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Archive 2023 · Which Nikon film body

  
 
snegron7
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p.6 #1 · Which Nikon film body




coralnut wrote:
Pound nails?!? Seriously?!?

I never had interest in the FM2 and similar Nikon consumer cameras for their outright durability, I was more interested in their extremely light weight, simple control interface, and the reduced electronics count to minimize the number of things that could go wrong in the field. I carried one next to an N8008 as an extremely lightweight backup as I expected the high tech circuit-laden new camera to be the one that would fail. I thought the compact nature and light weight of the FM2 would make it a good backup.

As it turned out, the plastic camera ended
...Show more


I have had the exact opposite experience with metal vs plastic cameras.

Back in 1984, when my FM2N was new, I dropped it and it landed prism-first on the ground. The body only suffered a minor ding, hotshoe bent, but the shutter was intact. The only thing tgat went bad was the electronics for the meter. The meter never worked again, but the rest of the camera still work well today (never had it cleaned or maintained in any way).

Prior to 1984, I had a Pentax K1000. One day I absent-mindedly left it on tge trunk of my car and drove off. The K1000 bounced seceral ties on the pavement. All it got was a few scratches; it continued working well without a problem.

Fast forward to the era of plastic marvels; two of my Nikon D70's failed me. One failed the day after I purchased it (BGLOD). The other failed when I was taking pics at an event; fog machine turned on and the D70 shut down with an error message. A little bit of mist caused it to malfunction!!

My older Nikon film bodies (Nikon S2 rangefinder from 1956, Nikon F from 1974, Nikon F3 from 1983, and my Nikon F2A) are still running smoothly.



Dec 15, 2023 at 03:23 PM
panos.v
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p.6 #2 · Which Nikon film body


snegron7 wrote:
I have had the exact opposite experience with metal vs plastic cameras.

Back in 1984, when my FM2N was new, I dropped it and it landed prism-first on the ground. The body only suffered a minor ding, hotshoe bent, but the shutter was intact. The only thing tgat went bad was the electronics for the meter. The meter never worked again, but the rest of the camera still work well today (never had it cleaned or maintained in any way).

Prior to 1984, I had a Pentax K1000. One day I absent-mindedly left it on tge trunk of my car and drove
...Show more

It really depends.

I dropped a F3 on concrete from the roof of a car. Bent the ISO dial. Worked fine, repaired and then all good.

Dropped a FM2n, dented the prism, all good.

Dropped a Hasselblad 553. After 3 trips to the shop it was still broken (the motor)

Dropped, banged, bashed and basically abused in every way the EOS Rebel 2000. Still works!

I looked at my M4 the wrong way and the range finder went out of alignment... (Ok maybe my kid dropped it from his hands so given he was 1m tall at that time that's hardly a half meter drop).

The m246 has taken a few bangs and survived.

Had a Nikon D2H (remember those!), landed on it me on top, a big rock underneath. D2H and 17-35 worked like nothing happened after I cleaned up all the mud from the lens and camera.

PS
I'm probably saying you don't want to buy a camera from me...



Dec 15, 2023 at 03:29 PM
andrewd01
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p.6 #3 · Which Nikon film body


panos.v wrote:
It really depends.

I dropped a F3 on concrete from the roof of a car. Bent the ISO dial. Worked fine, repaired and then all good.

Dropped a FM2n, dented the prism, all good.

Dropped a Hasselblad 553. After 3 trips to the shop it was still broken (the motor)

Dropped, banged, bashed and basically abused in every way the EOS Rebel 2000. Still works!

I looked at my M4 the wrong way and the range finder went out of alignment... (Ok maybe my kid dropped it from his hands so given he was 1m tall at that time that's hardly a half meter drop).

The
...Show more

I hope there’s no Ming vases in your house




Dec 15, 2023 at 04:00 PM
Desmolicious
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p.6 #4 · Which Nikon film body


I have a feeling Panos is unclear as to the purpose of a camera.

Repeat after me - they are not basketballs.



