p.5 #1 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
If there is a big announcement on Oct 30 I hope they say Apple fixed whatever is preventing Adobe or use the unified memory thing, but I doubt it. It also effected DXO colours.
p.5 #3 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
Zenon Char wrote:
RAM matters. Get as much as you can afford. I’m so glad I got 8GB VRAM to future proof my 2019 iMac. I knew more AI would come and at least I can use it. Adobe Denoise may take 33 seconds but Topaz PAI and PureRaw 3 both took 45 seconds. PR2 took 23 seconds.
The RAM isn't the issue with Adobe's AI DeNoise, it's GPU cores and what capabilities those cores have and of course the fact that right now whatever bug that exists with the ANE (software or hardware, we don't know) means Adobe can't yet use it. It's annoying that neither Apple or Adobe have had anything to say about this tbh.
p.5 #4 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
Zenon Char wrote:
If there is a big announcement on Oct 30 I hope they say Apple fixed whatever is preventing Adobe or use the unified memory thing, but I doubt it. It also effected DXO colours.
This last statement is incorrect, to the best of my knowledge.
p.5 #5 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
ruthenium wrote:
This last statement is incorrect, to the best of my knowledge.
No, it's 100% correct. DxO came up with a workaround, but they have the same problem using the ANE. Both DxO and Adobe have said it's an Apple bug. No word about it at all from Apple.
p.5 #6 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
ruthenium wrote:
This last statement is incorrect, to the best of my knowledge.
Which part? I'm pretty sure I read here Oct 30. There are threads out there about colour shifting issues using DeepPrime because of Apples Neural engine. DXO I think found a work around but I don't know the details because I don't use DXO.
p.5 #7 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
docusync wrote:
I always export into PNG and it's crazy slow no matter what system/OS it's running on. Apparently it's either not optimized or isn't using any hardware acceleration.
After running Windows since 2015 I finally got a basic MacBook Pro 12/19 cores (for software development) and everything is running very smoooooth on it. Out of curiosity I tried LR Classic and while it also runs super smooth, the ML-based denoise is taking more than 1.5 minutes for a 50Mpx ARW file. In comparison, my i9-14900K + RTX4090 workstation can denoise the same 50Mpx file in 5 seconds.
That is very weird, it shouldn't be that slow on the DeNoise at all. That sounds like your Lightroom Classic isn't using the GPU to process the denoise. You should check the settings and I'd open the activity monitor and make sure LRC is hitting the GPU when it's doing DeNoise--it should hit it hard. The DeNoise scales very linearly with GPU cores and your laptop should be running that much, much faster than what you are seeing.
As for the RTX 4090, it's the fastest you can get for the AI DeNoise right now, although an M2 Ultra is pretty close behind it.
p.5 #8 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
jhapeman wrote:
The RAM isn't the issue with Adobe's AI DeNoise, it's GPU cores and what capabilities those cores have and of course the fact that right now whatever bug that exists with the ANE (software or hardware, we don't know) means Adobe can't yet use it. It's annoying that neither Apple or Adobe have had anything to say about this tbh.
Yes that part I know. RAM is key for the entire operation. More AI will come from multiple developers.
p.5 #9 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
Zenon Char wrote:
Yes that part I know. RAM is key for the entire operation. More AI will come from multiple developers.
Forgot to say. Based on what I reed iIt appears to be Apple but you can’t trust either side to admit to anything. I would think Adobe would have more incentive to correct the problem which is pretty significant. Not a slow performing brush. They have have the resources and is direct competition with other NR AI apps. Apple might not have same fire lit behind them. But who knows and those who do won’t say. I also didn’t do all the testing others here have done.
p.5 #10 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
Zenon Char wrote:
Which part? I'm pretty sure I read here Oct 30. There are threads out there about colour shifting issues using DeepPrime because of Apples Neural engine. DXO I think found a work around but I don't know the details because I don't use DXO.
The last statement "It also effected DXO colours" is literally incorrect. If you are interested in comparing Adobe colors with the "affected" DxO, please make a raw file available and I will process this in DxO Photolab 7. Then we can post and compare the jpgs from you (from Adobe) and DxO. PL7 makes a full use of the GPU and neural engine for denoising on my MacBook Pro M2 Max.
p.5 #11 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
ruthenium wrote:
The last statement "It also effected DXO colours" is literally incorrect. If you are interested in comparing Adobe colors with the "affected" DxO, please make a raw file available and I will process this in DxO Photolab 7. Then we can post and compare the jpgs from you (from Adobe) and DxO. PL7 makes a full use of the GPU and neural engine for denoising on my MacBook Pro M2 Max.
Go dig around on their website. There IS a bug the ANE code and when running denoise in DxO, it caused color shift problems. They created a workaround on their end to fix this problem. Adobe has disabled the ANE for their denoise for what is presumably the exact same bug. Both companies have stated that they are waiting for a fix of the bug by Apple.
There's thread about this on Apple's support website but no response from Apple on it.
p.5 #12 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
jhapeman wrote:
Go dig around on their website. There IS a bug the ANE code and when running denoise in DxO, it caused color shift problems. They created a workaround on their end to fix this problem. Adobe has disabled the ANE for their denoise for what is presumably the exact same bug. Both companies have stated that they are waiting for a fix of the bug by Apple.
There's thread about this on Apple's support website but no response from Apple on it.
