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NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

robfilms
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

I have read/watched many, many, many vids debating Lightroom vs Capture One vs some other piece of software used to process Fuji's RAF raw files.

Call me thick but Capture One (free) does not work for me.

I have tried to learn Capture One.

There is something about the UI that doesn't work for me.

(I am not blaming Capture One. I am acknowledging it is me)

But if I rely on LR to process my X-T1 and X-T2 RAF files, will I REALLY regret my decision to use just Lightroom?

(do you need to pixel peep to see the worms?)

I use my Fuji's for mostly street and travel.

I try not to push the ISO beyond 6400.

PLEASE NO FLAME WARS.

I am truly asking those with much more Fuji RAF raw file experience than me.

Thank you in advance for your sharing.

Thumbs up.

Rob

Jan 19, 2023 at 07:40 PM

kenbennett
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

I use Lightroom, been using it since the first version. I shoot 100% Fuji, X and GFX. Been shooting Fuji professionally since 2013. I get very good results with Lightroom on my .raf files. Prints are terrific. Clients have never complained (and they have printed very, very large.)

Jan 19, 2023 at 08:00 PM

robfilms
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

kenbennett wrote:
I use Lightroom, been using it since the first version. I shoot 100% Fuji, X and GFX. Been shooting Fuji professionally since 2013. I get very good results with Lightroom on my .raf files. Prints are terrific. Clients have never complained (and they have printed very, very large.)

ken-

thank you for a quick reply.

and thank you for appreciating my effort to rely on those with more experience.

you use "just" lightroom?

no iridient x transformer?

any LR enhanced detail settings?

how about DXO Pure Raw?

again, NO FLAMING INTENDED.

thumbs up.

rob

Jan 19, 2023 at 08:11 PM

Jeffrey
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

Rob, I really don't know what's bothering you so? If you don't like a particular editing program,. then don't use it. Nobody will start a flaming war. No one here can tell if you will like Lightroom and stick with it. Or any other program for that matter. Why ask? Just shoot with whatever camera you want to and use whatever editor you want. Try a few. Make your own decision. It's not life and death.

Edited on Jan 20, 2023 at 09:27 AM · View previous versions

Jan 19, 2023 at 08:49 PM

robfilms
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

Jeffery-

Thanks for sharing.

Thumbs up.

Rob

Jan 19, 2023 at 08:55 PM

kenbennett
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

I do use the Enhance... feature occasionally. I had Iridient installed, but Enhance... does pretty much the same. Yes, 100% Lightroom for basic raw file editing. Photoshop for heavy retouching on portraits.

And, yeah, I'm with Jeffrey, there's really no flame war here. Plenty of good photographers use Lightroom, plenty of other good photographers use C1, or DXO, etc.

Jan 19, 2023 at 09:02 PM

robfilms
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

Ken-

Again, thank you for the quick and helpful reply.

Thumbs up.

Rob

Jan 19, 2023 at 09:19 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

Both people in our home are photographers and both use Fujifilm (plus other) cameras. One of us is a Lightroom-only person and the other uses the Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) and Photoshop workflow. (The underlying software behind both environments is essentially the same.)

Adobe products work fine for Fujifilm files.

Jan 19, 2023 at 09:41 PM

jeffbuzz
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

Having tried all other options, Lightroom and Photoshop are still my preference for all my file types. The automation I need is either already built in or has been easiest for me to add via LR plug-ins.

Software UX preference is a totally personal choice. Just like choosing the right camera + lens tools for a given job, choose whatever software makes your life easiest. If either one takes significant effort on your part to make it work, there's a problem with the tool.

Jan 19, 2023 at 10:06 PM

Nick Dakota
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

Never used Capture and don't intend to. I am comfortable with LR. It works well for me and my needs. That's all that matters in the end.

Jan 19, 2023 at 11:05 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

Also, regarding "worms"...

1. They are a rare occurrence.

2. They are most likely in areas with semi-random, low contrast, subjects of a single predominant color, often green. (Slightly OOF foliage at a distance is often the issue.)

3. The best way to deal with them is to keep the "details" slider in ACR or Lightroom to a very low setting, or even all the way down.