Dec 15, 2023 at 05:39 PM
rico
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p.6 #5 · Which Nikon film body


Not my first camera by a long shot, but the FM2 was my first 35mm SLR and I greatly enjoyed it as a travel cam. Bought when first released and I paired it with the ubiquitous 50/1.4 AiS. The single-digit F bodies were always too heavy and overbuilt for my purposes. If I ever revisit film Nikons, the only ones that appeal are the FG and FA. The Olympic FA special is gold-plated and looks awesome—unlike the gold Contax RTS that looks like it fell out of a pimp's Caddy!


Dec 16, 2023 at 06:48 PM
coralnut
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p.6 #6 · Which Nikon film body


Desmolicious wrote:
Maybe if someone let the AAs leak in the F4. That is the big thing about how much alkaline batteries suck.


Indeed. Last night I discovered that that nearly killed my old N8008/F-801.

I put that camera in storage when it became hard to find film processing. I've only seen it a couple of times in the past 20 years but I pulled it out yesterday because of the film forum threads here on FM. Uh oh -- I forgot to pull the batteries. They had all burst, with the expanding salts fracturing the battery carrier into little pieces and the pressure of the expanding solid chemicals flaking away the bottom of the battery compartment cowl. I had to dig the batts out with needle nose pliers and found a set of Duracell Ultra batteries that expired in 3/2013. Oops. Expensive misteak.

So I loaded up a spare battery tray and jammed it in without even detailing the battery compartment. I was surprised to find that the camera worked as normal. Wow. The only damage was the loss of one battery carrier and some chipping of the walls of the battery compartment at the base of the camera. The camera was still usable and ready to go.


I had recently mentioned in another thread how durable the plastic-fantastic prosumer cameras of the late 80s had turned out to be. I had mentioned that this same N8008 had survived a motorcycle wreck when it was new that destroyed my FM2N. Even with a 4 battery explosion that secreted enough solid expanding salts to fracture the base of the plastic body, the N8008 survived. I think I'll be taking it out soon.


We've spoken a lot in this thread about the joy of the manual focus film cameras and the high prices that they command today. I have to admit that I think there is some value to be found in the autofocusing film cameras as their AF compatibility gives me opportunity to deploy more of my lenses.

That said, I never really liked the sucky AF performance of my late 80s N8008 and F4. Things got a lot better in only a few more years and by the mid-90s the next generation of AF film cameras had much better AF performance. Lots of people like the F100, but don't forget about the N90/N90s (F90/F90X). By the mid/late 90s AF speed was remarkably faster. That era of cameras supports both AF-D and AF-S lenses as well (except for the G lenses in A and M modes).

Best of all the N90s can be had very cheaply. During the Great Film Selloff when KEH was dumping the N90 on ebay I bought a box of 4 of them for $50 just to put them in storage for the film resurgence. (I should have done that with a Hasselblad.) Sure, they cost a little more to buy today but they're still only a fraction of the cost of the cameras that we romanticize about. I just dug them out and they all seem to work fine. Compared to the "golden era" manual film cameras, the late 90s AF film cameras offer a lot of bang for the buck.

Considering that I have all of $50 in 4 of the N90s cameras, I won't have to lens-swap very often. I'll probably end up looking like that guy who has too many cameras hanging on his neck.



Dec 17, 2023 at 01:46 AM
Desmolicious
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p.6 #7 · Which Nikon film body


rico wrote:
Not my first camera by a long shot, but the FM2 was my first 35mm SLR and I greatly enjoyed it as a travel cam. Bought when first released and I paired it with the ubiquitous 50/1.4 AiS. The single-digit F bodies were always too heavy and overbuilt for my purposes. If I ever revisit film Nikons, the only ones that appeal are the FG and FA. The Olympic FA special is gold-plated and looks awesome—unlike the gold Contax RTS that looks like it fell out of a pimp's Caddy!


You should totally get back into film Nikons so I can sell you my near perfect FG.



Dec 17, 2023 at 02:07 AM
coralnut
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p.6 #8 · Which Nikon film body


OffTrail wrote:
I really hoped you guys would say "no, it's fine, just buy some beater off ebay."


