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Archive 2023 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't B...

RCH111
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

Hi, I recently purchased a R6MKII and a RF 24-70 F2.8 and RF 85 F1.2 lens. I think they're fantastic photography tools. However, when using them for video, I'm very surprised at how insanely loud the autofocus is.

I tested the autofocus noise of both lenses with the built in mic of the Canon R6MKII as well as the Sennheiser MKE 400, both indoors and outdoors, using several different settings.

RF 85 F1.2 Autofocus Audio Test Here - https://youtu.be/NJscWrl7YTE
RF 24-70 F2.8 Autofocus Audio Test Here - https://youtu.be/VNwyQOZ1IP4

Listening Volume: No audio levels were adjusted in post so adjust your computer/phone volume accordingly. I suggest listening as loud as possible and reducing the volume as needed.

Backstory: I recently switched from Sony. I had an A7III with a 24-70 G-Master, a Tamron 28-75 and a Samyang 85 1.4. All of these were totally silent while focusing and shooting video, even with the built-in Sony mic.

The only way reduce the autofocus noise is to lower the camera gain and external mic gain, so everything is barely audible (pointless, and the AF noise will just increase if you raise the levels in post) or jack up the camera gain and set the external mic to low (totally backwards and introduces a crazy noise floor hiss).

I love the look of RF lenses. Love the functionality. Love the image quality, but Canon really needs to do something about the autofocus noise going forward (and should have already).
Shooting concerts, sports or street probably isn't a problem but shooting in any type of quiet environment (nature, church, gallery, etc) even with a shotgun mic is surprisingly problematic.

Before Losing Your Minds: I realize you can manually focus. That's not really the point. I realize you can take it off Servo AF (it still makes the same noise when you do choose to focus) I realize you can get off camera mics (lavs, etc) but again, that's not really the point. It’s not IBIS.

I'm a professional photographer - https://www.robharrandphotography.com, but there is no denying video is equally, if not more important to a lot of people in 2023 and I think Canon needs to up their game in this department.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Did I get lemons?

Much appreciated.

Rob.

Sep 18, 2023 at 09:41 PM

action99
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

Internal mics are good only for audio sync, your shotgun is a very short one, so it ends up directly over the lens motor.... as a test move the shotgun in front of the lens and see. Also you want to talk in front of the shogun not behind as the pickup of a shotgun is "quite narrow".

Sep 19, 2023 at 03:31 AM

Gochugogi
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

I don't own either of those lenses, but have used the RF 24-105 4L IS USM on my R6 MK II with the Sennheiser MKE 400 in the shoe and haven't heard a peep from the AF motors. Granted it was for a talking head in a quiet studio so no servo focusing needed (lock and disable). Incidentally, Canon mic preamps are rather poor—too much hiss—so you have to set preamp levels low and crank mic gain. I'd only shoot this way when audio isn't very important or merely as a guide track.

For classical guitar—mostly what I shoot—I normally use outboard audio (Tascam) with two Neumann KM184 in a X/Y configuration on a mic stand. Outboard audio would solve your problem and increase audio quality greatly.

If you have to use the built in preamps, it would help to use a cage with the mic on an extension arm in the cold shoe or on your tripod.

Incidentally, the RF 85 1.2L isn't ideal for video: it has Ring type USM. One of the few RF designs with ring USM. You want a lens with Nano USM or STM drive for smoother movie servo and lower noise.

My setup for classical guitar duet. Note the mics on stand (no AF or preamp noise whatsoever):

Sep 19, 2023 at 12:08 PM

tomasr
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

Just move the microphone well away as you should regardless, and where possible consider lav mics. I'm using all EF / Sigma ART glass with zero intentions to acquire a single current RF lens and never have an issue this way.

Sep 19, 2023 at 01:15 PM

marsguy
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

If you're using a hotshoe mounted mic like many people are, the recommendation of moving it away from the lens is truly hilarious. Sure, let's make this bulky fragile thing even more bulky and fragile with a hotshoe extender. If you're not in a studio or using a cage setup which is already bulky, forget it.

I haven't heard focusing noise in any videos with my R5/24-105/14-35 and VideoMic Pro+, but I'll be on the lookout for it.

Sep 19, 2023 at 01:33 PM

RCH111
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

Thanks for the replies.

I can understand not wanting to use the built-in R6MKII mic, hence why I purchased a Sennheiser MKE400 shotgun mic. But that fact that video is basically unusable (even with the 24-70 that uses nano motors) unless using a lav mic or a shotgun mic and a boom pole is pretty ridiculous.

