p.1 #1 · newbie printing question about ICC profiles
I am new to printing but not to photography. I am looking for some help understanding what ICCs are and how to actually use them.
Assume that my monitor is calibrated. My most direct question is how do I implement an ICC for a particular brand of paper on a particular printer.
The printers I am using for now are an Epson XP-7100 and a Canon Pixma Pro-100.
Where do I obtain an ICC, say for a specific Epson or a Canon paper?
Where do I load the ICC? In the printer? In the software (e.g. Epson Print Layout or Lightroom or DXOPhotolab6) that I use to control printing? Or somewhere else?
And, can anyone recommend a guide to making good prints that explains ICCs and other matters and that is very specific in its guidance. I haven't been successful in locating a good one.
p.1 #3 · newbie printing question about ICC profiles
chiron wrote:
I am new to printing but not to photography. I am looking for some help understanding what ICCs are and how to actually use them.
Assume that my monitor is calibrated. My most direct question is how do I implement an ICC for a particular brand of paper on a particular printer.
The printers I am using for now are an Epson XP-7100 and a Canon Pixma Pro-100.
Where do I obtain an ICC, say for a specific Epson or a Canon paper?
Where do I load the ICC? In the printer? In the software (e.g. Epson Print Layout or Lightroom or DXOPhotolab6) that I use to control printing? Or somewhere else?
And, can anyone recommend a guide to making good prints that explains ICCs and other matters and that is very specific in its guidance. I haven't been successful in locating a good one.
I'm a newbie ... about a 1/2 step ahead of you on this one.
The process is pretty straight forward, and Canson has a video on it. I'm sure others do too.
The process goes like this:
Download profile from paper mfr.
Unzip / Extract downloaded file(s)
After the ICC file has been extracted (might be separate, new folder), right click on profile.
The right click will bring up an "Install Profile" option. Click on it, you're done.
Now, when opening up the printer software, the new profiles are available to choose from.
The trickiest part was that I didn't notice that a separate folder had been created with the extracted files, at first, so I kept trying to install the compressed files.
With Canson, you pick the Printer Brand and then the printer, then select your paper(s) (multiple is okay), to download.
You likely will have to restart whatever printing program you're using, for it to update your available profile list.
But, the main thing to understand here is that YOU DON'T have to PUT it anywhere. It does so automatically (Windows) when you right click and select "Install Profile".
p.1 #4 · newbie printing question about ICC profiles
RustyBug wrote:
I'm a newbie ... about a 1/2 step ahead of you on this one.
The process is pretty straight forward, and Canson has a video on it. I'm sure others do too.
The process goes like this:
Download profile from paper mfr.
Unzip / Extract downloaded file(s)
After the ICC file has been extracted (might be separate, new folder), right click on profile.
The right click will bring up an "Install Profile" option. Click on it, you're done.
Now, when opening up the printer software, the new profiles are available to choose from.
The trickiest part was that I didn't notice that a separate folder had been created with the extracted files, at first, so I kept trying to install the compressed files.
With Canson, you pick the Printer Brand and then the printer, then select your paper(s) (multiple is okay), to download.
You likely will have to restart whatever printing program you're using, for it to update your available profile list.
But, the main thing to understand here is that YOU DON'T have to PUT it anywhere. It does so automatically (Windows) when you right click and select "Install Profile".
Thanks for the explanation and help, Kent. I think this is just what I needed to know. Indeed, I kept looking for some information on where to put the ICC.
p.1 #5 · newbie printing question about ICC profiles
chiron wrote:
I am new to printing but not to photography. I am looking for some help understanding what ICCs are and how to actually use them.
Assume that my monitor is calibrated. My most direct question is how do I implement an ICC for a particular brand of paper on a particular printer.
The printers I am using for now are an Epson XP-7100 and a Canon Pixma Pro-100.
Where do I obtain an ICC, say for a specific Epson or a Canon paper?
Where do I load the ICC? In the printer? In the software (e.g. Epson Print Layout or Lightroom or DXOPhotolab6) that I use to control printing? Or somewhere else?
And, can anyone recommend a guide to making good prints that explains ICCs and other matters and that is very specific in its guidance. I haven't been successful in locating a good one.
Here is another article and video from Red River Paper that does a great job of explaining how to install ICC profiles. They also have a page for selecting your printer and then downloading all of the profiles for the paper they sell.
p.1 #6 · newbie printing question about ICC profiles
frdjohns wrote:
Here is another article and video from Red River Paper that does a great job of explaining how to install ICC profiles. They also have a page for selecting your printer and then downloading all of the profiles for the paper they sell.
Thank you! I went to the link you provided at Red Riverand it is great in its explanation. Just the kind of step-by-step detail that I needed. Also, I have a Red River sample pack (just arrived) so the link helps perfectly with getting the profiles for those papers.
p.1 #8 · newbie printing question about ICC profiles
chiron wrote:
I am new to printing but not to photography. I am looking for some help understanding what ICCs are and how to actually use them.
