p.1 #4 · Rumor: Leica M11-P by the end of the year (2023)
1bwana1 wrote:
What could the P have that the M11 doesn't?
The M10-P ( your model) If I remember correctly included the top plate script option and no red dot, the quieter/silent shutter, built-in level gauge and the touch screen compared to the base M10.
I read some consider the "-P" = Professional. Not sure if that's accurate or forum legend.
Wild guess. M11-P:
-Top plate script and no red dot
-128GB internal storage
-Quieter shutter/ more custom shutter open/closed options similar to what Fred has been asking for 😎
-Maybe access to Leica Looks via the Fotos app
-USB-Mode Mass Storage feature
-Some sort of IBIS not necessarily hardware IBIS
p.1 #5 · Rumor: Leica M11-P by the end of the year (2023)
My totally speculative thoughts:
sensor stabilization: would have to extend the mount further out --unlikely
256gb memory: likely
Tilt screen : not on a rangefinder
wireless charging with new charging grip: not necessary
video: no
evf : would then be something other than an M11
new rangefinder to extend for close focusing lenses: doubtful
Faster processor/buffer: Always welcome
new color /editions : safari ,black paint would be welcome
aspect ratios in visoflex and back screen with 1:1 and panoramic: I hope, lines could be added to optical viewfinder as well
further weight loss? : um doubtful
some type of electronic focus confirmation? Would be an engineering marvel
How about built-in antitheft tech to brick the camera-trace the camera if stolen--All manufacturers should start including this. Maybe an optional user unlock code that lasts say 24hrs that you could unlock at the beginning of each day.
Hard to think on how to improve on the M11 or make a significant difference as the current M11 rocks!
p.1 #6 · Rumor: Leica M11-P by the end of the year (2023)
The M10p was worth upgrading from the M10 - it had a lot of features/functions that the M10 didn't have: quiet shutter, touch screen interface, level viewfinder, etc.
Outside of increased memory, no red dot, and other cosmetic differences, I don't see why you would want the M11p. Good marketing for Leica though, admittedly, as Leica fanboys/girls will eat it up.
p.1 #7 · Rumor: Leica M11-P by the end of the year (2023)
Indeed. It would be cool if the M11-P also offered no metering like the M-A, for super fast shutter action. However I just was a more reliable M11.
LBJ2 wrote:
The M10-P ( your model) If I remember correctly included the top plate script option and no red dot, the quieter/silent shutter, built-in level gauge and the touch screen compared to the base M10.
I read some consider the "-P" = Professional. Not sure if that's accurate or forum legend.
Wild guess. M11-P:
-Top plate script and no red dot
-128GB internal storage
-Quieter shutter/ more custom shutter open/closed options similar to what Fred has been asking for 😎
-Maybe access to Leica Looks via the Fotos app
-USB-Mode Mass Storage feature
-Some sort of IBIS not necessarily hardware IBIS
p.1 #8 · Rumor: Leica M11-P by the end of the year (2023)
Fred Miranda wrote:
Indeed. It would be cool if the M11-P also offered no metering like the M-A, for super fast shutter action.
This would get my attention! A digital-sensor M camera that shoots when I “fire” it, rather than after it has first run through its calculations and machinations.
p.1 #11 · Rumor: Leica M11-P by the end of the year (2023)
LBJ2 wrote:
-Some sort of IBIS not necessarily hardware IBIS
I suspect this will be a new feature in a future M12 series. That's why I am seeing currently the M11 as stepping stone between M10 and this kind of M12. I don't think that Leica can drag their feet much longer by not implementing IBIS. But they will put it in a new series (likely named M12).
p.1 #12 · Rumor: Leica M11-P by the end of the year (2023)
retrofocus wrote:
I suspect this will be a new feature in a future M12 series. That's why I am seeing currently the M11 as stepping stone between M10 and this kind of M12. I don't think that Leica can drag their feet much longer by not implementing IBIS. But they will put it in a new series (likely named M12).
Leica has the much loved svelte M10 form factor to consider. Not sure IBIS HW has been miniaturized sufficiently but taking out the shutter altogether has been achieved by Nikon already and shutterless would open up the space in the rangefinder for an IBIS mech.
To your point, Leica did introduce EVF and LiveView stabilization in the M11...as a starter or one step toward some level of stabilization. And then there is Sony who includes a software based stabilization feature for some of their cameras too, but I think it applies some level of crop to the FF image when processed. So there is potentially more Leica might be able to do with IBIS software so-to-speak ....I think. At least until maybe the M12 with some physical/mechanical changes ?
*Sony places the battery in the camera's built in grip and no rangefinder mech which probably gives more room inside the thin Sony camera body for that large, now up to 8 stops IBIS mech.
p.1 #13 · Rumor: Leica M11-P by the end of the year (2023)
RexGig0 wrote:
This would get my attention! A digital-sensor M camera that shoots when I “fire” it, rather than after it has first run through its calculations and machinations.
p.1 #14 · Rumor: Leica M11-P by the end of the year (2023)
Desmolicious wrote:
There's a delay when you have it in manual mode?