4. Interestingly, I do not see them even in problematic subject areas with the new 40MP sensor, and I can use the same higher "details" settings that I often use with Canon files.

Jan 19, 2023 at 11:15 PM

flash
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

I don’t like Capture One and it doesn’t work with all my cameras (Hasselblad). I’ve used Lightroom since V1.0. Actually I was on one of the public betas. I like LR.

I didn’t like it for earlier Fuji cameras but it has improved dramatically. However it’s still not as good as DXO. So I process in LR and then for either problematic images or ones I really like I send them to DXO from Lightroom. Not every image. Just the ones I think are worth the extra time. I do the same with Phocus for my Hasselblad files.

It’s an extra step but worth it. DXO is that good with Fujifilm Xtrans files.

Gordon

Jan 20, 2023 at 04:16 AM

lexvo
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

I am using LR to process my Fuji RAW files for years and I am happy with the results. I have tried other software in the past, but I find LR (and PS) working best for me, because:
- the user interface is well thought out, I can do many edits quickly without doing a lot of keystrokes and/or mouse movements; I found other apps were lagging behind here
- the LR library: the way I can organize and retrieve my images
- color: in LR an image opens with little 'muted' and neutral colors which is for me a great starting point for edits; in other apps images often seem to open with 'boosted' and/or shifted colors
These are personal preferences of course and surely other apps will have improved since I did the testing years ago.

As for the worms issue: I found that it can occur with slightly OOF parts of an image. And/or also when applying too much sharpening. In these cases the Enhance function can help (I myself hardly use it).

Jan 20, 2023 at 05:52 AM

Rand47
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

I’ve been a Photoshop and Lightroom (once it was released) user from day one in my digital life - after leaving the wet darkroom in about 1999.

Lightroom (LR) is great, and the recent updates, especially with the new masking tools, make is a very powerful image editor. My trips to Photoshop are getting less frequent.

The supposed worm-concerns are a non issue these days. Adobe’s default demosaicing scheme returns a more flat image (intentionally) than many other image editors. I think that’s the reason some think others are “so much better.” Silly, IMO.

BUT…. I’ve recently added something to my tool kit that I think bears mention here as regards raw development. I’m in the process of testing an additional step in my workflow for images ingested into LR - for those images I’ve then selected as “keepers” for further consideration / processing. Enter DXO Pure Raw 2, using the Deep Prime conversion method.

Here’s a video from Pal2tech on his testing and results with Fuji raf files:

The plug in for LR is slick. Easy to use and the only “penalty” in using it is the time it takes to process. Not a lot, but enough so that I’d not want to just “use it on everything” before doing some culling.

So far, my tests include files from my X-T3, X-H2, GFX 100; a friend’s Z9 and Z7II with Otus lenses. The detail extracted from the raws, and the noise handling (even at base ISO) is superior to anything I’ve used or seen - ever.

So IMO the take away for the OP is, “Heck yes, use LR! It’s fabulous.” And in combination with Pure Raw 2 “Deep Prime” for the keepers, it’s the best thing out there, period. Bold statement. I see lots of files from every camera type / processor you can imagine. I have a small fine art print studio. Everything from Phase One to micro4/3 processed in pretty much anything you can think of - so I feel qualified to make such an assertion.

Rand

Jan 20, 2023 at 07:19 AM

mdude85
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

In my experience, you need to pixel peep to see any difference between how LR processes the files and other apps.

My advice would be to continue using Lightroom. You can always run individual files through Iridient X-Transformer (or Enhance Details in LR) to extract a little bit more detail from it, just in case you are working with a file that you've cropped a lot into, or you're making a big print from.

But if you're just uploading a smaller file to social media or your website, it's not going to matter at all, because those files are going to be downsampled and compressed anyway, and then viewed on small screens where no one will be able to tell the difference.

Jan 20, 2023 at 08:23 AM

nburwell
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

I downloaded C1 for 30 days to try it out. While I liked it, I am much too used LR and PS. I didn’t see much of a difference other than UI between C1 and LR — though I don’t pixel peep. I did like how C1 handled white balance compared to LR.