Assume that my monitor is calibrated. My most direct question is how do I implement an ICC for a particular brand of paper on a particular printer.
The printers I am using for now are an Epson XP-7100 and a Canon Pixma Pro-100.
Where do I obtain an ICC, say for a specific Epson or a Canon paper?
Where do I load the ICC? In the printer? In the software (e.g. Epson Print Layout or Lightroom or DXOPhotolab6) that I use to control printing? Or somewhere else?
And, can anyone recommend a guide to making good prints that explains ICCs and other matters and that is very specific in its guidance. I haven't been successful in locating a good one.
Thanks.
...Show more →
For Canon printers the ICC profiles for Canon papers are automatically loaded when the driver is installed. No action required. Don't know about Epson but I would expect the same to be true.
p.1 #9 · newbie printing question about ICC profiles
jrhoffman75 wrote:
For Canon printers the ICC profiles for Canon papers are automatically loaded when the driver is installed. No action required. Don't know about Epson but I would expect the same to be true.
Thank you. Yes, each printer shows some profiles for their own papers. But neither shows all the papers that are available within the brand. Also, I would sometimes like to use Epson on Canon or vice versa, plus use third party papers.
p.1 #10 · newbie printing question about ICC profiles
chiron wrote:
Thank you. Yes, each printer shows some profiles for their own papers. But neither shows all the papers that are available within the brand. Also, I would sometimes like to use Epson on Canon or vice versa, plus use third party papers.
Unfortunately you won't find any alt printer maker paper ICC profiles for your printer. By that I mean Canon do not supply ICC profiles for their papers to use on an Epson printer, and vice versa (true for HP as well). It's only paper suppliers (eg Red River, Hahnemuhle etc) who make ICC profiles for all printers. If you really want to try a Canon paper on an Epson then you'll have to get a profile made for that paper on your own printer.
p.1 #11 · newbie printing question about ICC profiles
mcbroomf wrote:
Unfortunately you won't find any alt printer maker paper ICC profiles for your printer. By that I mean Canon do not supply ICC profiles for their papers to use on an Epson printer, and vice versa (true for HP as well). It's only paper suppliers (eg Red River, Hahnemuhle etc) who make ICC profiles for all printers. If you really want to try a Canon paper on an Epson then you'll have to get a profile made for that paper on your own printer.
Thanks.
How does one "get a profile made for that paper on your own printer"?
On occasions, for one reason or another, I have cross-printed some Canon papers (luster) on the Epson printer, using the Epson profile for semigloss. For some images, I prefer the results on the Canon paper because it has a whiter base.
What kinds of problems or flaws in the prints would you look for in using an "incorrect" profile while printing?
p.1 #12 · newbie printing question about ICC profiles
Problems are "it depends" but could range across everything; colour balance, luminosity, shadows etc, or it could look OK (which will just be luck). The ICC profile tells the printer what amount of ink to use for the paper colour and coating so that you get the print that looks like the one on your monitor (with a calibrated monitor). As each paper is different then each ICC is different.
If you contact someone who makes profiles they will send you a file of colour patches you need to print, with no colour control. You send them the print and they will read the colour patches on the paper and send you an ICC profile for that paper and your printer.
EdIt : I should add that some papers ARE the same. By that I mean that one paper maker might supply a paper that several retailers will sell under their own brand name. If you find/ask/research this (black hole) then a profile for one paper is likely OK for the same paper across the brands.
p.1 #13 · newbie printing question about ICC profiles
Generic ICC profiles can sometimes be absolutely awful. (I've tried Hannemule ones which ear no resemblance to almost anything...)
Every printer is different and profiles need to be matched to printer / ink / paper.
I get my profiles made by Permajet, (the paper company). I'm guessing you may have an office near you? You need to download their chart and print it from an Adobe utility they provide. Send the printed chart in and they create a profile very cheaply.
Interestingly, I've just updated to Big Sur, and Apple make it very difficult to get good results. I've learned not to use anything that employs "AirPrint." But usually this is a simple process.
p.1 #14 · newbie printing question about ICC profiles
mcbroomf wrote:
Problems are "it depends" but could range across everything; colour balance, luminosity, shadows etc, or it could look OK (which will just be luck). The ICC profile tells the printer what amount of ink to use for the paper colour and coating so that you get the print that looks like the one on your monitor (with a calibrated monitor). As each paper is different then each ICC is different.
If you contact someone who makes profiles they will send you a file of colour patches you need to print, with no colour control. You send them the print and they will read the colour patches on the paper and send you an ICC profile for that paper and your printer.
