p.2 #2 · Sony White Balance / Color Science in 2023
Shoot raw and auto white, adjust to your liking in post, this isn't rocket science. There's no such thing as "white balance" when shooting raw, for all intents and purposes.
Now, if you're hard headed and using a $6000 camera to shoot JPEGs, I have no advice for you.
I'd be curious to try one of Sony's latest bodies to see if it has improved in auto, it almost always needed tweaking when shooting outdoors. Nikon has been shockingly dead on compared.
p.2 #3 · Sony White Balance / Color Science in 2023
jeffbuzz wrote:
All cameras use the same "color science". Arguing over which camera's red looker redder is like arguing over which chocolate tastes better. I like Ghirardelli and anyone who prefers Hershey's is a heathen. What is referred to as "color science" is just a default camera profile and gamma. If you don't like the default setting, change it.
I've never understood posts like this (not yours, the OP's). I have Lightroom and DXO photolab. Both allow me to easily adjust colors, both allow me to save profiles. If I don't like what I see, I change it and use my own profile. Its like saying I wont buy a Lexis because the seat sits too forward. OK - don't like it? - adjust the seat backward and leave it. What's the issue?
Moreover, adjusting white balance/color is part of PP and your vision for the photo. I change this for almost every shot depending on what I am trying to accomplish. The whole idea of "good colors" or "good WB" has always been a mystery to me. I understand skin tones...but...good color or good color science?
p.2 #4 · Sony White Balance / Color Science in 2023
galenapass wrote:
I've never understood posts like this (not yours, the OP's). I have Lightroom and DXO photolab. Both allow me to easily adjust colors, both allow me to save profiles. If I don't like what I see, I change it and use my own profile. Its like saying I wont buy a Lexis because the seat sits too forward. OK - don't like it? - adjust the seat backward and leave it. What's the issue?
Moreover, adjusting white balance/color is part of PP and your vision for the photo. I change this for almost every shot depending on what I am trying to accomplish. The whole idea of "good colors" or "good WB" has always been a mystery to me. I understand skin tones...but...good color or good color science? ...Show more →
"color science" really refers to jpeg processing in camera. think of what Fuji does, as an example. it's much harder to post process color flaws out of jpegs, so having "good color science" in your jpegs (that suits the individual photographer) is important.
p.2 #5 · Sony White Balance / Color Science in 2023
Stephen G wrote:
So I took a 5+ year break from Sony (original A7s / A7rII owner)..
Picked up an A1 for the autofocus mostly, 8k video, and long lens selection for a little birding.
Been great so far, really an amazing camera.
One thing that has irked me is the camera's AWB, especially in golden hour / sunset / twilight.
Are there any tricks / tweaks / settings I should be trying here?
The AWB seems to be much worse in these scenarios than recent offerings from Leica, Hasselblad or Sigma.
This so far has been the only aspect that feels like a step back for me....Show more →
I wonder if what irks us is not so much the AWB but the light itself?
Our normal perception of colors (the expectation of what the colors should look like in daylight) can be different from the way how the colors appear in a different light. For example, if I am in a green environment, my skin may take a shade of green. At sunset/twilight the light is "abnormal" - this can be explored for creative purposes, but I am not sure if one can make the twilight colors look "right" - similar to the daylight colors.
Basically, I expect that an image in a ghastly light would most likely look ghastly in camera even if the camera does its best about the AWB. Thus, I am more concerned about the light than I am concerned about the WB. Looking out of the window now, in the grey light of the day (freezing rain is on the forecast), I know that this is not a good day for taking my camera for a walk. One must be a really skilled photographer for producing impactful work in poor light.
p.2 #6 · Sony White Balance / Color Science in 2023
Color is for sure a matter of taste.
And some situations will always be challenging to in-camera AWB, post-processing AWB, and human manual adjustment.
I guess the summation of my problem would be:
The % of photos, once imported into LR, needing white balance post-processing, while shooting AWB default, in RAW, on the Sony A1.. is higher than on some other cameras I currently, and most previously owned.
