p.12 #6 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
Since Leica announced officially the M6, many YouTube videos showed up where YouTubers talk about this M6. The majority of videos applauds Leica for this, and many add that this supports the film community.
Wanted to share one video link where the presenter doesn't comply with this mainstream. He makes IMO a couple good points why this will not affect the film community where I agree with.
p.12 #7 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
Really wish that Leica would have released a new M, a modernized version, with a higher speed shutter, better meter, updated viewfinder with illuminated frames as an option, and a rechargeable battery. Basically an M10 in a film version. Instead, Leica took the safest route they could with the new M6.
It appears, judging from discussions over on LUF, that Leica is making 3000 of these new M6 cameras initially. It also seems like the wait time is going to be long to get one. I think they’ll sell those 3000 cameras easily.
Ever the optimist, I am hoping that Leica may see that an updated film M camera would also sell well, and be worth the investment costs involved in producing it. That would be very good for the film “community”.
p.12 #8 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
retrofocus wrote:
Since Leica announced officially the M6, many YouTube videos showed up where YouTubers talk about this M6. The majority of videos applauds Leica for this, and many add that this supports the film community.
Wanted to share one video link where the presenter doesn't comply with this mainstream. He makes IMO a couple good points why this will not affect the film community where I agree with.
He's upset that a rumor on Leica Rumors wasn't accurate?
And Leica has 'screwed the prooch' as he says? Even though the demand for the new M6 has been bananas?
I guess he thinks Leica should not make a camera that people with actual money want to buy, but what he heard from a friend of a friend.
He should be more pi$$ed off by the other mfgs who have given up making film cameras.
Leica making stuff in Portugal saves the consumer maybe a couple o hundred bucks per item. Plus conventional wisdom has it that most of their camera stuff is already made in Portugal, but assembled in Germany. So his solution is to build them in Portugal, when they are already doing that!
p.12 #9 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
Desmolicious wrote:
He's upset that a rumor on Leica Rumors wasn't accurate?
And Leica has 'screwed the prooch' as he says? Even though the demand for the new M6 has been bananas?
I guess he thinks Leica should not make a camera that people with actual money want to buy, but what he heard from a friend of a friend.
He should be more pi$$ed off by the other mfgs who have given up making film cameras.
Leica making stuff in Portugal saves the consumer maybe a couple o hundred bucks per item. Plus conventional wisdom has it that most of their camera stuff is already made in Portugal, but assembled in Germany. So his solution is to build them in Portugal, when they are already doing that!...Show more →
As I referred to in my intro, IMO the main message from the video is that 1% of film shooters which might buy this M6 will not make a difference for film photography. A cheaper camera - in theory - definitely would what he elaborated with an example of a cheaper made M camera for half the current price of the M6. We all know that this is not the strategy which Leica is using to make business via pushing the luxury brand name but nevertheless the point in his video is spot on.
p.12 #10 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
retrofocus wrote:
As I referred to in my intro, IMO the main message from the video is that 1% of film shooters which might buy this M6 will not make a difference for film photography. A cheaper camera - in theory - definitely would what he elaborated with an example of a cheaper made M camera for half the current price of the M6. We all know that this is not the strategy which Leica is using to make business via pushing the luxury brand name but nevertheless the point in his video is spot on.
His problem is that he thinks that a luxury high end camera mfg like Leica needs to save film photography by introducing cheap cameras.
His answer is to make stuff in Portugal. Which is what Leica already is doing. Pretty sure he is unaware of that.
I'm looking forward to his next video where he complains that Porsche should sell a 911 for $30K, and they could if they built it in Botswana.
p.12 #11 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
Oldwino wrote:
Really wish that Leica would have released a new M, a modernized version, with a higher speed shutter, better meter, updated viewfinder with illuminated frames as an option, and a rechargeable battery. Basically an M10 in a film version. Instead, Leica took the safest route they could with the new M6.
It appears, judging from discussions over on LUF, that Leica is making 3000 of these new M6 cameras initially. It also seems like the wait time is going to be long to get one. I think they’ll sell those 3000 cameras easily.
Ever the optimist, I am hoping that Leica may see that an updated film M camera would also sell well, and be worth the investment costs involved in producing it. That would be very good for the film “community”. ...Show more →
Of course Leica will always in its current strategy keep production numbers of cameras lower than the demand is to avoid depreciation. Since they will use the MP fabrication line to make the M6, it is simply an addition to the M-A and M-P lines where likely especially the MP will produced to a lesser amount now to make space for the M6. Leica knows exactly what the customer core is that throws the money at this camera - there don't need to be many (couple of thousand enthusiasts/collectors) to make the M6 profitable at this price tag.