But you CAN buy some beater off of ebay. I got a box of four N90S cameras that way.
You'll probably have better luck buying a late-era film AF camera this way, compared to one of the classic MF F series cameras.



Dec 17, 2023 at 02:49 AM
coralnut
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p.6 #9 · Which Nikon film body


Desmolicious wrote:
You should totally get back into film Nikons so I can sell you my near perfect FG.


Desmo the Film Enabler.

You convinced me to go to the storage unit this weekend and do some digging for some of my long lost gear.

Film Cameras found:
4x N90S -- working. Bulk eBay purchase
1x N8008 -- working... after the alkaline battery mess was cleaned out
1x FM2N -- destroyed in an MC wreck but saved for conversation
1x FM -- working. I forgot I even had this one

The N90S are going to be a great way to test my collection of chipped ZF.2 lenses on film. That should be just what it takes to verify my conviction about getting back into film processing, and maybe help me make up my mind about buying an F2 or F3.

I still haven't found my 120 TLR or my 35/120 developing tanks. I know that I kept them, it's just a question of finding them 30 years after hiding them somewhere...



Dec 17, 2023 at 02:57 AM
Desmolicious
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p.6 #10 · Which Nikon film body


I get better results from my AF Nikon SLRs than my MF ones. Not much of a surprise there.


Dec 17, 2023 at 03:24 AM
OffTrail
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p.6 #11 · Which Nikon film body


coralnut wrote:
But you CAN buy some beater off of ebay. I got a box of four N90S cameras that way.
You'll probably have better luck buying a late-era film AF camera this way, compared to one of the classic MF F series cameras.


I was mostly joking, but I will buy beaters locally.

Just this afternoon I've been working on an FE I got for $20. It worked for about two years until last week, when something finally broke. One $30 parts camera later, and I should have a working FE for $50 by the end of the week.



Dec 17, 2023 at 04:44 PM
coralnut
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p.6 #12 · Which Nikon film body


My plan all those years ago was to buy 4 junk cameras to get 4 spare battery holders for my N8008. Much to my amazement the N90S cameras were in great working condition. Now I need even more battery holders but they are impossible to find.


Dec 17, 2023 at 11:24 PM
OffTrail
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p.6 #13 · Which Nikon film body


madNbad wrote:
Congratulations on the M2! Give us an update when it arrives.
Careful with the door latch on the F100. If you don’t snap it shut it’ll be fine. I think Huss posted some instructions on how to keep your latch from breaking. There is also a guy making metal replacement latches.
Have fun!


Update:

Have had the M2 and shot it for all the Christmas get-togethers. I really enjoy the rangefinder setup. A wide FOV with frame lines makes a lot of sense to me and it feels like a moment-capturing machine. The camera is smooth, quiet, and not at all distracting.

On the whole, couldn't be happier with the M2. It fits into my lineup exactly how I'd hoped.

As for the F100, I'm glad I actually got another one. It's snappier than the N80 and with a better viewfinder, but quieter and smaller than the F5. It's a nice balance of features. Is it worth 4x as much as an N80? Well, I actually kind of think so. It's offering a lot of what the F5 and F6 do, but still at the sub-$200 price. Between F100 vs. N80, I think it comes down to comfort with bigger lenses and compatibility with Ai/Ai-S lenses. If a person doesn't need that, then the N80 makes a lot of sense. If they do, then the F100 probably would feel like a good buy.



Jan 01, 2024 at 01:02 PM
coralnut
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p.6 #14 · Which Nikon film body


> AI-S lenses

Which film camera? It depends on your lens needs. IIRC the F80 is one of the late AF SLR that broke backward-compatibility with AI/AI-S as it lacks the aperture sensing arm that's necessary for AI/AI-S metering. The F80 requires you to have a chipped AF lens to get metering. Almost all of the other enthusiast grade cameras from that era (N90) and just before it (N8008) have the AI/AI-S metering arm, and even some of the mid-grade consumer cameras (N6006) have it. The bottom-tier consumer grade cameras don't.

I could never make due with an F80 as I have a large collection of AI-S lenses. To maintain AI/AI-S compatibility I've always bought cameras that have the aperture sensing lever. You won't get matrix metering in the non-chipped lenses, but at least you'll have center-weighted and spot metering.

