transparencies, so getting accurate spot metering of the highlights is pretty important. For reversal film, not so much.
I've actually been using an N8008s. I think it was $30 on eBay a couple years ago. It's heavy, ugly and loud but everything works and the goofiness of it makes it sort of fun.. Click, slam...whir. It seems like something you'd find in the attic with a bunch of VHS tapes. Shutter speeds are electronically controlled and spot on. Matrix and spot metering are nice (although these were Nikon's early design) for transparencies (too bad Fuji 400h is gone). Easy to use and so cheap it's essentially disposable. Big viewfinder based on the F3HP and super easy legacy Nikon AF body layout. Doesn't focus very fast. but works fine with my 50mm f1.8D I also have an F and FM2. FM2 is probably my favorite of all the Nikon bodies I've used (Fe, FE2, F3) and less to go wrong. I had two FE2s experience electronic failures. I regret selling my F3HP but as I understand it, the LCD display in the viewfinder is a common failure issue as these are getting old.
Best advice is make sure whatever you buy is working well. Getting harder to get these repaired.
Unfortunately since most of these cameras are 40+ years old theres no guarantee that a working camera will stay that way long term. The safest bet is the mechanical cameras like F2 and FM2, but I would not be put off buying the nicer electronic cameras just as long as you understand there is some risk that it might stop working one day. I mitigate this risk by owning many cameras
I would not buy an F2 that has not had a service by a competent technician, as these ex-pro cameras have often had a hard life.
My experience with the FM and FM2 is that they're not all that robust. We've already talked about the false myth regarding the pounding of nails. The truth is that the risk of electronics failure is eliminated by the lack of electronics, but the weakness that remains is that they were created as consumer grade cameras, and they are now well beyond their rated lifespan. They're just not designed to have professional durability in mind, and all kinds of little things can break during routine use. Sure, you're not as likely to have an electronics failure in a camera that only has a light meter, but there are all sorts of durability problems. I just had the film release lever on the bottom of the camera get stuck in the "in" position on my FM and now the film advance sprocket spins both ways. The camera is useless now. I'm hoping that a drop of oil on a toothpick will fix the problem.
OTOH, I've got a box full of N90s that just keep on working at a small fraction of the cost.
Owning both, there's no way I would put new money into an FM or FM2. The cost for them is high enough that anyone should be considering an F series camera.
Theres no doubt that the 90s era AF cameras are a bargain, and mostly reliable.
My only complaint about them is that the rubber covering often turns to a sticky mess, and they are hideously ugly compared to the classic cameras of the 70’s.
Agree that the FM series is nothing better than consumer grade and not really worth the premium they sell for. They do look nice however The mechanical Copal shutter is quite reliable but I think the weakest part of the design is the film transport mechanism.
Has the F-301 / N2000 been mentioned in this thread?
It has a polycarbonate body, so doesn't feel as nice as an FM/FE but I'd guess it's likely more durable. The viewfinder / matte screen is significantly brighter and easier to use than the one in my FM.
The one feature it's missing unfortunately is the backlight-button from the FG. Exposure compensation is generally not that easy with this camera or at least my copy, as the dial is on the left is quite hard to turn.
I think of it as a cheap miniature version of the F3 and hope that suffcies to convince me not to buy an F3...
The F-301 is another in the bargain category. I think I paid £25 for mine.
Despite the plastic exterior it is still has a metal chassis underneath and feels solid.
The motor winder is a nice convenience but very loud like similar cameras with a built in winder in this era.
Most importantly it does have the correct font on the prism and does look a bit like an F3 at first glance.
Here is a picture I took with mine that I quite like:
very interesting thread, I just put an HP5 400 roll into my F3 and took a few shots which I know will be disappointing by the time I eventually develop the film but it triggered back the pleasure of shooting film.
I also own my dad's original F with the unfortunately not working Photomic, what a camera that is! The F3 is not just an amazing photography tool but also a great object to look at (something to still be proud of as an Italian), along with the F also 4 preAi lenses which back in time with dad we had converted to be mounted on the F3, 28-50-85-200, none of them any great but recently tested the 50/2H on both the D850 and Z6II and it is a quite interesting lens.