Such updated M film camera as suggested in the comment would certainly not be cheaper. Will Leica make such camera? Maybe but IMO not in the soon future.
p.12 #12 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
Desmolicious wrote:
His problem is that he thinks that a luxury high end camera mfg like Leica needs to save film photography by introducing cheap cameras.
His answer is to make stuff in Portugal. Which is what Leica already is doing. Pretty sure he is unaware of that.
I'm looking forward to his next video where he complains that Porsche should sell a 911 for $30K, and they could if they built it in Botswana.
I agree that it is a fault in the video to simplify and refer to Portugal to produce such camera cheaper. If this is true, other Leica cameras should have a much lower price tag just for this - instead even Leica Portugal based manufactured lenses and cameras are priced up highly. He should have better said in the video that Leica has no intention to produce or even release a cheaper camera - with the current luxury brand strategy in place, this won't happen. But this does not omit the question if without this strategy to release a M camera cheaper with simpler exterior parts for example - even made in Germany. It is if you pay > 50% just for the brand name currently which could be cut back. Nevertheless - again - point is that this M6 will not affect anything practically for the film community as I pointed out earlier.
p.12 #13 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
Nevertheless - again - point is that this M6 will not affect anything practically for the film community as I pointed out earlier.
Leica is the only mfg that has remained making film cameras throughout its history. Over 100 years of making film cameras. No-one else has done that. That in itself shows how much they are part of the film community. They stuck with it where all the other players bailed.
And yet Leica owes something to the film community? They sell everything they make, because of the commitment they have and had to their customer base. Which is part of the film community.
If someone can’t afford a new Leica, buy a used one. An M3, which arguably is the greatest Leica made (and also arguably the greatest film camera made) can be had for $1800. Leica would never, no matter where they built it or how they built it, release a 35mm camera at even double that price point.
Look around. Who is more committed, now and throughout their history, to the film community? The reason that
Leica has been successful is directly because their gear is expensive.
Maybe the Porsche analogy wasnt good. How about a Ferrari one? The cheapest new Ferrari is the Roma at $220k. I am a sports car enthusiast and I think it is awful that Ferrari does not support the sports car community by releasing one at the price of a Camry.
Funny thing is most people can afford a new M6. They have no problem stepping up to the latest and greatest iphone every two years. At $1200 a pop. Or buying a latte grande w the fixins every day at $6 a pop. Or financing a $50k suv. Or drinking w their friends twice a week at $150 a night. or or…
It’s about priorities.
p.12 #14 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
Desmolicious wrote:
Leica is the only mfg that has remained making film cameras throughout its history. Over 100 years of making film cameras. No-one else has done that. That in itself shows how much they are part of the film community. They stuck with it where all the other players bailed.
And yet Leica owes something to the film community? They sell everything they make, because of the commitment they have and had to their customer base. Which is part of the film community.
If someone can’t afford a new Leica, buy a used one. An M3, which arguably is the greatest Leica made (and also arguably the greatest film camera made) can be had for $1800. Leica would never, no matter where they built it or how they built it, release a 35mm camera at even double that price point.
Look around. Who is more committed, now and throughout their history, to the film community? The reason that
Leica has been successful is directly because their gear is expensive.
Maybe the Porsche analogy wasnt good. How about a Ferrari one? The cheapest new Ferrari is the Roma at $220k. I am a sports car enthusiast and I think it is awful that Ferrari does not support the sports car community by releasing one at the price of a Camry.
Funny thing is most people can afford a new M6. They have no problem stepping up to the latest and greatest iphone every two years. At $1200 a pop. Or buying a latte grande w the fixins every day at $6 a pop. Or financing a $50k suv. Or drinking w their friends twice a week at $150 a night. or or…
It’s about priorities....Show more →
p.12 #15 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
Desmolicious wrote:
Leica is the only mfg that has remained making film cameras throughout its history. Over 100 years of making film cameras. No-one else has done that. That in itself shows how much they are part of the film community. They stuck with it where all the other players bailed.
And yet Leica owes something to the film community? They sell everything they make, because of the commitment they have and had to their customer base. Which is part of the film community.
If someone can’t afford a new Leica, buy a used one. An M3, which arguably is the greatest Leica made (and also arguably the greatest film camera made) can be had for $1800. Leica would never, no matter where they built it or how they built it, release a 35mm camera at even double that price point.
