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New A7CII or used A7C?

cosign
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · New A7CII or used A7C?

Hi All,

Photography is a hobby, not my livelihood. My interest is mostly landscapes, not so much for birds or sports. I am trying to decide if the extra features of the newer CII is worth the extra cost over a new or slightly used A7C. The difference can be substantial enough to fund a lens...

I shoot mostly using primes, although I did own a Tamron 28-200 on my A7R2, which now belongs to my son. One of the reasons I am considering the smaller body is that at my age, I would prefer to lighten the load a bit, as you can't take good pictures if you don't bring the camera or lens.

I am seeking some advice from experienced users.
Thank you in advance.

Oct 17, 2023 at 05:05 PM

chiron
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · New A7CII or used A7C?

cosign wrote:
Hi All,

Photography is a hobby, not my livelihood. My interest is mostly landscapes, not so much for birds or sports. I am trying to decide if the extra features of the newer CII is worth the extra cost over a new or slightly used A7C. The difference can be substantial enough to fund a lens.

I shoot mostly using primes, although I did own a Tamron 28-200 on my A7R2, which now belongs to my son. One of the reasons I am considering the smaller body is that at my age, I would prefer to lighten the load a bit, as...Show more →

In your situation, I would think about getting a used A7RIII. You can find excellent copies for about 1100-1200 on the buy-sell board. The reason I suggest this is because the A7RIII will give you an excellent high resolution sensor and an AF system that is great for landscapes. The body of the A7RIII is also the lovely small body of earlier Sony cameras, not as large as the more recent Sony full-frame bodies and close to, but still larger than, the size of the A7C.

The A7CII would give you a better IBIS system than the A7RIII or the A7C, which would let you do more hand-held landscapes without a tripod than either of the other cameras. It would also give you more resolution than the A7C, but less than the A7RIII. The A7CII's AF system is better than the A7C or the A7RIII, but not in a way that will matter much for landscapes. The A7CII would also give you better video capabilities than the other cameras, but I don't think that matters to you.

If you want an excellent landscape camera at a low price, I think the A7RIII is the way to go. If your heart is set on the A7Cxx bodies, I would go with the A7CII because of the improved IBIS and better resolution, both of which will help with landscapes.

Good luck with your decision!

Oct 17, 2023 at 06:16 PM

cosign
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · New A7CII or used A7C?

Thanks for the post; interesting suggestion...gives me a lot to think about.

Oct 18, 2023 at 06:16 AM

newdom
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · New A7CII or used A7C?

Agreed if your primary interest in landscape a good used Riii is def the way to go! Or even another Rii - I've just got another and it's still such a great small light camera. Save the size and weight on the lens - there are some great small primes these days like Sigma i series or Voigtlanders that are good for landscapes.

Oct 18, 2023 at 06:47 AM

Tarekith
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · New A7CII or used A7C?

I’d go with the A7CII myself, just for the extra dial and button, not to mention a bit more flexibility to crop. It was actually the lack of those things that made me swap my A7C for an A7IV, but now that Sony has addd them back to the new C, I plan on going back to the compact body.

The lack of weight and smaller size is always appreciated when you have to hike for your photos, even though the A series bodies aren’t exactly big and heavy compared to the competition.

Oct 18, 2023 at 09:32 AM

nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · New A7CII or used A7C?

Chiron’s advice is solid. Skip a7c2. Go for an a7r3.

I have an a7c and it’s always been a pain to use for multiple reasons, especially as a landscaper (lovely DR, not great resolution). And MF’ing in that tiny EVF isn’t fun. AF is for sure better, but unless you really need to shoot fast moving stuff, you won’t need or feel the AF differential, so that’s mute point. The only real advantage of an a7cII in your case smaller size for an extra 1k while you loose our on some beneficial features. It’s really about is that size is ok. For me it’s a bit big, otherwise I wouldn't even bother looking at the a7c line.

