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Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated

  
 
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


I wanted to share a quick test demonstrating how well the Cobalt Portra 400 film simulation compares to the actual Kodak film. I used the same settings for both cameras (exposure at 1/1000s, f/2.8, and ISO 400).
I found that the Cobalt profile closely resembled the Negative Lab Pro settings, with the color profile set to "Noritsu" and the tone profile set to "Cinematic Rich".

Also, in LR, I included the Cobalt grain setting specific to Portra 400 film but with a higher amount to match the actual film more closely. I'm planning to do a similar test for Ektar100 and Fuijfilm Superia 400 next.




  LEICA M10-R    Leica 50mm f/2 Summicron Rigid lens    50mm    f/2.8    1/1000s    400 ISO    0.0 EV  







LEICA MP | Leica 50mm f/2 Summicron Rigid lens | 50mm | f/2.8 | 1/1000s | 400 ISO






100 crop comparison




Nov 28, 2023 at 07:49 PM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


Very cool.

If you look at your first two images, it seems that you have a little scanning light source flare on the film image.
Check the bottom left and right corners - it should be dark green (I assume) like the digital image.

It is remarkable how similar the images look.



Nov 28, 2023 at 08:16 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


Desmolicious wrote:
Very cool.

If you look at your first two images, it seems that you have a little scanning light source flare on the film image.
Check the bottom left and right corners - it should be dark green (I assume) like the digital image.

It is remarkable how similar the images look.


Yes, thanks for mentioning this. I will make sure there is no light coming from the sides next time I scan negatives! This could be what's happening here.



Nov 28, 2023 at 08:42 PM
Nushi
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


Much of it looks very similar. To my eyes the main difference is that the film shows more blue in some areas. I don't think it's just a white balance issue because some tones are very similar.

Compare the columns on the balcony and some of the shaded areas. Look for instance at the soft shadows cast by the Santa and the wall mounted light fitting. The driveway is also very different.



Nov 29, 2023 at 01:18 PM
Mitch Alland
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


Fred Miranda wrote:
I wanted to share a quick test demonstrating how well the Cobalt Portra 400 film simulation...


Do you have the newer Cobalt Elite Porta simulation to compare to as well? My impression is that Elite film simulations have still more accuracy.




Nov 29, 2023 at 08:57 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


Fred Miranda wrote:
I wanted to share a quick test demonstrating how well the Cobalt Portra 400 film simulation compares to the actual Kodak film. I used the same settings for both cameras (exposure at 1/1000s, f/2.8, and ISO 400).
I found that the Cobalt profile closely resembled the Negative Lab Pro settings, with the color profile set to "Noritsu" and the tone profile set to "Cinematic Rich".

Also, in LR, I included the Cobalt grain setting specific to Portra 400 film but with a higher amount to match the actual film more closely. I'm planning to do a similar test for Ektar100 and
...Show more

Very cool!.

Mastin Labs and RNI (Really Nice Images) make some great film simulations as well. Mastin's are LR/C1 presets, the RNI for LR are profile-based, and the RNI for C1 are presets.

https://mastinlabs.com

https://reallyniceimages.com

Here is some of RNI's marketing mumbo-jumbo:

– RNI All Films 5 incorporates real film colour profiles. This enables really sophisticated and precise colour transformations which are far beyond what's been possible with Lightroom adjustments alone.

– Unlike typical LUT packages, RNI All Films 5 not only transforms colours but also achieves more natural film-like tonal response by using otherwise hidden data from your RAW files.

– With RNI All Films 5 your highlights will never clip, no matter how far you push them.

– You can tune down the strength of your film look, or even push beyond 100% in some cases. The adjustment is made smoothly and natively to your Adobe software.



Nov 29, 2023 at 09:45 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


Mitch Alland wrote:
Do you have the newer Cobalt Elite Porta simulation to compare to as well? My impression is that Elite film simulations have still more accuracy.


Yes, I used the Elite Portra profile. Achieving 100% accuracy is challenging because it depends on how I scan and edit the film. I used a digital camera for scanning with a daytime white balance setting, and the Negative Lab Pro plugin in Lightroom for processing. Keep in mind, I applied several custom settings that affected the final result. I found that Cobalt profile provided similar results compared to the film version.



