Great info. Thank you. Still conflicted as I already own two film bodies. Perhaps a 6x7 to try some landscapes may be a better option for me.
Desmolicious wrote:
If you're getting an F2 - yes the F2AS is the one to get. The meter is excellent.
BUT.... these are old cameras now and the meter resistor ring on them may have worn out giving unreliable/jumpy readings.
Happened to mine and Sover Wong repaired it. It is so common he makes replacement rings:
It is much better to get one that has had that fix now, than send him one in for repair as his repair backlog is several years long I think.
Sover does say he sells fully serviced/repaired F2s, so he would be a really good place to check for a camera before going elsewhere.
I also have a Sover Wonged F2 w/ plain prism - the Leica M-A of F2s if you will - but the F2As is a better shooter like the Leica MP, because the excellent meter is there if you need it.
This past w/e I shot four rolls through my F3P. Zero through my F2As. Once you start using the F3 it is hard to put down as it is fun to pump film through it, using the super 80/20 meter pattern. I would not have shot so much if I used my F2As as the ergos are not as good and it kinda slows you down - for better or for worse.
I also shot one roll through my FG, because I hadn't used it for a while, and did not enjoy it. So that one I gotta sell....Show more →
Yes, I do well without meters when shooting with my M2. Perhaps it’s the way to go if I get a Nikon body.
OffTrail wrote:
Generally speaking, the F2AS is a little more valuable. The DP-12 head is what you're buying. LED readout, better EV range, and apparently more reliable cells.
While meters obviously make a lot of sense, the F2 in particular does incur a size/weight/balance penalty just to have it. So if it's something you view as "cool to have sometimes," does that imply a certain level of comfort in working without one? If so, I think you go DE-1 and just rely on one of the many accessory meters out there. Or a phone.
Not to talk you out of an F2AS, though. There's a certain cool factor to the heft of a metered F2, and of course it's added flexibility. ...Show more →
Fred Miranda wrote:
Great info. Thank you. Still conflicted as I already own two film bodies. Perhaps a 6x7 to try some landscapes may be a better option for me.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Yes, I do well without meters when shooting with my M2. Perhaps it’s the way to go if I get a Nikon body.
Well first off, 6x7 is always a good idea. Just a blanket statement, no context required. "6x7? Always good." And a Pentax 67 will handle an awful lot like a big F2
On the F2 front, if you're comfortable without the meter, then I personally feel that the DE-1 handling wins out. I'm shooting a plain-prism F a lot, and I know I wouldn't be if had a metered head. When I got my first F2 with a meter, I just couldn't honestly see myself carrying it everywhere like I would an F3 or FE for my metered needs.
Also, M2... How do you like it? I'm really wanting to get the Voigtlander 40 Nokton in front of some film, and an M2 seems like a great way to do that. It would keep the simplicity and uncluttered viewfinder that I like so much about the F, and it would have the frame line options to work with a 40. Seems like a good idea, but I don't know a lot about Leica, or RF's for that matter.
OffTrail wrote:
Well first off, 6x7 is always a good idea. Just a blanket statement, no context required. "6x7? Always good." And a Pentax 67 will handle an awful lot like a big F2
On the F2 front, if you're comfortable without the meter, then I personally feel that the DE-1 handling wins out. I'm shooting a plain-prism F a lot, and I know I wouldn't be if had a metered head. When I got my first F2 with a meter, I just couldn't honestly see myself carrying it everywhere like I would an F3 or FE for my metered needs.
Also, M2... How do you like it? I'm really wanting to get the Voigtlander 40 Nokton in front of some film, and an M2 seems like a great way to do that. It would keep the simplicity and uncluttered viewfinder that I like so much about the F, and it would have the frame line options to work with a 40. Seems like a good idea, but I don't know a lot about Leica, or RF's for that matter....Show more →
I love the M2 just as much as the MP. I honestly see very little difference between the two since I don't rely on the MP's metering unless shooting indoors and even then, it's not hard to know the apertures I need for 1/60s and 1/125s shutter speeds in low light and ISO 400 or 800. The MP's viewfinder is brighter and more crispy but no complaints about the M2. If I could only have one, I think it would be the MP. Getting the Nikon is nice but it would just make my gear heavy and bulky with no change in quality and if going that way perhaps a Mamiya 7 or Pentax 67 is the way to go.
OffTrail wrote:
Well first off, 6x7 is always a good idea. Just a blanket statement, no context required. "6x7? Always good." And a Pentax 67 will handle an awful lot like a big F2
On the F2 front, if you're comfortable without the meter, then I personally feel that the DE-1 handling wins out. I'm shooting a plain-prism F a lot, and I know I wouldn't be if had a metered head. When I got my first F2 with a meter, I just couldn't honestly see myself carrying it everywhere like I would an F3 or FE for my metered needs.