M11 metering is off the sensor even in manual mode. Therefore the sensor needs to be exposed (shutter open) for metering to work. By keeping the shutter closed throughout the entire process, we eliminate the need for metering and achieve faster speed with no lag in every exposure.
Basically like shooting with a M-A. It could be a nice marketing feature for the M11-P.
p.1 #15 · Rumor: Leica M11-P by the end of the year (2023)
Fred Miranda wrote:
M11 metering is off the sensor even in manual mode. Therefore the sensor needs to be exposed (shutter open) for metering to work. By keeping the shutter closed throughout the entire process, we eliminate the need for metering and achieve faster speed with no lag in every exposure.
Basically like shooting with a M-A. It could be a nice marketing feature for the M11-P.
The M-A doesnt have a meter so there is no delay for electronics. So I thought what you meant was just manually set the shutter speed and shoot. So by delay you mean you are still using the camera’s meter in manual mode? Like using an M6.
p.1 #17 · Rumor: Leica M11-P by the end of the year (2023)
Fred Miranda wrote:
M11 metering is off the sensor even in manual mode. Therefore the sensor needs to be exposed (shutter open) for metering to work. By keeping the shutter closed throughout the entire process, we eliminate the need for metering and achieve faster speed with no lag in every exposure.
Basically like shooting with a M-A. It could be a nice marketing feature for the M11-P.
EFCS would solve this.
Metering calculations are insignificant compared to other delays in the system. Maybe a millisecond. And they're done before the shutter is fully pressed not after. The extra curtain movement in the M11 adds 2 x 100ths to the system. This just isn't a factor compared to human reaction time. It's not like the M-A has no delay. There's a mechanical throw of the shutter button mechanism, the force need to release the system and the speed of the curtains. Just because it's quiet doesn't mean it's instant. What most people see as a slower shutter is no more than perception because of the different sound. Difference? Yes. One that makes a difference. Likely not. It's just perception not reality.
Personally I think we're spoiled by most modern systems. Even when I started in the late 70's camera shutters were much much slower. You just learned to time shutter lag into your shooting technique. Spend a day with a Pentax 6x7. Even my R4 doesn't react as fast as my M11. Most modern cameras are essentially instant with the biggest delay being human reaction time. Even the human brain to finger reaction is variable shot to shot. I certainly haven't even lost a shot due to any delay in the shutter firing on any digital M. Even the slow as molasses M9.
p.1 #19 · Rumor: Leica M11-P by the end of the year (2023)
New features may include no red dot and top deck script, larger internal memory, and possibly EFCS and sensor pixel refresh. The silver-brass body may be done away with in favor of a lighter weight silver- aluminum/magnesium alloy.
With 16 months of firmware updates to the M11 that have yet to fully resolve operational bugs for some owners, I've come to suspect there are hardware issues with the M11. Surely by now Leica would know what these troublesome components are. Given this scenario, if there has not already been a running change in the M11, then these defective components will be replaced in the M11-P.
Like others here, I don't expect ibis until the M12. How that will be done inside the M11 form factor will be quite a challenge. I suspect the M12 design model is the Nikon Z8-9 with a stacked sensor and no mechanical shutter to get more room for the ibis. It's going to be a tight squeeze.
p.1 #20 · Rumor: Leica M11-P by the end of the year (2023)
goodbokeh wrote:
New features may include no red dot and top deck script, larger internal memory, and possibly EFCS and sensor pixel refresh. The silver-brass body may be done away with in favor of a lighter weight silver- aluminum/magnesium alloy.
With 16 months of firmware updates to the M11 that have yet to fully resolve operational bugs for some owners, I've come to suspect there are hardware issues with the M11. Surely by now Leica would know what these troublesome components are. Given this scenario, if there has not already been a running change in the M11, then these defective components will be replaced in the M11-P.
Like others here, I don't expect ibis until the M12. How that will be done inside the M11 form factor will be quite a challenge. I suspect the M12 design model is the Nikon Z8-9 with a stacked sensor and no mechanical shutter to get more room for the ibis. It's going to be a tight squeeze....Show more →
You can remove the shutter but the flange distance has to remain the same. Sensor needs to be the same distance from the lens. Unless they re-invent the wheel and have the IBIS unit in front of the sensor.....
To get IBIS either we need:
a: a thicker body. Highly unlikely after the M(240)
b. No rear screen. This would free up some space.
c; Same *body* but with a deeper lens mount ring (more protrusion from the front of the camera).
d. Nothing for the classic M and IBIS for an EVF body that takes M lenses. No heritage to have to follow.
