p.2 #1 · LED Lights, Silent Shutter, Sensors, Banding, and Color Effects
I found this on Bing. LE lights are plain FAST.
"LED lights can blink at very high frequencies. The frequency range of LED lights is quite wide, with white LEDs or others that use a secondary phosphor being the slowest, often topping off in the 1 to 5 MHz region, while standard off-the-shelf primary LEDs (red, blue, green, IR, UV etc) are typically rated at a cut-off frequency of 10 to 50 MHz (sine wave) 1. However, I am not sure what you mean by “need”. If you could provide more context, I would be happy to help you better."
p.2 #2 · LED Lights, Silent Shutter, Sensors, Banding, and Color Effects
All A/C bulbs cycle at 60Hz in the USA. This means 120 light transitions/second. This will show up as bands on non-stacked sensors at shutter speeds < 1/60.
Many LED bulbs employ pulse-wide modulation to achieve brightness levels below 100% (ie, dimming). For example, I have a TP-Link Kasa KL125 SmartBulb that cycles at 1920Hz for any brightness below 100%. This means 3840 transitions/second, so even stacked sensors and mechanical shutters will exhibit banding.
p.2 #4 · LED Lights, Silent Shutter, Sensors, Banding, and Color Effects
After some years in concert photography I can say that banding is definitively av problem, as is weird colours.
I'm shooting with two A9IIs and struggle with banding every day, be it with electronic or mechanical shutter. Mechanical shutter and adjusting shutter speed helps but is no cure-all. The banding is particularly visible on even surfaces - walls, curtains etc.
And if we get stage smoke into the mix it gets even harder. Then you get the banding directly in the smoke. Not pretty.
The A1 has faster readout speed so it might be better, but then again it doesn't have a full mechanical shutter for the worst cases.
And don't get me started on the LED colours. LED are rather monochromatic so there is not always anything you can do to adjust the colours except remove them. And light people - around here at least - seems to be in love with those horrible purple or magneta colours.
p.2 #5 · LED Lights, Silent Shutter, Sensors, Banding, and Color Effects
Isn't the variable shutter on the A1 helping with this issue mentioned above?
I'm asking because the banding was one of the major reasons for me in thinking to buy an A1 (alongside the other two reasons: excellent EVF and the 1/32000 SS).
p.2 #6 · LED Lights, Silent Shutter, Sensors, Banding, and Color Effects
catacore wrote:
Isn't the variable shutter on the A1 helping with this issue mentioned above?
I'm asking because the banding was one of the major reasons for me in thinking to buy an A1 (alongside the other two reasons: excellent EVF and the 1/32000 SS).
I wasn't able to eliminate the 1920Hz PWM bands on the Z9 using its similar feature.
p.2 #7 · LED Lights, Silent Shutter, Sensors, Banding, and Color Effects
catacore wrote:
Isn't the variable shutter on the A1 helping with this issue mentioned above?
I'm asking because the banding was one of the major reasons for me in thinking to buy an A1 (alongside the other two reasons: excellent EVF and the 1/32000 SS).
When using electronic shutter, I personally have had major banding problems with every non-stacked sensor I have used--the A7RV and A7Cr being especially bad because their readout speed is so slow. However, I have not had problems when using mechanical shutter with the A7Cr. I didn't try mechanical shutter on the A7RV, but I would expect it to be the same as the A7Cr.
With the stacked sensor cameras I have used--the A9 and the A1--I have never had a banding problem while using electronic shutter and I have never needed to use mechanical shutter with these bodies. This includes shooting in homes lit only by LED lights and in commercial or public spaces lit by LED lights. I have never shot in sports stadiums at night nor in concert venues. The LED lights used in those settings may have different characteristics than home or commercial/public lighting settings. It seems to me that those who have reported ever having banding problems with the A9 series or with the A1 have been shooting in stadiums, concerts, or theaters when they had the problems.
But for me in my shooting, the stacked sensor of an A9 or an A1 has been the complete solution to banding under LEDs.
p.2 #8 · LED Lights, Silent Shutter, Sensors, Banding, and Color Effects
Not the same problem, but a related issue with LED lights is the generally poor color rendering (CRI) of mass-market lamp types. This not only results in scenes that are odd or flat in terms of colors in photography, but there is also the question of display of prints lit by LEDs. The problem isn't only deterioration of color fidelity, but also a visible lack of acuity. Details are just easier to see under high CRI illumination. Makes me wonder if our cameras are similarly limited.
In our home I've intentionally stayed with incandescent bulbs (halogens) in some areas, either for lighting art or simply where there were surfaces that merited better visibility and color rendering. In other art light locations, I've experimented with Soraa LED bulbs, which are giving fairly good results.
p.2 #9 · LED Lights, Silent Shutter, Sensors, Banding, and Color Effects
Last show I did im seeing no banding and im not exactly sure why. I know for a fact these are under LED lighting and I shoot this twice a year at about 20k per show. Look at my EXIF data but A7RV in mechanical shutter
ILCE-7RM5Sony FE 70-200mm F2.8 GM OSS II (SEL70200GM2) lens197mmf/4.51/320s1250 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7RM5Sony FE 70-200mm F2.8 GM OSS II (SEL70200GM2) lens185mmf/4.51/320s1250 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7RM5Sony FE 70-200mm F2.8 GM OSS II (SEL70200GM2) lens101mmf/4.51/320s1250 ISO0.0 EV
p.2 #10 · LED Lights, Silent Shutter, Sensors, Banding, and Color Effects
if you notice I hang at around 1/320 of a second and its seems I get no banding and the rest of the 20k images I have not seen one yet. We do use electric looking backlight on the background but more important im not seeing it on cloths or skin. I am in APSC mode with the 70-200 as I need that 300m reach. BTW we never go to fully 200mm but stop short of that like 197mm. I found 200mm can get soft
But this show they maybe using more friendly style LED. No sure but in NY last show I saw banding this is in LA so different lighting but still LED. I would love to have the new A9III with global shutter and close the door on banding but I need more than 11mpx in crop mode, why I wish it was at least 42mpx but maybe that will come along in the future. But this has been an issue for several years for sure. When I had the A1 I was able to shoot electronic shutter and that worked nicely
p.2 #12 · LED Lights, Silent Shutter, Sensors, Banding, and Color Effects
Blueshound wrote:
Those look great Guy. But you did shoot mechanical shutter, right?
Brian
Yes totally mechanical shutter and one reason I went back to renting was that's 40k activations a year on MY cam which makes it harder to sell later to upgrade so I decided to go back to renting the A7RV and 70-200 . I got a nice copy of the 70-200 .
I kept my Vertical grip and 6 batteries for when I do these shows. I just sold my CF express cards but buying more than 160 gb in July for NY
p.2 #14 · LED Lights, Silent Shutter, Sensors, Banding, and Color Effects
Seriously this LED stuff has driven me crazy but maybe 1/320 shutter is in-between. I never have time to actually test it out with different shutter speeds to induce it. All I can do is start and pray.
Sales have been terrific on this show. Im thrilled
