p.3 #1 · Total beginner, just bought A7 IV, can you recommend lens combination?
beginner2023 wrote:
Thanks! I'll keep Tamron 35-150 in mind. As for 50mm, it's cheap enough to buy for sure - but maybe better to buy the much more expensive 20G or Tamron 17-28mm just because it both complements the 28-200 and from what I've seen, takes really impressive photos. The 50mm is the most lightweight, but its use case might be limited if the photo quality does not exceed Tamron 28-200 at similar focal length?
From my perspective the Tamron 35-150 would be a bad choice for your first lens. It’s expensive and big and heavy and coming from a p&s, your Tamron will feel like a canon. I think the 28-200 is a very good lens to start with and learn how to effectively use the different focal lengths and tune in your vision to the varying focal lengths. Once you find the focal lengths that excite you, you can then expand ( if need be ) to other lenses.
p.3 #2 · Total beginner, just bought A7 IV, can you recommend lens combination?
No. The 50 1.8 is a fast lens. The term fast refers to fast shutter speed.
A fast lens:
1/ can be good in low light but not neccessarily for all low light.
2/ given the same ISO, results in a faster shutter speed (compared to a slow lens)
3/ given the same shutter speed, results in lower ISO (compared to a slow lens)
4/ can provide much shallower depth of field (compared to a slow lens)
All above are part of the exposure triangle, the fundamentals of photography.
We have now started the in depth discussion of aperture and it's relationship to ISO, shutter speed and DOF.
A fast lens can do everything a slow lens can.
A slow lens can only be a slow lens.
That's why I suggested getting a 28-200 and using it. Down the track, all above will be much easier to understand and your next lens purchase, if you want to, will be an informed decision rather than a guess.
If you did get a 50 1.8 now, with the 28-200, you will have a good zoom and a fast 50mm. If you get a 17-28, you will have a slow zoom and a fast for a zoom but overall slow 17-28. ie, two slow lenses.
If you just wait, after using the 28-200, maybe you will choose a fast 24, 35, 50 or 85. Maybe even the G 20 1.8.
Maybe you will decide a 70-200 2.8 or 35-150 2-2.8, or 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 combination.
Maybe you'll be happy with just the 28-200
Many FM members have bought and sold well over 10 lenses to arrive at their current kit and will continue to make changes. For some it would be 20 or 30 lenses. There is no correct answer but starting with just the 28-200 will start you on your way to deciding what is correct for you. Covering 28-200 with the quality of results it produces is a new situation not available until very recently.
When I started in the mid '80s, I had a 28-80 slow lens and a 50 1.7. At the time 28-80 was a new thing, replacing the more common 35-70. I took advice from friends regards lens choice and looking back, I like their advice.
You have ability to change ISO. I had to change ISO by changing film (ASA). Therefore it made sense to start with both slow zoom and fast 50. Further, fast 50s are good and cheap. Were then and still are.
beginner2023 wrote:
@AmbientMike@ OK, I guess I do lean back towards getting a wide angle now. But I don't think 20G or 17-28mm are good for macro right? At least some reviews are dissing wide angles as macros, despite that there're some decent macro sample images.
@Choderboy@ I see, good point, the 1.8 would mostly be better in indoor/low light situation then?
Mar 08, 2023 at 09:42 PM
AmbientMike Offline • • • • • • [X]
p.3 #3 · Total beginner, just bought A7 IV, can you recommend lens combination?
beginner2023 wrote:
@AmbientMike@ OK, I guess I do lean back towards getting a wide angle now. But I don't think 20G or 17-28mm are good for macro right? At least some reviews are dissing wide angles as macros, despite that there're some decent macro sample images.
@Choderboy@ I see, good point, the 1.8 would mostly be better in indoor/low light situation then?
I'd recommend 90-105mm macro. Longer can be better but might be a bit much to start. I photograph a lot of bugs, stuff that flies off. So the longer focal length lets me be further from the bug/butterfly, before it flies. I suppose you might get interesting photos having more of the background using ultra wide lenses for a macro. But I never really got into it, mostly use 180mm and up.
