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Thermal Imaging / Night Vision for Birdwatching?

nmerc_photos
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Thermal Imaging / Night Vision for Birdwatching?

tsunathanh wrote:
Have you looked at the Zeiss DTI line? They look to have some wider angle stuff I’d be curious of your thoughts

I have not. this is the first time I've heard of Zeiss having thermal imagers.

I'll take a look - but I think it's going to be REALLY hard to beat the price to performance of the Pulsar XP line.

I missed an auction the other day that sold for $810. I would've easily paid $2000 for it.

Apr 21, 2024 at 07:51 PM

cocovetc
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Thermal Imaging / Night Vision for Birdwatching?

This is my setup as well but with binoculars on the side slot and the thermal on the chest. It's the best way I've found to carry all three. PD capture clip could be another way..and it offers a locking feature so when you bend over it doesn't drop out!

nmerc_photos wrote:
also I'm still trying to figure out the best way to carry the thermal with gear

if you're using small lenses (70-200 f2.8, 300 f2.8, 400 4.5, 600 6.3) the cotton carrier system works great. I put the lens foot in the main slot, and the thermal on my side

but with the bigger primes like my 400TC for example, I have been wearing a cotton carrier just for holding the thermal, and then slinging the camera across my body with a peak design sling

if anyone has better ideas, I'd love to hear it

Apr 22, 2024 at 11:24 AM

Phil Seu
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Thermal Imaging / Night Vision for Birdwatching?

nmerc_photos wrote:
I have not. this is the first time I've heard of Zeiss having thermal imagers.

I'll take a look - but I think it's going to be REALLY hard to beat the price to performance of the Pulsar XP line.

I missed an auction the other day that sold for $810. I would've easily paid $2000 for it.

I appreciate all the great information you have provided here. I know you love the XP 28 and I get the importance of the wide FOV but any concerns that you might be missing birds due to its NETD of 60?

Apr 23, 2024 at 08:09 PM

nmerc_photos
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Thermal Imaging / Night Vision for Birdwatching?

Phil Seu wrote:
I appreciate all the great information you have provided here. I know you love the XP 28 and I get the importance of the wide FOV but any concerns that you might be missing birds due to its NETD of 60?

No concern at all.

I'm using mine for owl sized birds and bigger. There's no missing or mistaking that at all.

If I was searching for woodcocks or something, then maybe it would be a different story.

As it stands, I can locate a screech owl nested inside a tree (physically impossible to see without a thermal unit) from over 100' away without issue.

Apr 23, 2024 at 08:38 PM

Sburst12
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Thermal Imaging / Night Vision for Birdwatching?

nmerc_photos wrote:
also I'm still trying to figure out the best way to carry the thermal with gear

if you're using small lenses (70-200 f2.8, 300 f2.8, 400 4.5, 600 6.3) the cotton carrier system works great. I put the lens foot in the main slot, and the thermal on my side

but with the bigger primes like my 400TC for example, I have been wearing a cotton carrier just for holding the thermal, and then slinging the camera across my body with a peak design sling

if anyone has better ideas, I'd love to hear it

I use a similar set up. Camera (R5 w 500mm f/4) on my chest on the cotton carrier. I usually handhold the thermal for quick searching. Then thermal in the pocket while photographing. I plan on getting a second cotton carrier holder for my side, which will be the thermals home.

Apr 24, 2024 at 12:17 PM

nmerc_photos
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Thermal Imaging / Night Vision for Birdwatching?

Sburst12 wrote:
I use a similar set up. Camera (R5 w 500mm f/4) on my chest on the cotton carrier. I usually handhold the thermal for quick searching. Then thermal in the pocket while photographing. I plan on getting a second cotton carrier holder for my side, which will be the thermals home.

you're not the first person I've heard of using a big prime on the chest mount. I've never tried it though. Maybe I need to!

I always figured the long length would make it unwieldly right in front of you

Apr 24, 2024 at 05:56 PM

Sburst12
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Thermal Imaging / Night Vision for Birdwatching?

nmerc_photos wrote:
you're not the first person I've heard of using a big prime on the chest mount. I've never tried it though. Maybe I need to!