I prefer to spend more time shooting and less time in LR.
Anything that automates my workflow facilitates this.
I spend enough hours on my computer working on software, or talking about photography :-).
I will try some of the AWB sub settings to see how that changes my experience!
p.2 #7 · Sony White Balance / Color Science in 2023
Stephen G wrote:
Color is for sure a matter of taste.
And some situations will always be challenging to in-camera AWB, post-processing AWB, and human manual adjustment.
I guess the summation of my problem would be:
The % of photos, once imported into LR, needing white balance post-processing, while shooting AWB default, in RAW, on the Sony A1.. is higher than on some other cameras I currently, and most previously owned.
I prefer to spend more time shooting and less time in LR.
Anything that automates my workflow facilitates this.
I spend enough hours on my computer working on software, or talking about photography :-).
I will try some of the AWB sub settings to see how that changes my experience! ...Show more →
The "problem", if you could call it that, is that Sony's vision of what white balance is doesn't align with yours. That's not true for everyone, since color is so subjective.
I found the same thing up through the A7R4, and like you, I think other brands do a better job at getting it closer to "right" out of the box. That's one of the many metrics we must judge a system by in order to determine if it meets our needs.
It's very, very easy to make a LR preset that only adjusts white balance to a preset value on import or applies to a bank of images with a single click, and certainly not the end of the world, nor something that should be consuming any appreciable amount of your time in LR.
p.2 #8 · Sony White Balance / Color Science in 2023
RoamingScott wrote:
The "problem", if you could call it that, is that Sony's vision of what white balance is doesn't align with yours. That's not true for everyone, since color is so subjective.
I found the same thing up through the A7R4, and like you, I think other brands do a better job at getting it closer to "right" out of the box. That's one of the many metrics we must judge a system by in order to determine if it meets our needs.
It's very, very easy to make a LR preset that only adjusts white balance to a preset value on import or applies to a bank of images with a single click, and certainly not the end of the world, nor something that should be consuming any appreciable amount of your time in LR....Show more →
Thanks Scott - I think for me a preset won't quite do it because it's not a systematic issue where every photo is off by 200K or something. It's more that a higher percentage of shots come out "off" to me, in terms of white balance, and need to be tweaked in post processing. So I end up doing single adjustments that I apply to groups shot in same lighting, same as with any other camera.. lI just have to do it 2-3x more.
p.2 #9 · Sony White Balance / Color Science in 2023
RoamingScott wrote:
"color science" really refers to jpeg processing in camera. think of what Fuji does, as an example. it's much harder to post process color flaws out of jpegs, so having "good color science" in your jpegs (that suits the individual photographer) is important.
p.2 #10 · Sony White Balance / Color Science in 2023
ruthenium wrote:
I wonder if what irks us is not so much the AWB but the light itself?
Our normal perception of colors (the expectation of what the colors should look like in daylight) can be different from the way how the colors appear in a different light. For example, if I am in a green environment, my skin may take a shade of green. At sunset/twilight the light is "abnormal" - this can be explored for creative purposes, but I am not sure if one can make the twilight colors look "right" - similar to the daylight colors.
Basically, I expect that an image in a ghastly light would most likely look ghastly in camera even if the camera does its best about the AWB. Thus, I am more concerned about the light than I am concerned about the WB. Looking out of the window now, in the grey light of the day (freezing rain is on the forecast), I know that this is not a good day for taking my camera for a walk. One must be a really skilled photographer for producing impactful work in poor light....Show more →
Right on the money, I would say.
I have used several brands, including Canon, Nikon, Leica, Fuji GFX in addition to Sony, which is currently my preferred camera system. Under the vast majority of conditions, all of them perform just fine and the AWB of each of them will render the WB beautifully and much to my liking. However, all of them have issues with mixed lighting sources. A mixture of light (ambient and artificial) sources can easily trick the camera WB. Like others have mentioned, I only shoot RAW and I do not have any issues with colors with any of them.