A lot of <$300 90-105mm macros out there you might look at adapting. Maybe Canon 100mm non IS or sigma or something
p.3 #4 · Total beginner, just bought A7 IV, can you recommend lens combination?
@JD07 - thanks for all the details thoughts - I definitely agree with you. Sounds like 50mm 1.8 is well worth getting and trying out.
@chez - again, thanks! I'm convinced on 50mm 1.8 now, seems many members felt it's a good inexpensive one to try out first. As for the weight argument against 35-150mm, I definitely agree with you. Coming from RX100, A7 IV with a lens is already feeling heavy (I got the camera and 28-200 yesterday and just took a few photos for now - felt quite heavy, and I need to learn the settings for sure. For now my photos didn't feel better than RX100, I'm sure it's my problem rather than this combo, which should be much better than my 10-plus-year-old RX100). If I get a heavier lens, I must be convinced that I would want it and in fact use it enough to justify it.
@Choderboy - You ventured into beyond my understanding right now but I appreciate the introduction! It makes sense and indeed I will try the 50mm 1.8. I probably do not have enough passion and time for photography to be nearly as knowledgeable and good as most members here, but I'll try learning! I do want to get really good memories saved as we travel. Thanks!
@AmbientMike - That's great suggestions! My son would love to photograph bugs, and being able to do it without getting too close definitely matters. Do you have any particular macro or two to recommend? $300 sounds like a good place for me to get one for him. Appreciate it!
p.3 #5 · Total beginner, just bought A7 IV, can you recommend lens combination?
Before you go too far down the macro path, consider an achromatic magnifier. I like macro, but I rarely shoot it. The Nisi achromatic magnifier is quite nice and works well with the 28-200 and is only $120.
I like the advice given earlier about just shooting with the 28-200 makes a lot of sense. You may not like 50mm. You may not like 35mm. Maybe 85mm is what really does it for you. I've learned over the years not to buy something just because it is cheap. For me at least, every time I've purchased a lens because it was cheap, I have eventually sold it. Buy the focal length prime you really enjoy, not what is cheap. Unless what you really enjoy happens to be cheap.
p.3 #6 · Total beginner, just bought A7 IV, can you recommend lens combination?
Hello, welcome to the forum.
1. Sigma 105mm F2.8 DG DN Macro Art
2. SONY 55mm F1.8 Sonnar T FE ZA (renewed)
3. Either Sony 85mm F/1.8 or Zeiss Batis 85mm F/1.8 second hand. I'd personally go with the Batis.
As for zooms I think the Tamron 17-28 along with the 28-200 would make for a nice light weight travel kit.
Whatever you decide I hope it makes you happy. Enjoy your stay at FM.🙂
p.3 #7 · Total beginner, just bought A7 IV, can you recommend lens combination?
@Newenglandrocks Thanks - I'll study APO magnifier. I just tried to Google "apo magnifier for tamron 28-200" and the 2nd link was to this thread, with your suggestion of APO magnifier! So I guess Google happenend to spider this site a bit over an hour ago or they're doing indexing so insanely fast now (unlikely).
@princeharbinger Thank you! I'll keep those lenses in mind for my next lens. So many things to learn for my first mirrorless + lens for now already.
Mar 09, 2023 at 07:10 PM
AmbientMike Offline • • • • • • [X]
p.3 #8 · Total beginner, just bought A7 IV, can you recommend lens combination?
beginner2023 wrote:
@AmbientMike@@ - That's great suggestions! My son would love to photograph bugs, and being able to do it without getting too close definitely matters. Do you have any particular macro or two to recommend? $300 sounds like a good place for me to get one for him. Appreciate it!
I'd recommend looking into a Canon EF- Sony adapter. It's not necessarily that hard to find a Canon EF mount 90-105mm macros lens for under $350 or so, used, I've seen Sigma & Tokina for under $300 on here recently. People complain about the adapters, but 3-4 years ago we were to get rid of our DSLR'S and use the adapters on Sony, and they worked well. Or so we were told. Probably OK imo. If you are looking to buy native, the Tokina 100/2.8 Firin is $469 on sale. They say all macro lenses are good, not sure I'd go that far but quality shouldn't be an issue. 150mm-180mm macros available used not sure if you want to go that route probably harder than 90-105mm.