Nov 30, 2023 at 01:36 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


Very cool indeed - photos look nearly indistinguishable. That's the advantage of digital color photography - with the right settings, any kind of color saturation/gamut can be obtained in PP. Manual tweaking in LR or PS can be cumbersome at times to achieve a specific color film look, filters can definitely help there a lot.

Not to bring back the old film vs digital discussion, but for me personally film stands out in aspects which can't be obtained with digital at all. For example getting specific halo effects around light sources - I am not aware that digital filters can simulate the same. Also that film registers light bending around in high contrast areas - digital is much more limited here due to its linear reception of light on the sensor. These are two main reasons why I keep shooting B&W films. Last but not least grain - a very subjective part, some prefer it others don't. Digital emulations of film grain have become better but IMO it is still not the same. But honestly, who looks so closely on the grain structure in a print? These are just a few technical aspects mentioned - not even mentioning the different workflow (and fun) shooting film for some.



Nov 30, 2023 at 08:46 AM
meditations
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


Love this! I recently learned of Steve Yedlin's (cinematographer) Display Prep Demo (write up here) which aims to show how digital can completely match the "film look". I definitely buy into the romanticism of film (especially moving film!) but his work is undeniable.


Nov 30, 2023 at 10:11 AM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


meditations wrote:
Love this! I recently learned of Steve Yedlin's (cinematographer) Display Prep Demo (write up here) which aims to show how digital can completely match the "film look". I definitely buy into the romanticism of film (especially moving film!) but his work is undeniable.


I am basically 100% a film shooter, but I am impressed by the film profiles.
But, that is not what makes film photography what it is. As well as the whole process you get one chance at it. You have selected your film, you have made your exposure, you have developed your film. You have a physical image that you are holding in your hand.
With the digital process - click a button, pick your profiles. Don’t like that one? Pick another? Messed up the exposure? Who cares the sensor’s dynamic range will take care of it etc.

I have a couple of digital cameras and they are amazing. They make much more ‘sense’ from a practical and logical point of view. But I don’t get much satisfaction from that. I wish I did as photography would be cheaper for me!



Nov 30, 2023 at 10:37 AM
 


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meditations
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


Desmolicious wrote:
I am basically 100% a film shooter, but I am impressed by the film profiles.
But, that is not what makes film photography what it is. As well as the whole process you get one chance at it. You have selected your film, you have made your exposure, you have developed your film. You have a physical image that you are holding in your hand.
With the digital process - click a button, pick your profiles. Don’t like that one? Pick another? Messed up the exposure? Who cares the sensor’s dynamic range will take care of it etc.

I have a couple of
...Show more

Yeah I totally agree, it's the same reason I have a completely impractical vinyl collection. I don't develop my own film (yet) but it's also so satisfying when you get back a bunch of rolls scanned and see what you got, vs. the instant feedback of digital. I guess that's why -D models fetch extra for a simulated version of that.

That said, similar to analog audio where you're losing some of that romantic magic if you end up listening to it via a fully digitized stack, ultimately today we end up mostly seeing film after digital scanning on a screen with its own color profile, pixel density and other quirks. Now contact printing and analog enlargement, that could be fun



Nov 30, 2023 at 01:29 PM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


Yah, I cannot wait until I get a darkroom again.


Nov 30, 2023 at 01:38 PM
chez
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


meditations wrote:
Yeah I totally agree, it's the same reason I have a completely impractical vinyl collection. I don't develop my own film (yet) but it's also so satisfying when you get back a bunch of rolls scanned and see what you got, vs. the instant feedback of digital. I guess that's why -D models fetch extra for a simulated version of that.

That said, similar to analog audio where you're losing some of that romantic magic if you end up listening to it via a fully digitized stack, ultimately today we end up mostly seeing film after digital scanning on a screen
...Show more

Yep, if your end result is a digital image…just start out with a digital image.



Nov 30, 2023 at 02:13 PM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


chez wrote:
Yep, if your end result is a digital image…just start out with a digital image.


And true to form Chez chimes in again promoting digital photography on the film forum!

The topic here is how close a digital film profile is to the real thing. Flipping Chez's argument - why shoot digital and use a digital profile if you can just shoot film?