In the end, its about familiarity. I’ve been using LR and PS for years over several camera systems that I have owned and it has worked for me.

Jan 20, 2023 at 09:40 AM

johndill
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

I use Lightroom almost exclusively and sometimes Photoshop, but mostly Lightroom. I have the NIK filters and Iridient, but rarely use them I don't have much issue with "worms". So, Lightroom for import and library management and whatever manipulations I may do with RAW files. I said I rarely use Iridient but I do have to change the default sharpening settings for RAW files. The Lightroom defaults don't really do the best job on X-Trans files. Simple to fix, either change manually or better yet, set up a custom preset (easy) to use on all imported RAW files. Give these settings a whirl and see what you think:

Amount 97
Radius 1.7
Detail 0 (yes, 0. Try these setting and judge for yourself)
Masking 82

These are my starting point and usually me finishing point. Works equally well on the 26 and 40 MP sensors

Jan 20, 2023 at 09:58 AM

RoamingScott
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

I used LR only for a while, until eventually settling on LR for everything but sharpening and then doing that step in PS with Unsharp Mask.

I find LR much more intuitive than other programs like C1.

Jan 20, 2023 at 10:42 AM

molson
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

robfilms wrote:
I have read/watched many, many, many vids debating Lightroom vs Capture One vs some other piece of software used to process Fuji's RAF raw files.

Call me thick but Capture One (free) does not work for me.

I have tried to learn Capture One.

There is something about the UI that doesn't work for me.

(I am not blaming Capture One. I am acknowledging it is me)

But if I rely on LR to process my X-T1 and X-T2 RAF files, will I REALLY regret my decision to use just Lightroom?

(do you need to pixel peep to see the worms?)

I use my Fuji's for mostly...Show more →

What problem are you trying to solve by using different software? If you actually have the "wormy" fractal deconvolution artifacts, you won't need to pixel-peep to see them; they are pretty obvious. If you don't see them, don't worry - just use whatever software you prefer.

The artifacts are very subject-specific and also somewhat lens-specific - I have only encountered them in landscape images with lots of fine, repeating detail patterns, and it only seems to occur with certain lenses - the 10-24 and 18-55 are the worst, but I've also seen the artifacts in some images shot with the 16mm f1.4.

If you do encounter these artifacts, processing the affected files in Capture One instead of Adobe software will give you better results, but there's no reason to switch your entire workflow just for a few affected images. Contrary to popular opinion, Detail and/or Sharpen settings in LightRoom don't affect the artifacts (unless you blur out all the fine detail in the image in order to conceal them, which is pretty pointless...)

Jan 20, 2023 at 11:36 AM

gdanmitchell
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · NO FLAME INTENDED! anyone use just LR to process their RAF files?

molson wrote:
Contrary to popular opinion, Detail and/or Sharpen settings in LightRoom don't affect the artifacts (unless you blur out all the fine detail in the image in order to conceal them, which is pretty pointless...)

The details setting absolutely can have a positive effect on the so-called worms issue.

Details settings that might make sense with files from other systems (e.g. higher details settings) can make the worms issue appear... and lowering the details setting can diminish them to the point that they are no longer visible.

This is part of a sharpening workflow that will also likely use different settings for amount and radius than one might use with non-fujifilm files, and a workflow that will use sharpening in more than one way:

1. Sharpening during raw conversion — where the general idea is to compensate for the natural "softness" of raw files.

2. Large radius "sharpening" (sometimes called local contrast enhancement) to increase contrast along light/dark borders over a radius of perhaps 50-75 pixels.

(2+.) If using Photoshop, a second "smart sharpen" operation can be useful. It is, in fact, useful with the Fujifilm files.

3. Output sharpening tailored to the image display media, whether for screen display or for print. In the latter case, some small radius/large amount sharpening may compensate for printer dot gain.

Finally, I'll repeat a bit of good news: It looks to me like the issues that led to occasional "worms" issues (and the need to alter sharpening settings to compensate) don't affect files from the 40MP sensors the way they affected 16MP, 24MP, and (I presume — I don't own one) the 26MP sensors.

Jan 20, 2023 at 11:47 AM

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