I always figured the long length would make it unwieldly right in front of you

I have carried it like that for many miles and hours. I find it to be very comfortable and easily accessible. Tried a sling by my side and found it was not my thing. Highly recommend giving it a try.

Apr 25, 2024 at 08:10 AM

tsunathanh
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Thermal Imaging / Night Vision for Birdwatching?

Alright, I bought a Zeiss DTI 6/20 thermal monocular. I went with this mostly because of this thread, realizing it will be more useful as it has a much wider FOV than other offerings (I needed to buy new, not used- and the new sensor tech is welcome also).

I haven't taken it out much but I would be interested in hearing strategies. Are you all going out pre-dusk to find owls, etc?

Pretty fun so far

Squirrel in my backyard

DTI-6 20mm

Jul 25, 2024 at 02:13 PM

tsunathanh
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Thermal Imaging / Night Vision for Birdwatching?

Sburst12 wrote:
I use a similar set up. Camera (R5 w 500mm f/4) on my chest on the cotton carrier. I usually handhold the thermal for quick searching. Then thermal in the pocket while photographing. I plan on getting a second cotton carrier holder for my side, which will be the thermals home.

Curious to hear more about your process, if you don't mind sharing details

Jul 25, 2024 at 02:17 PM

theobserver
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Thermal Imaging / Night Vision for Birdwatching?

I have a different use case, but existing setups and devices may easily port to that.

I usually shoot mammals in dense foliage - think jaguars in Pantanal, tigers in India and less often, wildlife in some parts of Africa. Assuming we know there is an animal nearby (in a general sort of area in the trees), can we use thermals during the day to find where they are, even when they are hidden?

Most of these places have strict restrictions against leaving the vehicle, so no tracking is possible.

Jul 25, 2024 at 02:57 PM

tsunathanh
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Thermal Imaging / Night Vision for Birdwatching?

theobserver wrote:
I have a different use case, but existing setups and devices may easily port to that.

I usually shoot mammals in dense foliage - think jaguars in Pantanal, tigers in India and less often, wildlife in some parts of Africa. Assuming we know there is an animal nearby (in a general sort of area in the trees), can we use thermals during the day to find where they are, even when they are hidden?

Most of these places have strict restrictions against leaving the vehicle, so no tracking is possible.

These things are all made with finding large animals in mind. Even my Zeiss connects to my phone with the "Zeiss Hunting" app. That's why most have a narrower field of view (medium telephoto essentially) for "glassing" for things like elk, deer, etc.

So yeah- these things are built for your use case. One of the reasons I got one is that I go to South America every year and I am really excited to use it to spot the big woolly monkeys up in the canopy.

Several hunting supply outfitters, namely euroopotic, will let you buy them to try em out in your backyard for a week or two. They explicitly told me this was okay and encouraged. I got some use with a pulsar and decided to go with a Zeiss for the wider field of view.

Jul 25, 2024 at 03:13 PM

theobserver
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Thermal Imaging / Night Vision for Birdwatching?

tsunathanh wrote:
These things are all made with finding large animals in mind. Even my Zeiss connects to my phone with the "Zeiss Hunting" app. That's why most have a narrower field of view (medium telephoto essentially) for "glassing" for things like elk, deer, etc.

So yeah- these things are built for your use case. One of the reasons I got one is that I go to South America every year and I am really excited to use it to spot the big woolly monkeys up in the canopy.

Several hunting supply outfitters, namely euroopotic, will let you buy them to try...Show more →

Thank you for the informative reply!

Jul 25, 2024 at 09:59 PM

nmerc_photos
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Thermal Imaging / Night Vision for Birdwatching?

tsunathanh wrote:
Alright, I bought a Zeiss DTI 6/20 thermal monocular. I went with this mostly because of this thread, realizing it will be more useful as it has a much wider FOV than other offerings (I needed to buy new, not used- and the new sensor tech is welcome also).