The only time a digital image looks like a film image that as been scanned is if it as been heavily manipulated with post production applying profiles. If that is your thing - more power to you.

But most of us who actually still shoot film don't care that you can do that. Great - go ahead if that's your thing. But you don't see us on the Sony/Nikon/Canon forums telling people they should just shoot film if they want a film look, do you?

And we get it, you used to shoot film and are now very happy to no longer have to do it. But guess what? Everyone over the age of 40 used to shoot film. There is nothing about having done it in the past that makes anyone exceptional - that's all there was.
The difference now is that for many of us we still enjoy shooting film, and we also enjoy shooting digital.

Having digital profiles to manipulate images is a fun tool. Not a reason to no longer shoot film.



Nov 30, 2023 at 02:35 PM
chez
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


Desmolicious wrote:
And true to form Chez chimes in again promoting digital photography on the film forum!

The topic here is how close a digital film profile is to the real thing. Flipping Chez's argument - why shoot digital and use a digital profile if you can just shoot film?

The only time a digital image looks like a film image that as been scanned is if it as been heavily manipulated with post production applying profiles. If that is your thing - more power to you.

But most of us who actually still shoot film don't care that you can do that. Great -
...Show more

Don't get so excited. It's just my opinion in that if the ultimate result is a digital image, with the onslaught of great profiles and more coming, I just don't see the need to shoot film and then go through the hassle of digitizing the film to just create a digital file that can be created with much more flexibility.

I can see if one also make analog prints, but from what I see here, the majority don't make prints from their film and just digitize the negatives. I can also see if people love the nostalgia about shooting film and have fun...but if your goal is a digital image, I think there are better ways of getting there.

Note, my interest in this is the actual digital process of creating images that can replicate film photos...which is what this thread is about. I have to ask you...since this thread is about digital images...why are you even commenting on it?



Nov 30, 2023 at 03:20 PM
meditations
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


IMO, like many things in life, the 300 IQ response to this X vs Y is "both good".

I shot film for the first time in ~20 years this year and I absolutely love it. It's just different. It's not practical, but the process, tactility, different choices involved vs. shooting digital make it something special, and it will always be special.



Nov 30, 2023 at 03:25 PM
andrewd01
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


Maybe Cobalt could add light horizontal scratches across the frame to achieve the ultimate modern Leica film shooting experience?

just kidding



Nov 30, 2023 at 03:41 PM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


andrewd01 wrote:
Maybe Cobalt could add light horizontal scratches across the frame to achieve the ultimate modern Leica film shooting experience?

just kidding


there are instagram filters etc that do that!



Nov 30, 2023 at 06:11 PM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


meditations wrote:
IMO, like many things in life, the 300 IQ response to this X vs Y is "both good".

I shot film for the first time in ~20 years this year and I absolutely love it. It's just different. It's not practical, but the process, tactility, different choices involved vs. shooting digital make it something special, and it will always be special.


There is nothing practical about it. But I - and I assume most everyone who spends time on this forum - do it because of the enjoyment we get out of it.

I find the whole process almost therapeutic.



Nov 30, 2023 at 06:30 PM
bjhurley
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Portra 400: Leica MP vs Leica M10-R Simulated


retrofocus wrote:
Not to bring back the old film vs digital discussion, but for me personally film stands out in aspects which can't be obtained with digital at all. For example getting specific halo effects around light sources - I am not aware that digital filters can simulate the same.


I'm amazed at what the cheap phone apps like Hipstamatic and Tintype can do, though, in terms of halation.

This was shot with my iPhone SE and the Hipstamatic app; I guess it's my facsimile of a point-and-shoot film camera and I can even do double exposures with the Hipstamatic app. I can tell it's not the real thing but the images have fooled quite a few people including a professional film photographer...I just like the way they look but I enjoy shooting film more.

Nightwalking by Brad Hurley, on Flickr

Evening fog double exposure by Brad Hurley, on Flickr

These were shot with the tintype app:

Protests by Brad Hurley, on Flickr

Protester by Brad Hurley, on Flickr

Pilé-menu by Brad Hurley, on Flickr




Nov 30, 2023 at 06:44 PM
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