Back to the F3 I wanted to get a better than the 50/2H or AF 50/1.4D (ouch) lens and found the 1.4Ai, I asked the vendor about the Ais and he showed me an Ai pretending it was an Ais, never mind, 190 euros, I just said "I'll think about it..." and walking back towards the docks to board the ferry to come back home I thought that rather than adding another lens on a body where I start to face issues with checking correct focus "why not an AF film camera which would probably cost same as the 50 and use my AF lenses"
As I own a few lenses in both D and G flavour what I love (85/1.4 and 58g along with 20G, 60G to mention the ones I like the most) so the best move would be an F100 and as such I am on the market for one of those, here in Italy they go for about 250 off a private owner or in the 300-350 range off a shop, not in a rush, patiently looking for the right chance (which means sub 300!) but I think it has all I need to have fun shooting film with my preferred lenses (well there is also a couple of Z ones I love but that's another story...) and I hope this would cool down the idea to move to 6x7 and higher, at least for a while...
6x7 wise saw this Brazilian guy with a Mamiya RZ67ProII and I fell (again) in love with the brick but the prices are outrageous, recently found out about the Fuji GX680III with all the tilt and shift stuff, hmmm, tickling... unless I discovered the 4x5 ViewCamera world... ok, let's stick to 35mm film Nikon, F100 of the last batch and/or gently closing the film door with the latch pushed up, is that correct?
very interesting thread, I just put an HP5 400 roll into my F3 and took a few shots which I know will be disappointing by the time I eventually develop the film but it triggered back the pleasure of shooting film.
I also own my dad's original F with the unfortunately not working Photomic, what a camera that is! The F3 is not just an amazing photography tool but also a great object to look at (something to still be proud of as an Italian), along with the F also 4 preAi lenses which back in time with dad we had converted to be mounted on the F3, 28-50-85-200, none of them any great but recently tested the 50/2H on both the D850 and Z6II and it is a quite interesting lens.
Back to the F3 I wanted to get a better than the 50/2H or AF 50/1.4D (ouch) lens and found the 1.4Ai, I asked the vendor about the Ais and he showed me an Ai pretending it was an Ais, never mind, 190 euros, I just said "I'll think about it..." and walking back towards the docks to board the ferry to come back home I thought that rather than adding another lens on a body where I start to face issues with checking correct focus "why not an AF film camera which would probably cost same as the 50 and use my AF lenses"
As I own a few lenses in both D and G flavour what I love (85/1.4 and 58g along with 20G, 60G to mention the ones I like the most) so the best move would be an F100 and as such I am on the market for one of those, here in Italy they go for about 250 off a private owner or in the 300-350 range off a shop, not in a rush, patiently looking for the right chance (which means sub 300!) but I think it has all I need to have fun shooting film with my preferred lenses (well there is also a couple of Z ones I love but that's another story...) and I hope this would cool down the idea to move to 6x7 and higher, at least for a while...
6x7 wise saw this Brazilian guy with a Mamiya RZ67ProII and I fell (again) in love with the brick but the prices are outrageous, recently found out about the Fuji GX680III with all the tilt and shift stuff, hmmm, tickling... unless I discovered the 4x5 ViewCamera world... ok, let's stick to 35mm film Nikon, F100 of the last batch and/or gently closing the film door with the latch pushed up, is that correct?
Desmolicious wrote:
Yeah that 'can be used to hammer nails' line is ridiculous. I've heard it applied to many cameras including the FM2n.
You think your 'insert camera brand and model' camera is tough? Go outside and just drop it onto concrete. Or actually try to hammer nails with it..
But now let me give you an anecdote. A few years ago I was skateboarding with a Nikonos V. I mis-judged a kerb and went flying - totally face planted. My Nikonos also went flying, bounced a few times, then skidded down the street like a hockey puck.
Damage to it? A slight nick on one corner, and very slight scuffing. If this had been any one of my other cameras - Nikon F, F2, FM, Leicas, Minoltas, Pentaxes etc - it would have just broken parts. I still was really bummed out about my Nikonos because it was in perfect shape. Just immaculate.. Oh well.
Just pick up a Nikonos V - it really feels like a block of steel. An upside is that solid body really muffles the shutter sound. And yeah, you can hammer nails with it if you want. But just get a freakin hammer!...Show more →
Yeah, it hurts me inside when people deliberately have their Leicas out in the rain and argue that it's tough, and it'll run fine. Like sure it may still function, but you're getting moisture in the rangefinder and the internals and you'll get a nice layer of corrosion that you can't see
Fred Miranda wrote:
If I were to go for a Nikon, the F3 would be my choice. I'm drawn to its design, and I think it would complement AIS lenses really well. However, for 35mm film, I'll stick with Leica. If I decide to explore further, I'd consider a MF camera.