Let me restate. DxO PL 7 fully utilizes the GPU and the neural engine of my MacBook pro M2 Max for DeepPRIME denoising. This does not cause the colors to degrade/shift. Claims to the contrary are incorrect and I would be happy to provide a jpg exported from PL7 for comparison with one from Adobe, if anyone is interested in sharing a raw file and their Adobe processed jpg.
I cannot comment on how DxO works and if they use a workaround, if any. The bottom line, everything works for me as a user as it should in DxO PL7, without a loss of performance or image quality.
p.5 #13 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
ruthenium wrote:
Let me restate. DxO PL 7 fully utilizes the GPU and the neural engine of my MacBook pro M2 Max for DeepPRIME denoising. This does not cause the colors to degrade/shift. Claims to the contrary are incorrect and I would be happy to provide a jpg exported from PL7 for comparison with one from Adobe, if anyone is interested in sharing a raw file and their Adobe processed jpg.
I cannot comment on how DxO works and if they use a workaround, if any. The bottom line, everything works for me as a user as it should in DxO PL7, without a loss of performance or image quality. ...Show more →
It works for you because DXO found a work around. Previous to that fix there were complaints on multiple sites.
p.5 #14 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
ruthenium wrote:
Let me restate. DxO PL 7 fully utilizes the GPU and the neural engine of my MacBook pro M2 Max for DeepPRIME denoising. This does not cause the colors to degrade/shift. Claims to the contrary are incorrect and I would be happy to provide a jpg exported from PL7 for comparison with one from Adobe, if anyone is interested in sharing a raw file and their Adobe processed jpg.
I cannot comment on how DxO works and if they use a workaround, if any. The bottom line, everything works for me as a user as it should in DxO PL7, without a loss of performance or image quality. ...Show more →
Seriously, do you read? I and others have said DxO made a workaround. So yes, it works NOW but not the way it is supposed to work.
p.5 #15 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
The reason I bought that up is Adobe not using the Neural Engine properly very well may be an issue on Adobe's side. However since another developer is having issues then it appears there is something going on Apple's side. Again who knows and those that do won't say. Hopefully this gets fixed. I don't mind 33 seconds on my iMac but it would be nice to slice the 115 on my Air in half.
At least the Denoise file sizes are ⅓ of the size. That was a big one.
p.5 #16 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
ruthenium wrote:
Let me restate. DxO PL 7 fully utilizes the GPU and the neural engine of my MacBook pro M2 Max for DeepPRIME denoising. This does not cause the colors to degrade/shift. Claims to the contrary are incorrect and I would be happy to provide a jpg exported from PL7 for comparison with one from Adobe, if anyone is interested in sharing a raw file and their Adobe processed jpg.
I cannot comment on how DxO works and if they use a workaround, if any. The bottom line, everything works for me as a user as it should in DxO PL7, without a loss of performance or image quality. ...Show more →
I know DXOPhotoLab put in a workaround in one of the later ver 6 firmware updates. But I never saw any official announcement that Apple fixed this problem and implemented by DXO in ver PHL 7 ( maybe something changed in macOS Sonoma?) Do you have an official reference/communication from DXO? I have been wondering about this, but maybe I missed something.
p.5 #17 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
LBJ2 wrote:
I know DXOPhotoLab put in a workaround in one of the later ver 6 firmware updates. But I never saw any official announcement that Apple fixed this problem and implemented by DXO in ver PHL 7 ( maybe something changed in macOS Sonoma?) Do you have an official reference/communication from DXO? I have been wondering about this, but maybe I missed something.
There has been no official announcement to any fix by Apple that I have come across. I'm running Sonoma and there has been no fix for Adobe. I don't use DXO so I can't say. I would probably check out their forums for an accurate answer.
p.5 #18 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
Zenon Char wrote:
The reason I bought that up is Adobe not using the Neural Engine properly very well may be an issue on Adobe's side. However since another developer is having issues then it appears there is something going on Apple's side. Again who knows and those that do won't say. Hopefully this gets fixed. I don't mind 33 seconds on my iMac but it would be nice to slice the 115 on my Air in half.
At least the Denoise file sizes are ⅓ of the size. That was a big one.
Given the hardware limitations of the Air (CPU cores, GPU cores, RAM, Memory Bandwidth) having reduced hardware capacity ... one needs to have reasonable expectations compared to other setups. I liked the MBA 15, but the processing reduction was noticeable, so I returned mine and got the MBP instead.
p.5 #19 · UPDATED: Lightroom Benchmarking: M2 and M1 Macs and PCs
RustyBug wrote:
Given the hardware limitations of the Air (CPU cores, GPU cores, RAM, Memory Bandwidth) having reduced hardware capacity ... one needs to have reasonable expectations compared to other setups. I liked the MBA 15, but the processing reduction was noticeable, so I returned mine and got the MBP instead.
The Air is for travel and I have nothing but time when we go for our annual winter getaway. If Apple fixes the issue it should speed it up. I can live with 115 seconds but I'd happier if it was faster.
My iMac will hopefully see two more years. I don't think I'll be able to upgrade to whatever comes after Sonoma which will be fine. I'll still get security updates. I'm fine with 33 seconds until my new one but I expect Adobe to improve before then. Also they are looking at not requiring a DNG for Denoise.
I and others have said DxO made a workaround. So yes, it works NOW but not the way it is supposed to work.