It's not anything new. Teijin's Sereebo is the name for its carbon fibre reinforced thermoplastic material and has been used as the main body chassis material in the D810, D750 amongst other models. Other manufacturers like Panasonic have used it in some of their video cams too.
Z8 has a magnesium and Sereebo body seemingly btw and note that Nikon states that D780 and D850 have magnesium + carbon fibre body too which likely would be a form of Sereebo.
So Nikon have been using a similar or same combination for some time already. Maybe they have a greater proportion of Sereebo in the Z8 (likely for weight purposes) but the important part is that they utilise the right material property for the right part of construction.
Nikon did go from magnesium (D800) to Sereebo (D810) to Magnesium + carbon fiber (D850) so it looks like this has evolved as the material combination of choice for a good weight/performance balance.
It looks like the D500 uses Sereebo, so I would assume the durability is quite good. The D750, a workhorse that wedding photographers have been using for nearly a decade, is also made from a magnesium alloy top and back plate, and a sereebo monocoque for the rest of the body.
Typically carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastics offer exceptional durability and usually will outperform magnesium alloy with respect to shattering, cracking, or scratching.
If the material was used in the D750, I can say that it's plenty durable. After racking up nearly 200K actuations with my D750 over ~4 years, it still looked like new despite having being regularly abused (dropped numerous times, used inside burning buildings, used during hurricanes, etc.). I am fairly positive that my previous Z6 used Sereebo for some components as well, and that camera took a similar beating.
The only issue I had with the Z6 were the port covers (replaced several times, they tended to swell over time and would not stay closed) and I only sent it in for servicing after it ran over 200K shutter actuations, just as a precaution. The D750 never had a single issue of any kind. So far, my Z9 has been equally as durable, but I have only had it 6 months/80K images captured, and haven't subjected it to the same level of abuse just yet...
ahinesdesign wrote:
If the material was used in the D750, I can say that it's plenty durable. After racking up nearly 200K actuations with my D750 over ~4 years, it still looked like new despite having being regularly abused (dropped numerous times, used inside burning buildings, used during hurricanes, etc.). I am fairly positive that my previous Z6 used Sereebo for some components as well, and that camera took a similar beating.
After reading this, I'd say YOU are durable... you're taking work that I would flatly turn down.
Of the D700, D3s, and D810 that I have used, I haven't noticed any one model deteriorate more quickly than another. The D3s saw some abuse. The D700 has peeling rubber. The D810 looks great because I baby the thing. I do appreciate the weight savings of the Sereebo in the D810.
What's the consensus on the bodies that have used this in the past in terms of wear and tear, robustness, sealing, etc?
Seerebo is awesome stuff, and as you seem to have already learned, Nikon has been using it (or variations of it) for a very long time. Similar materials are used in Formula 1 cars and Aerospace applications as well. It is a carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastic.
Nikon's non-flagship bodies are usually made out of a blend of magnesium and Seerebo (very entry level bodies are mostly plastic), and the flagship bodies are almost entirely magnesium. There's an argument to be made that the bodies with a hybrid construction are actually more durable, but they still use predominantly magnesium in the flagship bodies for that undeniably 'solid' feeling and it doesn't seem to be an issue. Magnesium is light and ridgid but it's also quite brittle. For example, there were some reports of D800 frames and mirror boxes cracking - when that happened, it affected the alignment of the AF/sensor/mount and the camera was unrepairable. With the D850, Nikon changed that design such that the magnesium mirror box was no longer attached to more structural magnesium on the sides/grip, and instead attached to structural Seerebo panels better equipped to absorb shock from bumps, drops, or other use/abuse.
Usually the hybrid bodies keep the frontal lens mount area magnesium as you want that rigidity for things like precision sensor alignment, and make use of the CRTP elsewhere where durability, weight reduction, or shock absorption might be of higher priority.
p.1 #11 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice
CanadaMark wrote:
Seerebo is awesome stuff, and as you seem to have already learned, Nikon has been using it (or variations of it) for a very long time. Similar materials are used in Formula 1 cars and Aerospace applications as well. It is a carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastic.
Nikon's non-flagship bodies are usually made out of a blend of magnesium and Seerebo (very entry level bodies are mostly plastic), and the flagship bodies are almost entirely magnesium. There's an argument to be made that the bodies with a hybrid construction are actually more durable, but they still use predominantly magnesium in the flagship bodies for that undeniably 'solid' feeling and it doesn't seem to be an issue. Magnesium is light and ridgid but it's also quite brittle. For example, there were some reports of D800 frames and mirror boxes cracking - when that happened, it affected the alignment of the AF/sensor/mount and the camera was unrepairable. With the D850, Nikon changed that design such that the magnesium mirror box was no longer attached to more structural magnesium on the sides/grip, and instead attached to structural Seerebo panels better equipped to absorb shock from bumps, drops, or other use/abuse.
Usually the hybrid bodies keep the frontal lens mount area magnesium as you want that rigidity for things like precision sensor alignment, and make use of the CRTP elsewhere where durability, weight reduction, or shock absorption might be of higher priority....Show more →
This is precisely the feedback I was hoping for, thanks Mark! I have no issue with the use of plastics. Many of the older DSLR bodies that people say "feel like tanks" were partly plastic. I get equating heft to quality, but in the case of the Z9, it just feels needlessly heavy.
p.1 #12 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice
RoamingScott wrote:
This is precisely the feedback I was hoping for, thanks Mark! I have no issue with the use of plastics. Many of the older DSLR bodies that people say "feel like tanks" were partly plastic. I get equating heft to quality, but in the case of the Z9, it just feels needlessly heavy.
Yup - it's all about using the right material for the right application, and often times that means a mix. The word "plastic" gets a bad reputation when taken at face value, but there is a world of difference between dollar store plastic and the plastics used by NASA, F1, Aviation, etc. and of course Nikon
Here is a very in-depth D850 teardown if you're curious, so you can see which parts are magnesium and which are Seerebo or other plastics. That camera is an absolute tank and has obviously stood the test of time, and I imagine the Z8 is built very similarly minus obviously the mirror box haha:
p.1 #13 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice
CanadaMark wrote:
Yup - it's all about using the right material for the right application, and often times that means a mix. The word "plastic" gets a bad reputation when taken at face value, but there is a world of difference between dollar store plastic and the plastics used by NASA, F1, Aviation, etc. and of course Nikon
Here is a very in-depth D850 teardown if you're curious, so you can see which parts are magnesium and which are Seerebo or other plastics. That camera is an absolute tank and has obviously stood the test of time, and I imagine the Z8 is built very similarly minus obviously the mirror box haha:
p.1 #14 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice
This is all a very nice reasonable, rationale discussion....so I'll whine a bit
I'm all for them using this material for increased durability/decreased weight BUT, the exterior plastic panels wear so much worse IMO than the painted magnesium. The plastic turns glossy in wear areas and looks cheap and worn out quickly, whereas the paint slowly wears to magnesium which looks much better (and feels better). In the Z8 it looks like basically all of the touch points are Seerebo (or rubber, which is great. Nikon does the best/grippiest rubber).
I'm also a little dumbfounded that body is basically entirely Seerebo (just a mag front plate), and still so heavy/close to the weight of the D850.
unique? there are many types of CFRP out there for many uses. assuming inferiority is not necessarily true. appropriate product for the appropriate uses.
unique? there are many types of CFRP out there for many uses. assuming inferiority is not necessarily true. appropriate product for the appropriate uses.
