Steve Spencer wrote:
That is a totally reasonable expectation, but my own view is that almost all newer lenses are doing AF better. On being quiet that is especially so. I also think Sony to its credit has built really good AF into their lenses and they have focussed on that and they have decided to almost exclusively use linear motors. So, how much of the good performance is linear motors and how much of it is Sony deciding on design goals that emphasize AF, and how much did they pick linear motors to achieve those design goals for AF vs. for other reasons like size and cost we will never know. What we do know is Sony builds a lot of lenses with good AF and they typically use linear motors. That is a good thing. What we can't know is whether they could have built lenses that were just as good or almost as good if they used stepper motors. ...Show more →
That's impossible idd.
Steve Spencer wrote:
I don't see the reason to make the comparison. Like you said above what we need is for each lens information about how the AF performs and that is what really matters.
I know about some new less than stellar stepper motor lenses.
I don't know about stellar stepper motor lenses (beside a pretty wide angle prime maybe or pretty dark aperture zooms)
I don't know about new less than stellar linear motor lenses.
What kind of motors Sony could have used as well is both interesting and unknowable. Granted. Is it relevant though when speculating about AF performance of an unreviewed lens? For me some predictive value from what I wrote above is still there.... until someone comes up with a crazy fast and snappy focusing lens at least as bright as f/2.8 and having a focal length of at least 50mm, and preferably a bit longer. Until then I expect a stepper motor lens to be a bit slower than a linear motor lens, especially when focal lengths and apertures are the same.
There's no evidence or whatsoever, and I like that kind of pure logical thinking. This Samyang could be the first stellar focusing stepper motor lens, that's possible. Some linear motor lenses have one motor, others have two, and some have four. Maybe it's possible to use 8 or 16 stepper motors or whatsoever, who knows.
I've been researching but is there a specific way I should post pictures? I can post a few from my lens but I kind of wonder if something is up with it. Given it's slippage of the zoom lens and I believe it's autofocus isn't as sharp as I was expecting. This is my first lens for a sony camera and my first mirrorless so frankly don't know what to expect.
Guys, the proof is in the pudding and all this AF motor discussion only sidetracks the main subject here...
If you can find a stepper lens that is as good or better than the best linear, maybe it's worthy of a new topic .
@Jerky_san
Posting any link ending with jpg/jpeg is one way, buying access to Upload&Sell is other .
May 03, 2023 at 10:40 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
I know about some new less than stellar stepper motor lenses.
I don't know about stellar stepper motor lenses (beside a pretty wide angle prime maybe or pretty dark aperture zooms)
I don't know about new less than stellar linear motor lenses.
What kind of motors Sony could have used as well is both interesting and unknowable. Granted. Is it relevant though when speculating about AF performance of an unreviewed lens? For me some predictive value from what I wrote above is still there.... until someone comes up with a crazy fast and snappy focusing lens at least as bright as f/2.8 and having a focal length of at least 50mm, and preferably a bit longer. Until then I expect a stepper motor lens to be a bit slower than a linear motor lens, especially when focal lengths and apertures are the same.
There's no evidence or whatsoever, and I like that kind of pure logical thinking. This Samyang could be the first stellar focusing stepper motor lens, that's possible. Some linear motor lenses have one motor, others have two, and some have four. Maybe it's possible to use 8 or 16 stepper motors or whatsoever, who knows.
An example of a stellar stepper motor lens is the Nikon 800S PF. Fantastic lens. Great AF and stepper motors. I also think a much more pedestrian lenses like the Nikon 50 f/1.8S, an 85 f/1.8S have very nice AF and a stepper motor. There are actually a lot of nice stepper motor lenses out there just not from Sony which tends to use linear motors. I have both the Nikon 85 f/1.8S and the Sony 50 f/1.2 GM and the Sony/Zeiss 50 f/1.4. The Sony 50 f/1.2 GM is no faster than the other two in my experience and it is the only one with a linear motor. It is of course moving more glass, however. All three lenses have great AF speed and accuracy and all are quiet don't get me wrong. Just in those three lenses I don't see the linear motor lens as having better AF. The big difference in these three lenses is the camera that the lens is attached to and not the AF of the lens itself.