The F3, while visually appealing has what I consider to be a fatal flaw, and that's in the film loading system. It's all too easy, and this happened to me on more than one occasion, to lay the leader across the take-up spool, close the back and it's supposed to do the rest. Yeah, you THINK it is because out of the corner of your peripheral vision you see the rewind knob jerk a little with every frame and then your brain thinks it's actually winding the film, but you'd be oh so wrong. Then you get to your 38th or 40th frame and it hasn't hit the end of the roll and only then you realize the film never went through the camera. And even when you're aware of that design flaw, it'll still bite you in the ass because it doesn't happen every time and you get lazy and then, bam. This reason and this reason alone is reason enough to move on to another model. Well, there's the totally anemic 1/80th sync speed, which is the reason I bought an FE-2 with a motor, which is the body most of my famous 35mm (like Townes Van Zandt) images were shot with.
Unlike others here, I loved my F4 and used it exclusively with the Nikon Databack. Mostly I used that Databack to facilitate automatic exposure bracketing at 5 frames per second, or was it six.
Also had an F3 body with a Marty Forscher Polaroid back on it, which is kinda useless today but was indispensable back then. Probably sill have that relic laying around - the back, not the camera. Loved that you could get two 35mm Polaroid frames on one piece of Polaroid film by pulling the tab part way out.
Peter Figen wrote:
The F3, while visually appealing has what I consider to be a fatal flaw, and that's in the film loading system. It's all too easy, and this happened to me on more than one occasion, to lay the leader across the take-up spool, close the back and it's supposed to do the rest. Yeah, you THINK it is because out of the corner of your peripheral vision you see the rewind knob jerk a little with every frame and then your brain thinks it's actually winding the film, but you'd be oh so wrong. Then you get to your 38th or 40th frame and it hasn't hit the end of the roll and only then you realize the film never went through the camera. And even when you're aware of that design flaw, it'll still bite you in the ass because it doesn't happen every time and you get lazy and then, bam. This reason and this reason alone is reason enough to move on to another model. Well, there's the totally anemic 1/80th sync speed, which is the reason I bought an FE-2 with a motor, which is the body most of my famous 35mm (like Townes Van Zandt) images were shot with.
Unlike others here, I loved my F4 and used it exclusively with the Nikon Databack. Mostly I used that Databack to facilitate automatic exposure bracketing at 5 frames per second, or was it six.
Also had an F3 body with a Marty Forscher Polaroid back on it, which is kinda useless today but was indispensable back then. Probably sill have that relic laying around - the back, not the camera. Loved that you could get two 35mm Polaroid frames on one piece of Polaroid film by pulling the tab part way out.
Desmolicious wrote:
Are you sure you mean the F3? I have to thread the film leader into the take up spool on mine.
Absolutely the F3. Yes, you think you've threaded it in there and the rewind knob jumps and jerks while you shoot but the film does not go through the camera. Now, if you're taking your time and jamming it in there, it works fine, but if you're in a hurry, what I described will definitely bite you at some time. Absolutely the worst pro level camera Nikon ever made. I knew a lot of other photographers who had the same problem but most didn't want to admit it.
Peter Figen wrote:
Absolutely the F3. Yes, you think you've threaded it in there and the rewind knob jumps and jerks while you shoot but the film does not go through the camera. Now, if you're taking your time and jamming it in there, it works fine, but if you're in a hurry, what I described will definitely bite you at some time. Absolutely the worst pro level camera Nikon ever made. I knew a lot of other photographers who had the same problem but most didn't want to admit it.
Hmm, interesting. I haven't had that problem w my F3, but that is because I have the luxury to take my time loading, tensioning the rewind knob, watching it properly rotate when advanced etc. My FG however does seem to finickier which is surprising, I thought this process had been thought through decades ago!
Agree re the F4 - I loved mine but sold because too much stuff..
When I got my first F3 in 1992 I did f%ck up a film load the first time. I didn’t push the film leader in deep enough in the take up spool and it didn’t take. Lesson learned and never happened again.
It is certainly not the type where you just lay the leader over and close the back, you have to feed it in to the slot in the take-up spool.
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