Here's a table that summarizes the camera-lens compatibility for Nikon. It's from Rockwell -- no flames, please!

Nikon Camera-Lens Compatibility



Jan 01, 2024 at 07:49 PM
Desmolicious
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p.6 #15 · Which Nikon film body


OffTrail wrote:
Update:

Have had the M2 and shot it for all the Christmas get-togethers. I really enjoy the rangefinder setup. A wide FOV with frame lines makes a lot of sense to me and it feels like a moment-capturing machine. The camera is smooth, quiet, and not at all distracting.

On the whole, couldn't be happier with the M2. It fits into my lineup exactly how I'd hoped.

As for the F100, I'm glad I actually got another one. It's snappier than the N80 and with a better viewfinder, but quieter and smaller than the F5. It's a nice balance of features. Is
...Show more

If you need AI/AI-S lens compatibility then the F100 definitely wins over the F80. But as I also have other Nikon slrs that work with AI-S lenses I replaced my F100s with F80s. I prefer the size of the 80, that it has a built in flash but most of all the grid pattern on the focus screen that can be turned on or off.





Jan 02, 2024 at 12:56 AM
bjhurley
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p.6 #16 · Which Nikon film body


coralnut wrote:
Here's a table that summarizes the camera-lens compatibility for Nikon. It's from Rockwell -- no flames, please!

Nikon Camera-Lens Compatibility


This is great, but the thing that keeps stumping me is that I don't have any Nikon lenses, just a couple of third-party lenses that have a Nikon mount. I don't know what to look for in the mounts of those two lenses to be able to figure out which Nikon film bodies they'd be compatible with.

One of them is a Tokina ATX Pro 28-70 f 2.6-2.8 zoom (the Angénieux design) from the 1990s, and the other is a Zeiss 35/1.4 Distagon ZF.2 lens designed for use on digital full-frame cameras. The Zeiss is all-manual; the Tokina has a switch for manual or autofocus; realistically I'd probably never use the autofocus. They both have manual aperture rings. I use both lenses pretty frequently on my Sony mirrorless camera and it might be nice to have a film body for them as well.




Jan 02, 2024 at 03:01 AM
coralnut
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p.6 #17 · Which Nikon film body


Huss brings up a point that is very important that I didn't even consider -- on-camera flash. OCF is extremely important to me, because if my camera doesn't have it then I'm forced to carry a separate speedlight, which is such a PITA that I'm not likely to do it on a casual photography jaunt. To me, the requirement to carry a separate speedlight and an SLR turns a simple outing into a photography expedition. If I don't have flash with me the result could be a serious handicap. I've heard Huss mention that every P&S camera that you carry needs to have a flash. He certainly makes use of it in his photography, and sometimes it makes all the difference.

One of the reasons that I have stuck with the D810 instead of the D850 for my digital needs is that the D810 has OCF and the D850 does not. Yes, it's mounted too close to the axis of the lens, but having a close-to-axis OCF is much more convenient than not having any OCF.

OCF ends up being a very important variable that you have to account for. I always consider it when shopping for a digital camera, but I haven't been thinking the same way when it comes to film cameras just because I've been conditioned by years of old camera designs not to worry about OCF on an SLR. I need to get my mind right on that. There's much to be said for a P&S that has OCF.




Jan 02, 2024 at 07:33 AM
coralnut
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p.6 #18 · Which Nikon film body


bjhurley wrote:
This is great, but the thing that keeps stumping me is that I don't have any Nikon lenses, just a couple of third-party lenses that have a Nikon mount. I don't know what to look for in the mounts of those two lenses to be able to figure out which Nikon film bodies they'd be compatible with.



  1. Both of those lenses are AI-S compatible -- look at the AI, AI-S column on the page previously linked
  2. The Tokina requires a screw-drive AF nikon camera for AF to work, will work fine on a MF camera
  3. Both lenses have chips that fully support Center-Weighted, Spot and Matrix Metering if the camera supports it


Sorry, I thought that by owning Nikon gear you would be familiar with the Nikon ecosystem. If you're a Sony user who has adapted Nikon lenses, then none of the lens variations matter on Sony because none of their features are supported. When you go to mount them on a Nikon camera, however, compatibility becomes important b/c Nikon used mechanical sensors on the different cameras to identify lenses. Prior to the era of electronics all of the communication between camera and lens was mechanical.