As far as how many motors to use that is dependent on how many elements you are moving. Sony has also done a good job of keeping the size of the moving elements small. That is likely in my view at least as important for AF as the motors used, but I don't know that for sure. Also the size of the motor obviously matters and it seems Sony has gone more and more to using pairs of linear motors on each side of the lens when they want to move elements, which makes sense to me in keeping the elements aligned/centered. So most Sony lenses and I believe all of the recent ones have at least 2 linear motors set up as a pair. It is also true that bigger stepper motor lenses like the Nikon 800 PF have more than one stepper motor. So, the modern trend, as I see it anyway, is to smaller focussing groups, quieter motors, and multiple motors, and within Sony to linear motors, but I don't see that linear motors are necessarily better.
50/1.2 GM is visibly faster (and in a more quiet fashion) in AF than 50ZA, even on modern bodies - my note just to keep people from being misinformed .
steamtrain wrote:
All we need is a review comparing the lenses for AF performance.
dpr has repeatedly tested that, with some of the z-mount primes:
"Autofocus actuation from the stepping motor isn't as fast as Nikon's snappiest F-mount zooms with more powerful ring-type AF motors, but it's at least as fast as most of the company's older primes and good enough for rapid acquisition of most subjects. The Z 50mm F1.8 S focuses slightly faster than the Z 35mm F1.8 S but there's not much to choose between them." https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z-50mm-f1point8-s-lens-review
"Autofocus is relatively fast and silent, but not as snappy as the best of its peers... In use, AF speed is perfectly good for everyday subjects, although it would be a stretch to say the lens focuses rapidly. It takes just over a second to work from its MFD through to infinity and back in good light." https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z-35mm-f1-8-s-review/
from the comment section of that dpr review:
@Rishi Sanyal - "The Sony FE 35/1.8 is probably the fastest to focus 35mm prime we've tested. It's faster by a fair margin.
Also, the Nikon 35/1.8 G lens on a D850 is faster to focus than the 35/1.8 S on the Z7, though this is probably primarily due to the DSLR bodies, since the 35/1.8 G focuses at about the same speed as the 35/1.8 S on the Z7. Still, the end result is that the 35/1.8 G on a Nikon DSLR will give you slightly faster AF."
when new milc lenses focus slower than the dslr glass that came out years ago, well, it's a stepper motor failure.
Steve Spencer wrote:
An example of a stellar stepper motor lens is the Nikon 800S PF. Fantastic lens. Great AF and stepper motors. I also think a much more pedestrian lenses like the Nikon 50 f/1.8S, an 85 f/1.8S have very nice AF and a stepper motor. There are actually a lot of nice stepper motor lenses out there just not from Sony which tends to use linear motors. I have both the Nikon 85 f/1.8S and the Sony 50 f/1.2 GM and the Sony/Zeiss 50 f/1.4. The Sony 50 f/1.2 GM is no faster than the other two in my experience and it is the only one with a linear motor. It is of course moving more glass, however. All three lenses have great AF speed and accuracy and all are quiet don't get me wrong. Just in those three lenses I don't see the linear motor lens as having better AF. The big difference in these three lenses is the camera that the lens is attached to and not the AF of the lens itself. ...Show more →
That's another factor indeed.
Steve Spencer wrote:
As far as how many motors to use that is dependent on how many elements you are moving. Sony has also done a good job of keeping the size of the moving elements small. That is likely in my view at least as important for AF as the motors used, but I don't know that for sure. Also the size of the motor obviously matters and it seems Sony has gone more and more to using pairs of linear motors on each side of the lens when they want to move elements, which makes sense to me in keeping the elements aligned/centered. So most Sony lenses and I believe all of the recent ones have at least 2 linear motors set up as a pair. It is also true that bigger stepper motor lenses like the Nikon 800 PF have more than one stepper motor. So, the modern trend, as I see it anyway, is to smaller focussing groups, quieter motors, and multiple motors, and within Sony to linear motors, but I don't see that linear motors are necessarily better....Show more →
I only have the 50mm f/1.2 GM. Thanks for sharing your experience.
jwpstl wrote:
I'd like to read about the Samyang lens...
Yes, and you're not the only one. Please note there are no reviews from trustworthy reviewers available yet.
jwpstl wrote:
take your discussion of motors and other lenses somewhere else please.
As long as there's no review covering AF-speed available this is the best we can do at the moment.
I will stop as soon as that review is providing decent information, but until then it's related enough in my opinion.
Welp I received a response back from Samyang and sadly not exactly what I was expecting to hear, to be honest.
"
Hi, thank you for contacting us. Some lens creep is to be expected when the lens is not level. Your lens is not defective.