The A7r3 has my favorite sensor from Sony—balances resolution, DR and lowlight wonderfully. Especially for landscape. Nice EVF and good overall operationally (unlike the a7r2 or a7c).

Oct 18, 2023 at 12:11 PM

kaldur
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · New A7CII or used A7C?

I agree that the A7riii sounds like a good fit. I guess it depends a bit on whether the slightly smaller size / different shape (with the viewfinder on the side) is something you are seeking.

An asterisk might be that out of the cameras mentioned only the A7c ii has lossless compressed raw.
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/6144418951/what-difference-does-it-make-sony-uncompressed-raw*
I'm not certain that it has ever mattered to me but I do like the idea of lossless compressed.

*The article is about uncompressed raw which Sony introduced in 2015. For the intents and purposes known to me it's the same as lossless compressed except that any compressed will obviously mean smaller file sizes. I did not find a similar article on lossless compressed, probably because the diffs with lossy compressed on IQ would be the same as lossy compressed vs uncompressed.

Oct 18, 2023 at 12:29 PM

knshshnk
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · New A7CII or used A7C?

I don't know, the a7C feels like a beta product I personally would never consider it, especially over the a7Cii if that's financially viable option

Oct 20, 2023 at 02:34 PM

cosign
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · New A7CII or used A7C?

All,

So as a follow up to my question and your excellent suggestions, I spent some time in my local camera store. In speaking with them I must admit using the viewfinder of the A7C2 is awkward, at least for me, which also seemed small. I will say it was a bit lighter than the A7r3, but not by a lot.

He did show me a Canon body that was quite a bit lighter, but it did not have IBIS and could only use third party lenses with an adapter (adding weight). The other camera I was considering is a Fuji, the XT5, but it is a crop sensor...any thoughts? A used R3 seems to be a good compromise at this point.

Thanks again for the comprehensive feedback.

Oct 24, 2023 at 12:00 PM

RustyRus
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · New A7CII or used A7C?

I own the A7rV and the new A7c2.

Its incredible what they have done with the A7c2. The autofocus is just as good on both cameras which is absolutely incredible.

The form factor of the A7c2 is pretty perfect for me. I have large hands and it fits like a glove. I consider the A7c2 as good as the A7rV in every way minus a few megapixels and the beautiful EVF on the A7rV.

A7c2, A7cR or A7Rv. Get the best AF in the bussines. Pick the sensor and form factor you want. They are all incredible.

Oct 24, 2023 at 12:44 PM

formula4speed
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · New A7CII or used A7C?

cosign wrote:
All,

So as a follow up to my question and your excellent suggestions, I spent some time in my local camera store. In speaking with them I must admit using the viewfinder of the A7C2 is awkward, at least for me, which also seemed small. I will say it was a bit lighter than the A7r3, but not by a lot.

He did show me a Canon body that was quite a bit lighter, but it did not have IBIS and could only use third party lenses with an adapter (adding weight). The other camera I was considering is a Fuji, the...Show more →

The good news is that it's hard to find a bad camera these days, so pretty much whatever you land on will be able to shoot nice landscape photos. Picking the "ideal" camera can feel paralyzing, but just being there with a camera gets you most of the way to great photos.

Don't like the A7C in your hand? Cross it off the list.

Do you print large, or have a tendency to crop heavily? Go for more resolution like the A7RIII.

Not much for cropping or big prints? Save a few bucks and grab an A7III.

Think that Fuji XT-5 looks fancy and feels good in your hand? Go for it. People love their Fuji's and having a crop sensor might not be the first thing that comes to mind for landscapes but no reason it won't work.

Oct 24, 2023 at 01:07 PM

Craig Gillette
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · New A7CII or used A7C?

Since you're already in Sony ff, swapping to aps-c in Fuji could save you some weight, I guess, might depend on body and lens choices. I don't think swapping to Canon would do much for you. If you use Sony lenses on a Canon body, it might be hard to get a performance upgrade or weight loss. Full system swaps, Canon or Fuji, you'd want to look closely at pricing and eventual weight savings, etc.