EdIt : I should add that some papers ARE the same. By that I mean that one paper maker might supply a paper that several retailers will sell under their own brand name. If you find/ask/research this (black hole) then a profile for one paper is likely OK for the same paper across the brands....Show more →
Without getting too technical here, well at least hopefully, on all consumer RGB inkjet printers that do not use a RIP as their printer driver, the amount of ink put down is controlled by the Media Type selection and not by the ICC profile. The Media Type, or whatever it's called on your brand of printer contains basic information for the printer like how much ink to lay down and it also provides basic ink level optimizations for that paper and that printer. That is supposed to get the printer much closer on a hardware level to where it needs to be, then you make the custom ICC printer profile on top of that setting to provide the final conversion from the working color space to the printer color space.
As far as getting profiles there are many places to get them. There are individuals who do them, there are manufacturers that provide them, some large retailers like Lexjet have many available and then there are companies like www.chromix.com that have a profile generating service. There are also alternative print drivers like ImagePrint that will work with some printers and come with their own set of profiles.
I've made hundreds of custom print profiles over the last twenty-five years and can tell you that the hardware and software that is used does make a difference. Whether you filter out ultra-violet makes a difference. Whether you use a Polarizer filter when reading canvas media makes a difference. How many color patches makes a difference with diminishing returns above around 2000 patches. If I were not making my own with top quality hardware, I would not hesitate to use Chromix if you're located in North America.
p.1 #16 · newbie printing question about ICC profiles
mcbroomf wrote:
Thanks for that correction Peter. I think I did know that but forgot .. too many years. I don't make my own profiles and stick to a few papers.
Well, the profile can make minor corrections but only within the limits of the ink being laid down. For instance, the profile cannot make anything darker than whatever that media type setting allows. I know this is how Epson's work and I'm pretty sure it's how Canon's work as well.
p.1 #17 · newbie printing question about ICC profiles
Peter Figen wrote:
Without getting too technical here, well at least hopefully, on all consumer RGB inkjet printers that do not use a RIP as their printer driver, the amount of ink put down is controlled by the Media Type selection and not by the ICC profile. The Media Type, or whatever it's called on your brand of printer contains basic information for the printer like how much ink to lay down and it also provides basic ink level optimizations for that paper and that printer. That is supposed to get the printer much closer on a hardware level to where it needs to be, then you make the custom ICC printer profile on top of that setting to provide the final conversion from the working color space to the printer color space.
As far as getting profiles there are many places to get them. There are individuals who do them, there are manufacturers that provide them, some large retailers like Lexjet have many available and then there are companies like www.chromix.com that have a profile generating service. There are also alternative print drivers like ImagePrint that will work with some printers and come with their own set of profiles.
I've made hundreds of custom print profiles over the last twenty-five years and can tell you that the hardware and software that is used does make a difference. Whether you filter out ultra-violet makes a difference. Whether you use a Polarizer filter when reading canvas media makes a difference. How many color patches makes a difference with diminishing returns above around 2000 patches. If I were not making my own with top quality hardware, I would not hesitate to use Chromix if you're located in North America. ...Show more →
Interesting input regarding "Media Type" = amount of ink put down.
I've been testing a few papers (setting MT to recommendation from paper mfr), and some were a bit "wet" to me. Makes me wonder if I chose a different Media Type (than the recommended one), if it would put down less ink ... still using the same icc profile. Worth a try, I suppose.
p.1 #18 · newbie printing question about ICC profiles
RustyBug wrote:
Interesting input regarding "Media Type" = amount of ink put down.
I've been testing a few papers (setting MT to recommendation from paper mfr), and some were a bit "wet" to me. Makes me wonder if I chose a different Media Type (than the recommended one), if it would put down less ink ... still using the same icc profile. Worth a try, I suppose.
When I got started in this profiling stuff about 25 years ago there were times when there were no recommendations for media type so I would print out a file with test images and gray step wedges using every different media type available and invariably there would be one that seemed closest to what was right and that's the setting I would print the target with and then subsequently build the profile from. Sometimes there wasn't too much difference between three or four settings but there were always a couple outliers on either end, lighter or darker. I think that the modern media types are much better than they were two decades ago.
p.1 #19 · newbie printing question about ICC profiles
leethecam wrote:
Generic ICC profiles can sometimes be absolutely awful. (I've tried Hannemule ones which ear no resemblance to almost anything...)
Every printer is different and profiles need to be matched to printer / ink / paper.
I get my profiles made by Permajet, (the paper company). I'm guessing you may have an office near you? You need to download their chart and print it from an Adobe utility they provide. Send the printed chart in and they create a profile very cheaply.
Interestingly, I've just updated to Big Sur, and Apple make it very difficult to get good results. I've learned not to use anything that employs "AirPrint." But usually this is a simple process....Show more →
That' s remarkable. I use 4 different Hahnemühle Fine Art papers. Results are spot on (screen/print). Using Hahnemühle .icc paper profiles.