Thanks,
The Samyang US Team"
My lens can "creep" from 35 to 150 mm. If I don't lock it while in the bag when I'm taking it out it will creep out to near 150mm as well so honestly I don't see how that isn't a problem but I digress.
Anyways below is a google drive link to some pictures I've taken with it since some of you were wanting examples. Keep in mind I'm not a god tier or anything close to that and honestly I've been taking care of a family member in the hospital(sleep there every night) for a little so this is the max extent of my pictures. Pictures of playing with their dog a little(since I'm also taking care of their animals) so throwing the ball then trying to grab a good shot and a dog they brought around to make patients at the hospital feel better. One is of a flower that is growing in the flower bed.
Jerky_san wrote:
My lens can "creep" from 35 to 150 mm. If I don't lock it while in the bag when I'm taking it out it will creep out to near 150mm as well so honestly I don't see how that isn't a problem but I digress.
Isn't that what the lock switch is for: keeping it from creeping when not in use?
jwpstl wrote:
Isn't that what the lock switch is for: keeping it from creeping when not in use?
While it is.. it's not for when you're walking around and it's creeping out. So I'm trying to get used to holding it by the ring frankly. On some of the review videos and sites I've read, they've got no creep whatsoever, and some talk about the tightness of it being similar to the Tamron. Though there honestly isn't a whole lot. I guess I'm just not used to creep honestly. Though I'd expect a brand new lens to be a bit tighter since I assume it will loosen up as it ages.
Jerky_san wrote:
While it is.. it's not for when you're walking around and it's creeping out. So I'm trying to get used to holding it by the ring frankly. On some of the review videos and sites I've read, they've got no creep whatsoever, and some talk about the tightness of it being similar to the Tamron. Though there honestly isn't a whole lot. I guess I'm just not used to creep honestly. Though I'd expect a brand new lens to be a bit tighter since I assume it will loosen up as it ages.
If you think yours in considerably worse than what was seen in reviews, I'd exchange it for another and see if there's a difference.
steamtrain wrote:
Yes, and you're not the only one. Please note there are no reviews from trustworthy reviewers available yet.
As long as there's no review covering AF-speed available this is the best we can do at the moment.
I will stop as soon as that review is providing decent information, but until then it's related enough in my opinion.
That discussion sure is great but very abstract, unless you can provide some info on how the AF motor in this SY actually behaves. Preferably compared to the Tamron as that might be one of the biggest differentiators between the lenses.
You can create a separate topic on linear vs stepper motors and I'm sure nobody will object .
Now, to stay on topic, in my (limited) experience new SY linear-stepper motors (85/1.4 AFII) are a bit quicker than Sigma's stepper-stepper (85/1.4 DN) but feel a bit less consistent and handle movement/action even worse (which was a surprise to me).
jwpstl wrote:
If you think yours in considerably worse than what was seen in reviews, I'd exchange it for another and see if there's a difference.
The problem is if they don't consider it a defect I can't exchange it. The price has gone up nearly $100 since I preordered it and I also used the 10% off coupon(and for some reason, it didn't charge me tax). It's getting dangerously close to buying a gently used Tamron price. If someone sends them an email saying they think xyz isn't right and they just respond with it's not a problem I question how their warranty support would work for other issues honestly so now debating going tamron. Might really not be worth dealing with them.
Does it creep when just turning the lens upside-down or do you need to shake / walk with it a bit?
My Tamron seems still quite resilient (lock off) to creep, but then I mostly put the lock on when I put it in my bag or walk longer distances when attached to my belt.
j4nu wrote:
Does it creep when just turning the lens upside-down or do you need to shake / walk with it a bit?
My Tamron seems still quite resilient (lock off) to creep, but then I mostly put the lock on when I put it in my bag or walk longer distances when attached to my belt.
If the lens is pointing straight down it will nearly immediately go to 100mm then slowly creep up past that to 135 and eventually 150mm. If it's slightly angled like your walking around taking pictures but you know.. being relaxed. It will start to creep from 35mm but while walking it seems like it creeps much easier as each hit of your foot I guess causes a slight downward force on the whole body. I'd say pointed about 25 to 30 degrees downward but don't quote me on the amount of degrees.
My Canon 16-35 developed creep and was very frustrating trying to take some angled shots in the Lower Antelope Canyon as the lens decides to change focal lengths on you.
chez wrote:
My Canon 16-35 developed creep and was very frustrating trying to take some angled shots in the Lower Antelope Canyon as the lens decides to change focal lengths on you.
Ironically one of the places I plan on using this lens is there lol
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