Look around. Who is more committed, now and throughout their history, to the film community? The reason that
Leica has been successful is directly because their gear is expensive.
Maybe the Porsche analogy wasnt good. How about a Ferrari one? The cheapest new Ferrari is the Roma at $220k. I am a sports car enthusiast and I think it is awful that Ferrari does not support the sports car community by releasing one at the price of a Camry.
Funny thing is most people can afford a new M6. They have no problem stepping up to the latest and greatest iphone every two years. At $1200 a pop. Or buying a latte grande w the fixins every day at $6 a pop. Or financing a $50k suv. Or drinking w their friends twice a week at $150 a night. or or…
It’s about priorities....Show more →
Leica wasn't the only company making film cameras when digital already took off. As the video mentioned - Nikon did so too but stopped in 2006. Then afterwards it was only Leica. I never questioned the historic claim of Leica for film - but this is different from looking at the new M6 and its relevance here which I already stated earlier.
I disagree that "....most people can afford a new M6" as you said. This is also the point in the video in case you watched it. Maybe 1% of actual film users will get it. And this estimate might already be on the higher side.
p.12 #16 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
retrofocus wrote:
Leica wasn't the only company making film cameras when digital already took off. As the video mentioned - Nikon did so too but stopped in 2006. Then afterwards it was only Leica. I never questioned the historic claim of Leica for film - but this is different from looking at the new M6 and its relevance here which I already stated earlier.
I disagree that "....most people can afford a new M6" as you said. This is also the point in the video in case you watched it. Maybe 1% of actual film users will get it. And this estimate might already be on the higher side. ...Show more →
Leica is the only company that did not quit making 35mm film cameras. That is what I said. Nikon quit, and now does not even service ANY of its film cameras apart from the F6. And who knows how long they will service that given their record? They don't even service their manual crown jewel the FM3A.
Leica still services the M3 from 70 years ago! That is how supportive Leica is of the film community. If you own a Leica, they will do what they can to service you.
Film is expensive. If someone has decided that film is their thing, they have already decided to embark on an expensive journey if they are going to shoot a lot. People waste/allocate their funds in so many different ways - it is a choice that they make. They can redirect that spend towards buying a new Leica if they really want. But most care more about spending $200.month on multiple streaming service subscriptions, pay $50/ride for an Uber to go party during surge pricing, drop big money on a smart phone, go out to eat, smoke, drink, buy new clothes whether they need it or not, etc etc.
$6000 for a new M6 just means that someone bothered to save $1200/year to afford that over a period of 5 years. They put away about $3.25 a day into the new Leica piggy bank. If they really want a new one, if they pick the awesome M3 instead they only need to save $360/year for 5 years. About $1/day.
People are free to make their choices. Leica is selling all the film cameras they make, the new M6 has been a runaway hit talking to dealers. But some whiner on youtube (surprise surprise) is saying they messed up w/o even understanding that Leica already makes cameras where he says they should make them, fails to understand that no-one needs to actually buy a Leica, and fails to get it that if you do want to buy one, then it's on you to make that happen.
p.12 #17 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
Desmolicious wrote:
People are free to make their choices. Leica is selling all the film cameras they make, the new M6 has been a runaway hit talking to dealers. But some whiner on youtube (surprise surprise) is saying they messed up w/o even understanding that Leica already makes cameras where he says they should make them, fails to understand that no-one needs to actually buy a Leica, and fails to get it that if you do want to buy one, then it's on you to make that happen.
If you watched the video, you would have heard that he clearly said that most film shooters will opt for much cheaper film cameras to get which IMO is absolutely correct. Not many actual film shooters will buy this new M6 - this is the whole point of the video. It has nothing to do that all the M6 will be sold - this was never the question. But it won't be regular film photographers buying it but instead some rich enthusiasts/collectors as mentioned earlier. This is why the new M6 will not impact the film shooter community by its usage.
p.12 #19 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
retrofocus wrote:
If you watched the video, you would have heard that he clearly said that most film shooters will opt for much cheaper film cameras to get which IMO is absolutely correct. Not many actual film shooters will buy this new M6 - this is the whole point of the video. It has nothing to do that all the M6 will be sold - this was never the question. But it won't be regular film photographers buying it but instead some rich enthusiasts/collectors as mentioned earlier. This is why the new M6 will not impact the film shooter community by its usage. ...Show more →
And he irrationally is upset by that. Regular film photographers can buy an M6. If they so choose. They just don't want to budget for it.
Let's see who impacts the film shooter community by new camera sales:
