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Archive 2023How long do you think a latent image lasts on undeveloped film?
p.6 #1How long do you think a latent image lasts on undeveloped film?
coralnut wrote:
.. One of the subjects that he discusses is latent image stability. In a nutshell, it's caused by manufacturers cheaping out on $ilver when they make the film.
That may explain why the Agfa APX 25 was a complete failure.
.. One of the subjects that he discusses is latent image stability. In a nutshell, it's caused by manufacturers cheaping out on $ilver when they make the film.
That may explain why the Agfa APX 25 was a complete failure.
Dec 19, 2023 at 07:34 PM
p.6 #2How long do you think a latent image lasts on undeveloped film?
Yes, it seems that there are a lot of films out there that fail due to cutting corners / manufacturing cost containment or the difficulty involved in adding a new layer to a film production line to create a new film.
The Kodak videos in Fred's thread illustrate how insanely complicated it is to manufacture film, and gives an insight on how expensive it would be to change a film's formulation. The laminar flow waterfall section of the video suggests that it may be impossible to modify a production line to add additional layers, which could explain why some manufacturers try marketing film that has a layer left out. It may just be that there's a limit to how many layers their factory can apply, as changing the design of a manufacturing line could cost millions if not billions. It explains why Kodak is so firmly entrenched as the premier manufacturer. the Kodak plant cost billions to build, and the sunk costs of building such a plant effectively keeps out competitors.
The Agfa appears to have cut corners in silver costs at the expense of latent imaging stability.
The Harman Phoenix 200 hasn't been well-received as they've cut costs by not including an anti-halation layer.
CineStill (repackaged EK motion picture stock) has the same problem b/c it's missing the Remjet anti-halation backing, so that the internal reflection of light within the camera causes the film's characteristic 'glow' on highlights.
There's a reason that all of these films are cheaper than the top-shelf film products.
The Kodak videos in Fred's thread illustrate how insanely complicated it is to manufacture film, and gives an insight on how expensive it would be to change a film's formulation. The laminar flow waterfall section of the video suggests that it may be impossible to modify a production line to add additional layers, which could explain why some manufacturers try marketing film that has a layer left out. It may just be that there's a limit to how many layers their factory can apply, as changing the design of a manufacturing line could cost millions if not billions. It explains why Kodak is so firmly entrenched as the premier manufacturer. the Kodak plant cost billions to build, and the sunk costs of building such a plant effectively keeps out competitors.
The Agfa appears to have cut corners in silver costs at the expense of latent imaging stability.
The Harman Phoenix 200 hasn't been well-received as they've cut costs by not including an anti-halation layer.
CineStill (repackaged EK motion picture stock) has the same problem b/c it's missing the Remjet anti-halation backing, so that the internal reflection of light within the camera causes the film's characteristic 'glow' on highlights.
There's a reason that all of these films are cheaper than the top-shelf film products.
Dec 19, 2023 at 08:14 PM
p.6 #7How long do you think a latent image lasts on undeveloped film?
Just loaded and shot a roll of Kodak Ektapress 1600 in one of my Nikonosososos this morning. Never knew that film existed. Rated it at iso 160 vs 1600 because again ancient and not ideally stored.
Now same Nikonos V loaded with Kodak Gold 160. Rated that at 50.
Now same Nikonos V loaded with Kodak Gold 160. Rated that at 50.
Dec 30, 2023 at 01:22 PM
p.6 #8How long do you think a latent image lasts on undeveloped film?
Have you figured out some sort of formula for how many stops of exposure you're adding depending on the type of film and it's age, or are you just winging it?
Dec 30, 2023 at 04:30 PM
p.6 #9How long do you think a latent image lasts on undeveloped film?
Normal medium speed high quality film seems to only need one more stop. The faster the film is, the more it seems to need. With the trix it was about 35 yrs old and I actually shot a few rolls at dofferent speeds before finding that age trix, not stored ‘correctly’, needed to be given three more stops light i.e. iso 50.
The tmax 400 looked great at 100 and I assume it was not as old as well as the tabular film chemistry being more durable.
This thread is dealing specifically with the batch of film that I was gifted, which was not cold stored. My experiences with my expired but properly stored film shows that they shoot fine at box speed.
The tmax 400 looked great at 100 and I assume it was not as old as well as the tabular film chemistry being more durable.
This thread is dealing specifically with the batch of film that I was gifted, which was not cold stored. My experiences with my expired but properly stored film shows that they shoot fine at box speed.
Dec 30, 2023 at 08:50 PM
p.6 #10How long do you think a latent image lasts on undeveloped film?
Thanks. It's helpful to know that the decreased reactivity of the film is required for the film that was not cold stored, and that the cold-stored film should "never" require ISO adjustments. In my basement deep freezer I've got a bunch of decades old Kodak and Fuji films (both transparency and color negative) where I'm going to have to chip through ice to get to them. Once I get them out I'll just shoot them at box speed and hope there's not much color change.
Dec 31, 2023 at 05:52 AM
p.6 #11How long do you think a latent image lasts on undeveloped film?
Like Icarus I flew too close to the sun.
Shot this roll of Kodak Ektapress 1600 - age unknown but could be 30 yrs old - and not 'correctly' stored.
Rated it at 160, judging by the thin negs this ISO 1600 film is now an ISO 50 film..
You know how they say don't use expired film for anything important? Well a storm had just passed through, the light was clean, clear and pure, and the surf was up. I should have loaded fresh film...
But I still like these in a super grainy, colour shifty, blotchy abstract lomo kinda way.
Shot this roll of Kodak Ektapress 1600 - age unknown but could be 30 yrs old - and not 'correctly' stored.
Rated it at 160, judging by the thin negs this ISO 1600 film is now an ISO 50 film..
You know how they say don't use expired film for anything important? Well a storm had just passed through, the light was clean, clear and pure, and the surf was up. I should have loaded fresh film...
But I still like these in a super grainy, colour shifty, blotchy abstract lomo kinda way.
Dec 31, 2023 at 09:21 PM
p.6 #12How long do you think a latent image lasts on undeveloped film?
Did I learn from my Ektapress debacle? Maybe…. I loaded a roll of undetermined age TMZ P3200 into my mighty Samsung AF Slim Zoom. I first taped over the DX code so the camera would default to 100.
TMZ P3200 was released in 1988, so this roll may be 30 yrs old. Nominal speed in Kodak’s tech sheet says it is actually iso 800. So rating it at 100 after all this time should produce, er, something.
I have faith! We’ll see how this ends up.
TMZ P3200 was released in 1988, so this roll may be 30 yrs old. Nominal speed in Kodak’s tech sheet says it is actually iso 800. So rating it at 100 after all this time should produce, er, something.
I have faith! We’ll see how this ends up.
Jan 02, 2024 at 12:00 AM
p.6 #14How long do you think a latent image lasts on undeveloped film?
Loved the Pentax Espio. Still have it somewhere, though it's the 'normal' version.
Jan 06, 2024 at 10:15 PM
p.6 #17How long do you think a latent image lasts on undeveloped film?
Interesting thing is the Espio 24EW defaults to ISO 25 for non DX film. So I tapped off the DX code on that 35 yr old TriX so it shot at 25.
Looks really good at iso 25! Shot in the pano mode which isn't a gimmick IMO as it makes you commit to that composition. Instead of saying you can crop later when you figure it out...
Looks really good at iso 25! Shot in the pano mode which isn't a gimmick IMO as it makes you commit to that composition. Instead of saying you can crop later when you figure it out...
Jan 08, 2024 at 12:16 PM