One has to be careful about what kind of adapter you use to mount these Nikon-compatible lenses. There are adapters out there that will destroy the electronic interface pins.

Here is a page that explains the differences in the Nikon metering systems (and how to identify them) from the lens' perspective. Unfortunately I can't get the images to load, hopefully it will work better for you:

https://www.keh.com/shop/blog/nikon-lenses-non-ai-ai-ai-s-and-aid

Here's another page that might work better:
https://mecam.me/nikon-ai-lenses-the-ultimate-guide/
https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/nikortek.htm#ais
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_F-mount

One of them is a Tokina ATX Pro 28-70 f 2.6-2.8 zoom (the Angénieux design) from the 1990s, and the other is a Zeiss 35/1.4 Distagon ZF.2 lens designed for use on digital full-frame cameras. The Zeiss is all-manual; the Tokina has a switch for manual or autofocus; realistically I'd probably never use the autofocus. They both have manual aperture rings. I use both lenses pretty frequently on my Sony mirrorless camera and it might be nice to have a film body for them as well.



As it turns out I own both of those lenses. I use them both on SLR and DSLR Nikon cameras.

The Zeiss is an AI-S type lens that has an AF metering chip but no AF capability.
The Tokina is an AF era autofocus lens, supports AI-S metering as well as matrix metering due to the chip, and screw-drive AF.

To get the most out of them, choose any Nikon film body that has AI-S metering capabilities or Matrix metering capabilities. If you want AF then you need an AF body from the 1990s that has screw-drive AF.

Just about any F-mount Nikon film camera will work with those lenses (they are all F-mount). choose the camera for it's desired features. The important exception is the N80 that won't meter with AI-S lenses, but both Zeiss and Tokina added chips to those lenses to make them fully metering compliant, with the result that you should read the column titled "AF, AF-D (screw)" for those lenses.

Edited on Jan 02, 2024 at 08:24 AM · View previous versions



Jan 02, 2024 at 08:02 AM
bjhurley
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p.6 #19 · Which Nikon film body


coralnut wrote:
To get the most out of them, choose any Nikon film body that has AI-S metering capabilities or Matric metering capabilities. If you want AF then you need an AF body from the 1990s that has screw-drive AF.


Thanks so much for all that useful info!

I don't care about AF but matrix metering would be nice, and ideally a camera that has mirror lockup and is also not too loud (my Minolta SR-T 303b stops traffic when I press the shutter).

Based on those simple criteria, do you have any specific recommendations?

The other option I've been considering is the original F or F2 and meter manually, since you can get a waist-level finder for those cameras (with magnifier) and I seem to have lost the ability to accurately focus with the split prism, at least based on experience with my Minoltas, despite having spent many years shooting a film SLR when I was younger.



Jan 02, 2024 at 08:23 AM
coralnut
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p.6 #20 · Which Nikon film body


The more features you choose, the more you paint yourself into a corner.

Regular metering came along in the F2 (MF era), Matrix in the F4 (AF era). Matrix metering forces you into the AF film era, F4 and N8008 onwards. That pushes you into heavy cameras, with batteries and AF motors, which is a high price to pay IMO. If you don't want Matrix and AF then the pre-AF cameras to look at would include the various generations of FE, FM, FA, etc., amateur flim cameras.

I would have no problems using those lenses on my FM or FM2, or on my N8008 or N90. The AF era cameras are a lot heavier. That may or may not matter to you.

Mirror lock-up is something you'll have to examine on a camera-by-camera basis. You'll find it in the F series professional cameras, but the way it was implemented changed from model to model. That's a very idiosyncratic feature you're asking about.

That first rockwell page does a good job of listing all of the metering variations in the cameras, but does not answer the mirror lockup question.



Jan 02, 2024 at 08:55 AM
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