I haven't taken it out much but I would be interested in hearing strategies. Are you all going out pre-dusk to find owls, etc?

Pretty fun so far

I find them most effective in the morning. I go out when it is still as dark as I think I can successfully navigate.

So in areas I'm familiar with, I can go out in pitch dark. If I'm trying new areas, I'll go when there's a little bit more light.

Usually I'll use a dim red light headlamp just so I can make sure I don't step on anything or trip.

With wide FOV, I'll start - pan the entire area, and then usually walk 20-30 steps ahead and then stop and do it again. Once I find a heat source, I'll usually start walking that way and see if I can determine what it is. Usually by size, or patterns of activity. IE knowing how a great horned owl looks in flight as opposed to a barred owl or screech owl.

Using them in the evening is more challenging, but can still be effective when it's a colder day or if there are clouds.

If it's both cloudy and cold, you can continue to use the thermal all day long. It was perfect in the Sax Zim Bog when I went. 24/7 usability.

theobserver wrote:
I have a different use case, but existing setups and devices may easily port to that.

I usually shoot mammals in dense foliage - think jaguars in Pantanal, tigers in India and less often, wildlife in some parts of Africa. Assuming we know there is an animal nearby (in a general sort of area in the trees), can we use thermals during the day to find where they are, even when they are hidden?

Most of these places have strict restrictions against leaving the vehicle, so no tracking is possible.

see a little about above.

Pantanal, India, and Africa are three places I've not been, but they all sound rather warm to me.

The key factor that enables thermal to work is there has to be difference in temperature. The warmer and sunnier the day is, the less effective (or completely ineffective) a thermal will be.

Also dense foliage can make a thermal completely useless. It's not like superman - it can't see through solid objects. Trees will 100% block the heat from anything BEHIND the tree. Owls are nice because if they are IN the tree, they often generate enough heat to show up.

Based on your description, I don't think a thermal would be super useful - but you'll never know until you try.

Jul 26, 2024 at 09:52 AM

Sburst12
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Thermal Imaging / Night Vision for Birdwatching?

Regarding your travels to South America with a thermal, I would research this extensively prior to trying to take one out of the US (if that is your home base) or into another country from where you are. From my research, the US has very strict export laws regarding thermal imaging devices. This applies to taking it outside the country, even for personal use, and back in as well. I read there is a permit process to allow you to take it with you but stopped looking at that point feeling that it may be too much effort to take it. Other countries have strict import laws as well and there is a risk of confiscation.

I would like to hear if others have experience with out of country travel with a thermal imaging device.

Jul 26, 2024 at 10:04 AM

Sburst12
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Thermal Imaging / Night Vision for Birdwatching?

nmerc_photos has given me guidance on this and I use it very similar to him. I got a thermal mainly for owls. I go to familiar locations or locations that you would expect owls to be in. We all have locations were we "know" specific wildlife is but just can't find it. These are excellent for these location. I try to get there in the morning or evening. Walk around and scan the area every 20-30 feet. You would be surprised at how much ground you can cover and area you can search with these. You'll find very quickly that you will be able to scan/search a huge area very quickly. If there is something in view, you will find it. Completely agree with the time of day and cloud cover. Mid day sun makes it tougher because of the lack of difference in temperature between objects and wildlife. Cloudy days, rain, pre dawn are your friend with these. Winter is great with the cold temps (in CT) and lack of leaves on trees.

Once you start using it and seeing different types of wildlife or species of birds/owls, you will start to get a good idea of what you are looking at as far as the thermal image. After I scan the area with the thermal I usually watch the heat pattern to see if I can determine what it is. You will get to know squirrels as well as other animals very quickly by their behavior. If it looks to be something of interest I will usually use the binoculars to investigate closer and then decide about photographing if desired. Owls become distinct as well.

Thermals are a great tool/aid to search/scan a large are and locate wildlife that is camouflaged or just hard to see because of their distance from you. You will be amazed at what you will "see" that you could not see before.

Jul 26, 2024 at 11:02 AM

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