The A7Cii is a better camera than the A7C but the A7Riii at a bit of a weight gain also offers the finder and handling of the larger body.

Should you really want aps-c weight and size, consider the A6700. Some of your current lenses may transition well so perhaps not the full costs of replacing the whole system.

Oct 24, 2023 at 02:22 PM

raminolta
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · New A7CII or used A7C?

If you are ok with APSC, Sony A6700 is probably the lightest most compact APSC system one can have at the moment. It's not just for the body weight but also because there are plenty of compact primes and zooms available for the Sony ecosystem. There are compact light lenses for A7c ii as well though, maybe not quite there in terms of weight saving compared to A6700. With other systems (APSC or FF), choices are more limited in terms of price/weight/size/ lens options. Personally, I wouldn't go for the A7c. I very much like all the improvements of the A7 cii over the original one.

Oct 25, 2023 at 09:59 AM

Charlie N
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · New A7CII or used A7C?

Cii, the R3 is no smaller than the R2, however, Cii is definitely smaller.

Oct 25, 2023 at 10:29 AM

patotts
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · New A7CII or used A7C?

Chiron advice is solid and makes a lot of sense - that a7Riii 42 mp produces excellent files, however, I don't see myself going back to Sony's old menu system, not as effective IBIS and overall slower operations.

Are you using tripod? Are you shooting primes, f/2.8 or f/4 lenses? Larger or heavier lenses don't balance as well on a a7C-design. If you are lugging around a tripod, then a slightly smaller a7C-body might not matter.

Also, the a7Cii has a different design vs regular-sized a7-series which requires a different style and approach. The EVF is smaller and darker, lower res, but surely good enough for framing and composition.

I think minty used A7IV for $1,800-$1,900 could be a very good option as well. Sure, lower MP's than the a7Riii, but a very capable camera that produces beautiful 33 MP files.

At any rate, the modern Sony's have lots of improvements on AF tracking accuracy, better IBIS, focus stacking (could be good for landscapes), operational speed, and heaps of improvements in video for hybrid shooters. If none of that adds any value to you, then going with a A7Riii makes a lot of sense.

A used Canon R6/mkii or R8, or a Fujifilm XT5 are both nice options worth looking into. Heck, a Nikon Z7ii is a wonderful landscape machine as well, esp used here on FM for $1,700-$1,800 - a lovely machine if you like Nikon UI and handling + good lenses like the 24-120/4

Oct 25, 2023 at 01:24 PM

cosign
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · New A7CII or used A7C?

Wow, reading through this is a comprehensive lecture in photography theory...impressive.

Getting down to my initial question for suggestions, it seems that if the A7CII doesn't work for me (form factor), perhaps the A7IV might...as opposed to the A7RIII. Other than the generational improvements and lower pixel density, are there any other major factors that would favor the A7RIII? I shoot mostly hand held, but not 100%. I expect that I will purchase (as I gave all my lenses to my son with the body) 65mm or so walk around lens, a 35mm for wider view, and some sort of tele (I did like the 28-200 tammy, but kind of heavy). Again not up to date on the current list of preferred.

I do understand the the A7IV is 33mp, while the A7RIII is 42. But given my anticipated max print size (3x2'), and not too much cropping, it seems that may work....yes?

Cost-wise, it seems that the A74 is quite a bit more than the A7III which might limit lens budget....and honestly, I know next to nothing about Canon and Nikon offerings....should I from a price/performance perspective? I did look into the Fuji XT5, and it is an apsc sensor, plus quite expensive.

Again, you guys are great...really enjoy reading and the recommendations....

Oct 25, 2023 at 02:13 PM

Ghostinz
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · New A7CII or used A7C?

