p.4 #1 · Leica M10-R Black Chrome is now discontinued
retrofocus wrote:
This would be close to my suggested EVF-based hybrid camera. I highly doubt that the SL suddenly gets a much smaller body size, but yes, if such model is similar to Leica M size, this is the option I refer to. I related more to Leica Q because this one is already small in body size. I personally hope for M-mount instead of larger L-mount but this is subjective since I only use M/LTM lenses and have no interest in AF capabilities.
I use the SL2-S as mainly a platform for M lenses, so I also have limited interest in AF lenses.
Someone at Leica was recently quoted as saying the SL3 would not be much smaller, so you're probably right on that.
As for EVF-M (which you would prefer) versus a smaller, rangefinder-style SL3 (that I would prefer): The L-mount is only larger in diameter. The M-mount flange distance is actually deeper than the L-mount flange distance. This means that using the L-mount would mean the camera can be much thinner and still have room for IBIS. Take a look at the SL2 from above and picture an M-mount adapter on the front of it. That's how thick an EVF-M would have to be to include IBIS if it uses the current IBIS mechanism from the SL2. I don't think you would want the EVF-M to be that thick.
Flange distances (influences thickness of camera):
p.4 #2 · Leica M10-R Black Chrome is now discontinued
rscheffler wrote
I thought Leica is marketing the new M6 as having updated electronics? So it would seem it's not just the 'old' M6 under the hood. That said, how complicated can those electronics be compared to a digital camera?
Updated compared to the original M6 from 40 years ago. But the same electronics as the current MP which has been made for, what, 20 years now?
The new M6 is just a cosmetically adjusted MP. There have been claims that things are different under the hood, but w/o any specifics just insinuations. So if you believe that, well, I got a bridge I can sell you.
What I do know is my brand new M6 scratches film, while my old MP does not. So there is that difference. I’ll be getting it back on Friday after a 5 week wait (for a brand new camera..) and I really hope Leica fixed it.
p.4 #3 · Leica M10-R Black Chrome is now discontinued
flash wrote:
Not at low ISO's so much but beyong ISO6400 it sure does. 25K on the M10M is actually usable.... Very usable.
I think of my M10M as the camera that doesn't need IBIS.
Gordon
Fair enough. I guess I neglected to mention that my M10M is the camera that can see in the dark
I really like the grain/noise structure as the iso goes up on the M10M also. I’ve contemplated using an ND at times just so I can shoot at a higher ISO. Not kidding.
p.4 #5 · Leica M10-R Black Chrome is now discontinued
highdesertmesa wrote:
In addition to PDAF, Leica does need to make the SL3 smaller than the SL2. I think a small SL plus M adapter would be more versatile than an EVF M-mount camera.
Actually I think they need to make a smaller camera in ADDITION to the SL-3. There's a place for bigger cameras in a line up and they're MUCH better for larger lenses of which L mount has many. Fuji have th XH2 and XT5. Canon have the R3 and R5. Nikon make a Z9 alongside the Z7II. Leica could go the XT/XPro approach, wher they have the Hybrid SL-3 and a photography focused smaller RF style body. The problem isn't the SL2. It's that it's your only option. Has the SL2-S been S5 sized I think reactions would be different.
I think we have three main wish lists/options here.
1. A Q series, with the same basic camera but with more focal lengths. A Q328, Q350 and Q390 for example.
2. An EVF based camera that takes M lenses. (The Leica *E* I proposed some time ago). Could have all the bells an whistles like IBIS as well because it's not going to offent the purists. Native M mount but probably Q shaped and slightly larger than an M10 to accomodate the IBIS unit.
3. A smaller L mount body. RF styled. Photography focused or maybe even photography only. The size would have some heat management implications. Takes M lenses via an adaptor.
Some poor boffin at Leica would have to decide which is Gold and which is Lead......
p.4 #6 · Leica M10-R Black Chrome is now discontinued
flash wrote:
Actually I think they need to make a smaller camera in ADDITION to the SL-3. There's a place for bigger cameras in a line up and they're MUCH better for larger lenses of which L mount has many. Fuji have th XH2 and XT5. Canon have the R3 and R5. Nikon make a Z9 alongside the Z7II. Leica could go the XT/XPro approach, wher they have the Hybrid SL-3 and a photography focused smaller RF style body. The problem isn't the SL2. It's that it's your only option. Has the SL2-S been S5 sized I think reactions would be different.
I think we have three main wish lists/options here.
1. A Q series, with the same basic camera but with more focal lengths. A Q328, Q350 and Q390 for example.
2. An EVF based camera that takes M lenses. (The Leica *E* I proposed some time ago). Could have all the bells an whistles like IBIS as well because it's not going to offent the purists. Native M mount but probably Q shaped and slightly larger than an M10 to accomodate the IBIS unit.
3. A smaller L mount body. RF styled. Photography focused or maybe even photography only. The size would have some heat management implications. Takes M lenses via an adaptor.
Some poor boffin at Leica would have to decide which is Gold and which is Lead......
I agree. I didn't mean the SL3 needed to be A7-small, but probably R5-sized; that is, smaller than the SL2 but still big enough to use with large lenses.
Good list. I think the EVF-M will be the M12, with or without IBIS. If anything, they will have dual offerings of traditional M and EVF-M. Most profitable would of course be a Q3 in multiple focal lengths. Many of us would buy a "kit" of multiple Q bodies 28/50/90 and use that as an alternative to everything else we own. I think that would be additive profit and not take away from the M or SL.
p.4 #7 · Leica M10-R Black Chrome is now discontinued
flash wrote:
Actually I think they need to make a smaller camera in ADDITION to the SL-3. There's a place for bigger cameras in a line up and they're MUCH better for larger lenses of which L mount has many.
I agree but will the SL-3 have a future after the Leica mirrorless medium format camera is released?
Leica has already confirmed a few times that it is working on such a camera.
Is the Leica user group large enough to support both a high MP FF camera and a medium format camera? I have my doubts.
p.4 #9 · Leica M10-R Black Chrome is now discontinued
highdesertmesa wrote:
The S series is so very expensive even for Leica, it rarely competes for the same dollars that are spent on SL gear.
True but a lot of S-shooters moved to the SL as Leica stopped investing in the S-system 10 years ago... if they go back to i will make the SL-3 user pool even smaller...
p.4 #11 · Leica M10-R Black Chrome is now discontinued
SlowDriver wrote:
True but a lot of S-shooters moved to the SL as Leica stopped investing in the S-system 10 years ago... if they go back to i will make the SL-3 user pool even smaller...
There weren't many S-shooters to begin with, though. "A lot" might be three people in that context