If Sony, Tamron and Samyang can all produce silent focusing lenses (while using built-in camera or onboard shotgun mics) what is Canon doing? These are their top of the line, very expensive lenses. One shouldn't need to get creative with off-board mics to not have footage sound like a popcorn machine.

I'm not asking for much here.

Sep 19, 2023 at 01:35 PM

RCH111
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

Haha agreed. And ya let me know what you hear. Coming from Sony (and not wanting to return because I can't stand the look and feel of their cameras) I find it completely bizarre (and disappointing) that Canon's premium professional (and extremely expensive) lenses are this noisy when Sony, Tamron and even Samyang lenses are silent. I don't think Canon realizes video is just as important as still photography for most people (just from a business and marketing perspective) in 2023. We shouldn't have to use off-board mic setups just to get popcorn machine free audio. Major oversight. However, the Canon rep did tell me to clean the lens contacts so there is hope 🤦‍♂️👎🏽.

Sep 19, 2023 at 01:47 PM

Gochugogi
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

If you're shooting handheld, most gimbals have a 1/4" or 3/8" thread on the bottom. You could screw in an accessory/mic adapter—basically a small arm with cold shoe. You'd want some type of shock mount so you don't pickup hand or gimbal motor noise. I'm sure you can find a work around. Most of us have after a little thought and toil.

Sep 19, 2023 at 02:46 PM

tomasr
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

RCH111 wrote:
Thanks for the replies.

unless using a lav mic or a shotgun mic and a boom pole is pretty ridiculous.

.

No more ridiculous than using off-camera flash, and in fact both have very substantial benefits over on-camera variants.

I am not defending Canon RF lens design, quite the opposite and hence I REFUSE to buy one from the outset for reasons like plastic build, price, heavy vignetting or fly by wire design.
Bottom line is if the internal mic picked up the noise, mounting a more sensitive one right on top wasn't going to fix it. The good news is you now have a very nice mic and will get a lot of good use out of it mounted on a boom stand.

Sep 19, 2023 at 04:10 PM

RCH111
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

When you pay $5,000 for a camera and lens, and you want to pick it up and record the family, one shouldn't need to invest in boom poles and off-camera mics. I'm not putting a lav mic on each of my kids every time I want to record them. I would agree with you, if it weren't for the fact that Sony, Tamron and Samyang (and who knows who else) can all produce silent autofocusing lenses in 2023. My question is, what is Canon doing? Video is bigger than still photography in 2023, whether we want to admit it or not.

Sep 19, 2023 at 04:51 PM

Gochugogi
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

Canon aimed the R5 and R5C at the pro and semi-pro markets. Heck, besides the R3, the R5 series is the only current Canon model that allows outboard video recording with the rear screen still active with touch controls. And those markets would never use the the built-in mics or preamps for audio. Everything is outboard. And I'm sure Canon knows this. Nevertheless, iIf you want an all-in-one solution for family clips you bought the wrong lenses and/or camera. I'm pretty sure a GoPro or late model cellphone on a gimbal would do what you want do while remaining a simple all-in-one solution.

Incidentally, I also own the R7 and the cheap (compared to L lenses) RF-S 18-150 3.5-6.3 IS STM kit lens. The R7 on-board mics picked up absolutely no AF, IS or diaphragm sounds even in a sound isolated recording studio environment with a single acoustic only guitar. I merely use the audio as a guide track for sync in PP, but it is very clean. In this case, Canon aimed the R7 and kit lens squarely at amateur hobbyists, not pros, and Canon knows these users are unlikely to use outboard audio. The lens is also very small and has a plastic mount so I suspect less resonant and sound/vibration enhancing compared to a huge RF 85 1.2L or 24-70 2.8L. On the other hand, my old EF-S 17-55 2.8 IS USM is horrid: shutter shock galore in stills mode and every AF movement sounds like bird chirps on the R7's video audio. My solution? Use different lens without those issues...

Sep 19, 2023 at 09:09 PM

RCH111
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

I bought their top of the line lenses because I’m a working professional photographer first and foremost. It’s a little odd that their “best” lenses are noisy as hell considering we are living in hybrid times. Again, if it weren’t for the fact that Sony (professional G-Master) Tamron and Samyang have completely silent autofocusing lenses, I’d understand, but considering they all do, Canon is clearly lagging behind in this regard. Especially considering they don’t even allow 3rd party lens options. The R5 is marketed as the ultimate hybrid camera (which is pretty much is). The RF lenses clearly need improving though.