Also, M2... How do you like it? I'm really wanting to get the Voigtlander 40 Nokton in front of some film, and an M2 seems like a great way to do that. It would keep the simplicity and uncluttered viewfinder that I like so much about the F, and it would have the frame line options to work with a 40. Seems like a good idea, but I don't know a lot about Leica, or RF's for that matter....Show more →
The M2 has the best viewfinder. Uncluttered with lines for 35, 50 and 90. The spool loading is very secure and with a little practice the camera can be loaded quickly. The external dial frame counter is easy to set. Move the advance lever to the half cock position and it unlocks the dial. The lever rewind switch is a better choice than the button. The early button rewind models required the user to keep the button depressed when rewinding the film. The post rewind is a little slow but is very sturdy.
I have a 35 1.4 Nokton Classic SC V2 and love it! It's become my go to lens and sometimes I feel bad about not using the others more. I believe the 40 brings up the 50 framelines and that will get you close enough. It would be a great combination. Send it to DAG and it'll be the smoothest camera you will have ever used.
Fred Miranda wrote:
.. Getting the Nikon is nice but it would just make my gear heavy and bulky with no change in quality and if going that way perhaps a Mamiya 7 or Pentax 67 is the way to go.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Great info. Thank you. Still conflicted as I already own two film bodies. Perhaps a 6x7 to try some landscapes may be a better option for me.
I consider my Plaubel Makina 670 an honorary Nikon with it's 80mm/2.8 Nikkor lens. The Plaubel is an excellent, hand-holdable 6x7. Yes, you give up the interchangeable lenses of a Pentax 67, but it's a LOT lighter, and quiet (no gigantic mirror slapping up & down). The rangefinder is bright, the built-in meter is convenient, and the whole camera collapsed fits into a small satchel. No need to seek out the Plaubel 670 since 220 film is a gonner now, and the other advatages of the 670 (more gripable body and focusing ring, more reliable 2-stroke film advance) are not that big a deal.
As for a meterless Nikon body, if I had the funds it would be an F2 Titan: It looks thoroughly "modern" (at least in an 80's sense of the word) and refined. Fully mechanical, solid as a rock, and no way it will ever be less than a legend!
grantgoodes wrote:
I consider my Plaubel Makina 670 an honorary Nikon with it's 80mm/2.8 Nikkor lens. The Plaubel is an excellent, hand-holdable 6x7. Yes, you give up the interchangeable lenses of a Pentax 67, but it's a LOT lighter, and quiet (no gigantic mirror slapping up & down). The rangefinder is bright, the built-in meter is convenient, and the whole camera collapsed fits into a small satchel. No need to seek out the Plaubel 670 since 220 film is a gonner now, and the other advatages of the 670 (more gripable body and focusing ring, more reliable 2-stroke film advance) are not that big a deal.
As for a meterless Nikon body, if I had the funds it would be an F2 Titan: It looks thoroughly "modern" (at least in an 80's sense of the word) and refined. Fully mechanical, solid as a rock, and no way it will ever be less than a legend! ...Show more →
grantgoodes wrote..
As for a meterless Nikon body, if I had the funds it would be an F2 Titan: It looks thoroughly "modern" (at least in an 80's sense of the word) and refined. Fully mechanical, solid as a rock, and no way it will ever be less than a legend!
Anyone interested in an F2 Titan should check out Sover Wong's site first. He details how to avoid buying counterfeit ones i.e. regular cheap F2s dressed up to look like Titans for $1000 more.
madNbad wrote:
The M2 has the best viewfinder. Uncluttered with lines for 35, 50 and 90. The spool loading is very secure and with a little practice the camera can be loaded quickly. The external dial frame counter is easy to set. Move the advance lever to the half cock position and it unlocks the dial. The lever rewind switch is a better choice than the button. The early button rewind models required the user to keep the button depressed when rewinding the film. The post rewind is a little slow but is very sturdy.
I have a 35 1.4 Nokton Classic SC V2 and love it! It's become my go to lens and sometimes I feel bad about not using the others more. I believe the 40 brings up the 50 framelines and that will get you close enough. It would be a great combination. Send it to DAG and it'll be the smoothest camera you will have ever used....Show more →
Thanks for the info. I don't mind a fiddly loading/unloading process, as long as the actual shooting process is nice. The 35/50/90 frame lines are a big reason why I like the idea of the M2, because really, those about the only three focal lengths I think I'd ever "need."
I was actually looking at the B/S, and there's one that the seller says was worked on by DAG in the summer. $1800 or so. I was seeing some okay looking ones on eBay for around $1400-$1500, likely without any sort of CLA. Would you look at getting one already worked on, or look for a cheaper one and expect to send it out later?