I kind of started over fresh after I dumped all my FF Nikon stuff due to size and limitations in being able to carry a lot of stuff around. (a bad knee and foot can be made worse with lots of gear). So in starting over I had the advantage of being able to just choose a setup for landscape. I went with the new A7CR and a 16-35 GMii. Its likely overkill, and I won't be able to blame poor images on any of the equipment. My primary objective was downsizing so I went with the smallest FF I could find. I could have even downsized even more to the 16-35/4 but I wanted the 2.8. For me, this was the perfect landscape setup and my initial thoughts are the image quality is superb. I will concur with previous posters in the aspect of most modern cameras are going to do everything you want and need. I don't think there is a too bad a choice to be made. It probably comes down to cost and lens usability.

Oct 25, 2023 at 02:36 PM

SpecFoto
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · New A7CII or used A7C?

cosign wrote:
....My interest is mostly landscapes, not so much for birds or sports. I am trying to decide if the extra features of the newer CII is worth the extra cost over a new or slightly used A7C. The difference can be substantial enough to fund a lens...

Like another poster I am going to suggest the A6700, it is simply a fantastic camera with the latest and greatest AF and subject detection Sony offers. Its body/layout is very similar to the new A7CII and A7CR as it has a front control dial, but its grip is just a bit bigger. You can get a brand new A6700 for $1,350 or $1,750 (after current $50 rebate) with the 18-135mm APS-C lens with OSS (eq. to 27-202mm). So you get a great lens and body for $400 less than the A7CII alone, you mentioned funding a lens and this kit does that. Add the Sony 11mm f1.8 APS-C prime or the new Sigma 10-18mm f2.8 APS-C zoom and you are all set for wide angle photos with a very lightweight and compact kit that fits in the smallest of shoulder bags, no backpack needed!

You mentioned landscape photography and the A7C is 24MP, the A6700 is 26MP and the A7CII/A7IV is 33MP, and you won't really see much difference in IQ between them. I have the A7III (will be selling), A7RIII (sold), A7RIV, and now A6700 and its AF and eye detect is way better than all of them. It starts up quicker, reacts quicker and its smaller and lighter by a good amount and you can just feel it is a more modern camera. Regarding your comment about the EVF on the A7C's and A6700, yes it is a bit different at first but it took me less than a 1/2 day of shooting to adjust to it and now it is just fine. And I am doing a lot more shots via the LCD, something I rarely ever did with the larger and heavier FF bodies.

If interested, below is a link to a post I started on FM about the A6700 a month ago with many user comments and photos.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1826500/0#16353381

Oct 25, 2023 at 08:50 PM

steamtrain
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · New A7CII or used A7C?

RustyRus wrote:
Get the best AF in the bussines.

How is this relating to the needs of the OP?

Oct 26, 2023 at 08:43 AM

steamtrain
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · New A7CII or used A7C?

cosign wrote:
Wow, reading through this is a comprehensive lecture in photography theory...impressive.

Getting down to my initial question for suggestions, it seems that if the A7CII doesn't work for me (form factor), perhaps the A7IV might...as opposed to the A7RIII. Other than the generational improvements and lower pixel density, are there any other major factors that would favor the A7RIII? I shoot mostly hand held, but not 100%. I expect that I will purchase (as I gave all my lenses to my son with the body) 65mm or so walk around lens, a 35mm for wider view, and some sort of tele...Show more →
A7IV might have a bit better so out of camera color and a bit better AF. I have the A7IV, but I'm shooting candid portraits of kids, so I need the best skin colors and good AF.
For landscapes I would go A7RIII.

One advantage of higher MP count you can make lenses acting like having a longer focal length by cropping. If you can make a 24mm act like a 28mm the gap between a 24mm and 50mm is smaller. That 50 can act as a 65mm so the gap to an 85mm is smaller too. Of course, depending on the preferences, you might use your 28 like a 35mm etc, but you get the point: more cropability allows for bringing less lenses, which saves weight. You do have to use good sharp lenses of course, but for you, as a prime shooter, with a DOF needing subject like landscapes, that's not the problem. Sigma 90mm f/2.8 at 42Mp + cropabilty gives a lot of "reach" at a very little foot print in the bag.

Oct 26, 2023 at 08:59 AM

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