Sep 19, 2023 at 09:31 PM

johnctharp
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

RCH111 wrote:
I bought their top of the line lenses because I’m a working professional photographer first and foremost.

Most folks that do both, while perhaps sharing a camera body, will typically use different lenses for video and stills for run-of-the-mill or run-and-gun takes. You might try (before buying) the two RF 24-105 lenses to see how well they dampen noise versus the halo lenses.

RCH111 wrote:
It’s a little odd that their “best” lenses are noisy as hell considering we are living in hybrid times. Again, if it weren’t for the fact that Sony (professional G-Master) Tamron and Samyang have completely silent autofocusing lenses, I’d understand, but considering they all do, Canon is clearly lagging behind in this regard. Especially considering they don’t even allow 3rd party lens options. The R5 is marketed as the ultimate hybrid camera (which is pretty much is). The RF lenses clearly need improving though.

If what you're experiencing is representative of the experience of the userbase of these lenses, well, I'd certainly be looking toward one of Sony's offerings personally. Got to have the right tool for the job and all that.

On a related and outdated note, I have an EF 35/2 IS USM that I use on a 77D for Zoom meetings. If I move around too much, the lens audibly clicks about while trying to find focus.

Sep 19, 2023 at 10:57 PM

Gochugogi
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

Yeah, Ring USM designs—e.g., EF 35 2 IS USM—are noisier and less smooth compared to Nano USM and STM. There were only a handful for Nano USM and STM lenses released during the late DSLR era: EF-s 18-135 IS USM (nano), EF 70-300 4-5.6 IS USM (nano), EF-S 24 2.8 STM, EF 40 2.8 STM, EF-S 18-55 IS STM, EF 24-105 3.5-5.6 IS STM and EF-S 55-250 IS STM. I used the EF-s 18-135 IS USM on my 90D (and briefly on the R7) in studio and stage for classical guitar and it was extremely smooth and quiet.

The RF 24-105 4L IS USM (nano) is known to be quieter than the RF 24-70 2.8L iS USM and is a favorite of R video shooters. I've used it extensively for acoustic guitar sessions and the guide tracks were indeed very quiet (save for the usual Canon preamp hiss). Not sure if it's good enough for the OP's family clips but I'm happy with it (unlike the many Ring USM designs I auditioned).

Sep 19, 2023 at 11:21 PM

action99
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

marsguy wrote:
If you're using a hotshoe mounted mic like many people are, the recommendation of moving it away from the lens is truly hilarious. Sure, let's make this bulky fragile thing even more bulky and fragile with a hotshoe extender. If you're not in a studio or using a cage setup which is already bulky, forget it.

I haven't heard focusing noise in any videos with my R5/24-105/14-35 and VideoMic Pro+, but I'll be on the lookout for it.

Is not silly at all, my suggestion is to test it by holding in front of the lens. Just look at his mike MKE 400 is very small sits very low on the camera and is so short that it ends directly over the lens motors. Compare it with your VideoMic Pro+ or NTG and you may see where part of the problem is.

Do you see the difference?:

https://sm.pcmag.com/t/pcmag_uk/review/s/sennheiser/sennheiser-mke-400_zmsh.3840.jpg

https://digitalfilmmaker.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/rode-videomic-ntg-canon-eos-r-mirrorless.jpg

In addition he wants to shot kids and yet he tests it with flowers (afaik don't make sound) and he wants to get his voice clear by speaking behinds ?!? the camera, exactly what a shot gun mike is made to avoid.

Pick up pattern of MKE 400.... to get the voice from the back you need so much gain that it will pick up big time sound right in front and in his case the motors: https://www.sonology.shop/image/28591-3-l/Sennheiser+MKE+400-3.jpg

I don't have RF 24-70 2.8 (used to have the EF one) nor RF 85 1.2, but I do use RF 28-70 2.0 on R5 and R5c with the videomic ntg and I don't have issue with the motors sound. Never the less if you need good audio, on camera solutions, are not really good.

Sep 20, 2023 at 07:02 AM

Jesse Evans
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

The test you’ve done is good for picking up whatever minor noises are available to be picked up at all, but it isn’t reflective of what your recording environments will be like. A better test would to play a background track of people speaking at normal volumes. The tapping being picked up in your clips is below the noise floor of the recording.