I haven't heard of diopters referred to as APO magnifiers (at least I believe that's what is being referred to) but they can very useful. You have 1 element and 2 element diopters. Either can be great, but if you're looking at higher magnification the 2 element can be better. The problem is you can spend enough money getting tubes, dioptets, etc that you can get close to the cost of macro lens if not more.
It is kinda hard to get focused, you'll probably have to shoot several. You want at least 1:1 macro, that said if you get the Canon adapter, I use the 55-250 lots (I shoot Canon.) Longer focal length, not as close focusing as 1:1 macro, but 250mm gets you closer. Great for medium to large butterflies imo. Kinda hard to cover it all, feel free to ask more questions
p.3 #9 · Total beginner, just bought A7 IV, can you recommend lens combination?
beginner2023 wrote:
@Newenglandrocks@ Thanks - I'll study APO magnifier. I just tried to Google "apo magnifier for tamron 28-200" and the 2nd link was to this thread, with your suggestion of APO magnifier! So I guess Google happenend to spider this site a bit over an hour ago or they're doing indexing so insanely fast now (unlikely).
@princeharbinger@ Thank you! I'll keep those lenses in mind for my next lens. So many things to learn for my first mirrorless + lens for now already.
Oops - I got the term wrong. You want an achromatic magnifier...
p.3 #10 · Total beginner, just bought A7 IV, can you recommend lens combination?
Welcome and congratulations on the A7IV! Regarding lenses, this can be a difficult decision to make. Looking at your list of needs, I would start off slow.
Take a look at the new Sony 20-70 f/4 G lens. It covers a fantastic range, which would be greatly suited for travel. It'll also help you discover your gaps and needs. I never truly found myself needing a lot of telephoto for travel. If I did, I would get a lens that's better suited for it. Pair it with a fast prime and you'll have what you need while finding out future needs later.
Another recommendation is the Sony 16-35 f/4 G PZ lens. This is fantastic for travel and you can kit it with a 50mm lens and a 90 mm lens. Your 90mm macro can pull a bit of double duty acting as a telephoto lens when you need it.
You can also rent lenses as well as a try before you buy.
@Newenglandrocks Thanks for clarification, I found the filter above and I guess that's the easiest implementation of your suggestion. But I don't see one for 67mm yet. Will search a bit more.
@HenryVIII I'll keep those lenses in mind while I learn my A7IV and play with the Tamron. Loved some photos so far, unimpressed by others - I'm sure it's because of me rather than the camera.
Thanks again everyone! Love how knowledgeable and helpful this community is!
p.3 #12 · Total beginner, just bought A7 IV, can you recommend lens combination?
Prime snob here, but tired of lugging and swapping lenses while traveling.
Last year I bought a Tamron 28-75 2.8 g2 as a small general purpose travel lens prior to a big trip, with the intent that I would sell it afterwards. I assumed that I'd be limited by the 2.8 aperture...
BUT...
The image quality amazed me. I found 2.8 was fast enough to isolate the subject. Focus was fast and accurate. I decided to keep the lens, and it is now on one of my bodies pretty much at all times.
BUT...
28 isn't wide enough when traveling. So I also brought a tiny Rokinon 24mm 1.8 to bring as well. Another lens that punches above its cost and size.
BUT...
24 isn't wide enough either. And I was finding that on the 24mm I was generally shooting stopped down to get the depth of field I was looking for, so the 1.8 wasn't REALLY necessary.
SO...
I have since bought the 20-40 Tamron 2.8, hopefully that will do the trick while traveling.
Yes tbe 7pro is so good that I consider it a 2nd body. Yes it takes 'flat' and over sharpened / over saturated photos. It bugs me, but most people don't even notice, including my GF.
The computational photography is so good that nearly zero post processing is needed to get a 'good enough' photo. It's not a real camera, but it's getting close.
There is no way I would bother lugging around a slow 20-70 f4 or a 24-105 f4 when something like a 7pro or iPhone 14 is available.