Fred Miranda wrote:
I love the M2 just as much as the MP. I honestly see very little difference between the two since I don't rely on the MP's metering unless shooting indoors and even then, it's not hard to know the apertures I need for 1/60s and 1/125s shutter speeds in low light and ISO 400 or 800. The MP's viewfinder is brighter and more crispy but no complaints about the M2. If I could only have one, I think it would be the MP. Getting the Nikon is nice but it would just make my gear heavy and bulky with no change in quality and if going that way perhaps a Mamiya 7 or Pentax 67 is the way to go....Show more →
Lens choice would be the biggest thing in the F2's favor, but that would obviously depend on if you'd ever choose the lenses that are available to you. Telezooms, macros, fisheyes, stuff like that. But you're right about 6x7, that would definitely give you a noticeable boost in IQ. And some film stocks just come alive in 120.
OffTrail wrote:
Thanks for the info. I don't mind a fiddly loading/unloading process, as long as the actual shooting process is nice. The 35/50/90 frame lines are a big reason why I like the idea of the M2, because really, those about the only three focal lengths I think I'd ever "need."
I was actually looking at the B/S, and there's one that the seller says was worked on by DAG in the summer. $1800 or so. I was seeing some okay looking ones on eBay for around $1400-$1500, likely without any sort of CLA. Would you look at getting one already worked on, or look for a cheaper one and expect to send it out later?...Show more →
The M2 in B/S is a bargain. It’s a late run with the lever rewind switch and a self timer, plus DAG service. It’s a camera you can use for years!
OffTrail wrote:
I was actually looking at the B/S, and there's one that the seller says was worked on by DAG in the summer. $1800 or so. I was seeing some okay looking ones on eBay for around $1400-$1500, likely without any sort of CLA. Would you look at getting one already worked on, or look for a cheaper one and expect to send it out later?
You will really need a CLA on any film Leica that hasn't had one in recent years. A simple CLA isn't that expensive, but a more involved overhaul or complete overhaul can be $300 to $500. I bought an M2-R (rare model, only 2,000 made, but Fred's is similar in that it has the "tulip" rapid loading mechanism used in later Leicas; his tulip must have been added later) earlier this year and after a month of use I realized the shutter was dragging at high speeds. It hadn't been serviced in 15 years or more so I sent it to DAG for a complete overhaul. He had to replace the second shutter curtain, which was breaking down. This is a common problem on these cameras and you'll know right away if it's happening as any frames shot at high shutter speeds will be underexposed on one side and overexposed on the other, and adjacent frames to the overexposed side will look as if they had light leaks.
So I'd say factor another $500 into your purchase price if you buy a film Leica that hasn't been serviced in a long time or that needs some work, and send it out soon after you receive it. The experience after a CLA is much better. My shutter is very quiet now and the whole camera operates like a Swiss watch.
OffTrail wrote:
I really hoped you guys would say "no, it's fine, just buy some beater off ebay."
The film forum was a terrible idea.
If you don't actually already have any M lenses, there's another option to consider: LTM. Those cameras and lenses are cheaper but still excellent.
I have the Canon P as well as the Leica M2-R, and the Canon is my preferred choice. Loading film is easier, you can do double exposures easily if you want to, the build quality is fantastic, and for me at least the camera sits more comfortably in my hand; I find the Leica a bit small. I have long fingers. The only downside to the Canon P is the fuzzy rangefinder patch, which takes some getting used to, but it's perfectly usable and I rarely miss focus now. It's set up with 35, 50, and 100mm framelines, and I already had Canon LTM lenses in those focal lengths. I guess the other downside is that those framelines are always visible: with the Leica the framelines will change based on the lens you have mounted and only one is visible at a time, which makes for a better shooting experience. But the whole Canon package (camera plus three lenses) would probably cost you less than just the Leica without any lenses.
Also, the Canon has a metal shutter, not cloth like the Leica, so you don't have to worry as much about accidentally burning a hole in your shutter if the lens is pointed toward the sun at smaller apertures.
OffTrail wrote:
I really hoped you guys would say "no, it's fine, just buy some beater off ebay."
The film forum was a terrible idea.
In 2013, I swapped a serviced IIIc and some cash for a M2. Sent it out for service and when it came back the “Bulb” setting didn’t work. The same tech tried again, it still didn’t work. Took it to a local shop that straightened the actuator arm the first tech had bent and sorta got the Bulb setting working about 90% of the time. I loved the camera but after years of frustration, finally sent it to DAG. Don told me it had never been properly lubricated. It was smooth, quiet and a dream to use for the two weeks before it was sold (along with my M6 TTL Millennium and several lenses) to raise money for a home improvement project. I spent way more on that camera than I should have. That’s why the one in B/S is a bargain.
OffTrail wrote:
I really hoped you guys would say "no, it's fine, just buy some beater off ebay."
The film forum was a terrible idea.
Remember, a film camera is just a box that holds film and you can attach a lens to. Plenty of cheap, reliable, excellent options if you're not obsessed with having a Leica