The in camera mic will pretty much always pick up any in camera sounds. Also, I would recommend returning the MKE 400 and getting the Rode Videomic NTG, or even the Rode Video Micro II. I have both the Sennheiser MKE 400 and the Rode Videomic NTG, and the Videomic NTG is significantly more directional and picks up far fewer (none) camera noises.

The problems with the Sennheiser MKE 400 are beyond the fact that it doesn’t offer substantial off axis noise rejection. It also picks up the other minor noises that in camera mics pick up, like scratches of the camera or rotating dials quickly. I believe some of these notices are caused by vibrations traveling through the hotshoe and in to the microphone body. Even though it’s internally suspended, I don’t believe it helps solve the transfer of noises directly from the camera in to it. It also will pick up your breathing much more readily. Additionally, the sound is a little thin and not enough of an improvement over the in camera mic to justify itself.

I am happy to upload a comparison for you later to demonstrate the issue. But it will probably not be until Friday.

But let me just tell you, you’re not going to hear this lens motor when recording your kids with a Videomic NTG.

Sep 20, 2023 at 08:51 AM

Jesse Evans
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

Gochugogi wrote:
Yeah, Ring USM designs—e.g., EF 35 2 IS USM—are noisier and less smooth compared to Nano USM and STM. There were only a handful for Nano USM and STM lenses released during the late DSLR era: EF-s 18-135 IS USM (nano), EF 70-300 4-5.6 IS USM (nano), EF-S 24 2.8 STM, EF 40 2.8 STM, EF-S 18-55 IS STM, EF 24-105 3.5-5.6 IS STM and EF-S 55-250 IS STM. I used the EF-s 18-135 IS USM on my 90D (and briefly on the R7) in studio and stage for classical guitar and it was extremely smooth and quiet.

The RF...Show more →

The RF 24-70 f/2.8 is not ring USM, it is also nano USM and has the same audibility as the 24-105.

Sep 20, 2023 at 08:52 AM

Jesse Evans
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

RCH111 wrote:
I bought their top of the line lenses because I’m a working professional photographer first and foremost. It’s a little odd that their “best” lenses are noisy as hell considering we are living in hybrid times. Again, if it weren’t for the fact that Sony (professional G-Master) Tamron and Samyang have completely silent autofocusing lenses, I’d understand, but considering they all do, Canon is clearly lagging behind in this regard. Especially considering they don’t even allow 3rd party lens options. The R5 is marketed as the ultimate hybrid camera (which is pretty much is). The RF lenses clearly need improving...Show more →

They’re not noisy as hell. They are in fact used with great success with on camera mics by many a YouTuber like Peter McKinnon, Katelyn James, Vanessa Joy and many others, plus thousands of wedding videographers.

What you’ve done is record in a silent room with high gain. If someone was talking in that room you would have clipped the audio in order to make those noises audible. The tapping sounds from nano usm are below the noise floor even in your clips. You’ve just amplified the noise floor and found… noise living in there.

Additionally, the microphone you’ve chosen is very good at picking up any tiny in camera sound, while others by Rode (even cheaper offerings) do a much better job of not picking up this very minor noise.

Sep 20, 2023 at 08:58 AM

RCH111
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

I shot indoors (silent) and outdoors (windy and a lot of noise). I tested every possible setting. I didn’t just jack the gain. Watch the video before making stupid comments about flowers.

Sep 20, 2023 at 09:18 AM

action99
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon RF 24-70F2.8 & RF 85 F1.2 Video Autofocus Noise - This Can't Be Normal...

RCH111 wrote:
I shot indoors (silent) and outdoors (windy and a lot of noise). I tested every possible setting. I didn’t just jack the gain. Watch the video before making stupid comments about flowers.

I watch the videos not in the full extend as they are long, boring and the wrong approach. What audio are you trying to capture? It seems that your goal is to capture lens noise and you succeeded with that but make it make no sense.

Everybody's here is trying to help but you seems not to listen ton anyone, you just complain about the lenses.
You have the wrong mic (multiple people are telling you this), you don't have a target audio that you want to capture and you even want to record yourself speaking behind the camera with a cardioid pattern mic the worst possible idea.

Did you notice that you are the only one complaining in this thread, does it not resonate to you that maybe there is a very small chance that you are doing something wrong?

Sep 20, 2023 at 09:45 AM

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