TLDR Travel Findings:
- The primes stay at home these days
- 24mm isn't wide enough
- The Tamron 2.8 zooms punch above thier size/weight
- I'm finding that a good phone is far more convenient and almost as useful as a slow zoom
- Your results may vary...
p.3 #13 · Total beginner, just bought A7 IV, can you recommend lens combination?
@MitchB Thanks a lot for your comments! You sound like a few members and also me, I would hate to carry heavy stuff around unless absolutely have to. I'll try my 28-200 for now and could upgrade to 28-75 if I find not needing the focal lengths much. I assume I'd find the long focal range still useful.
As for cellphone photos - that's exactly why I don't know where I even put my RX100. RX100 still takes better photos, but the cellphone sensors are getting good enough, and the features available on cellphones are just not matched by camera. No post processing needed usually - and that indeed is very important. I usually record a moment, not trying to impress others. Of course, if I could do both in the future, I won't mind. But not worth spending too much time/effort/money.
@Newenglandrocks@ Thanks for clarification, I found the filter above and I guess that's the easiest implementation of your suggestion. But I don't see one for 67mm yet. Will search a bit more.
@HenryVIII@ I'll keep those lenses in mind while I learn my A7IV and play with the Tamron. Loved some photos so far, unimpressed by others - I'm sure it's because of me rather than the camera.
Thanks again everyone! Love how knowledgeable and helpful this community is!...Show more →
FYI - the Nisi ships with both 67 to 77 and 72 to 77 step up rings. No need to find a perfect fit. I've mainly used it on my 70-200GMii and FE85. Good results with both
Mar 10, 2023 at 12:44 PM
AmbientMike Offline • • • • • • [X]
p.3 #15 · Total beginner, just bought A7 IV, can you recommend lens combination?
That one doesn't look too good. +10 diopter, might be not sure though. Yes you just need step up or step down rings. Nikon 5T & 6T are an example of a good quality 2 element diopters, Canon made 250D, 500D, haven't used the Nisi myself but might be just fine.
I'm not really sure what search term to use diopter doesn't really do much it seems either.
Those are probably single element diopters given the price and that it's a set. The +1, +2, +4 generally are single element AFAIK. Fine for lower magnification, I used +4 on 50mm at first, but if you are looking at using 200mm on the 28- 200 I'd really recommend the 2 element. If you can get an inexpensive Sigma EF-Sony adapter you might be able to find an inexpensive 90-105 macro and portrait lens
p.3 #18 · Total beginner, just bought A7 IV, can you recommend lens combination?
Hi, everyone - thanks again for all the suggestions! After taking the camera for a trip, I definitely like it much more than my old RX-100 and cellphones, due to much better quality/flexibility/zoom for photography. I of course dislike the bulky package compared to RX100/cellphones but each has its own usage - although RX100 is outdated and isn't used any more even if it still takes better photos than the vast majority (if not all, at least in some situations) of the current gen cellphones.
I also found myself hating to switch lenses or filters. I really enjoyed the ability to zoom in and out, so I like the Tamron 28-200 quite a bit and rarely used the 50mm FE. Since I'd never become a semi-professional photographer anyhow, I imagine that when I upgrade, I'd only go for a high quality zoom lens with the most used focal lengths. The current Tamron is really good for my purposes - a wide angle might be still a good supplement. But I'll play some more before deciding on that.
The macro filters do work, although I haven't tested them much. I'll let my son test them and see how he likes them.
Overall I enjoyed the camera and taking photos with it, and thanks again everyone!
p.3 #19 · Total beginner, just bought A7 IV, can you recommend lens combination?
If you're still thinking of astro you might want to look at the Sigma 14-24 f/2.8. It's a little bulky but it's very good lens. It's also not an expensive lens. They even show up used often on the b&s forum.
But I don't think 20G or 17-28mm are good for macro right? At least some reviews are dissing wide angles as macros, despite that there're some decent macro sample images.
I just tried to Google "apo magnifier for tamron 28-200" and the 2nd link was to this thread, with your suggestion of APO magnifier! So I guess Google happenend to spider this site a bit over an hour ago or they're doing indexing so insanely fast now (unlikely).