fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Nikon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1              3       4       5       end
  

Archive 2022 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?

  
 
fjablo
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #1 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


The AF-D 70-210mm f4-5.6 is not plasticky at all, it’s actually built very well. I got one for my D700 for 80€ on mpb and so far I like it a lot. Wouldn’t say it’s an ideal portrait lens though, a bit slow for that.

I would try to find a fully working 85mm. Who knows why the aperture is stuck (maybe dropped and optics are also off). Also, too limiting always being at f1.8.

I can find the AF-D 85mm 1.8 in excellent condition for €200. With a bit of luck you may be able to find one for less. Or look for the series E 100mm if MF is an option.



Sep 10, 2022 at 12:56 PM
Dexter75
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #2 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


AmbientMike wrote:
You're not going to touch 85/1.8 for near $65 if it's working. Just remember looking at the FL several years ago, maybe even mf and everything kinda high. Although I haven'tchecked lately I suppose. Great portrait FL. KR liked the optics on one of the maybe plasticky older ones maybe 70-210/4-5.6 ? You might look at his site. Maybe get one of those to use f/8.

My 20/2.8 pre D has a known issue of a sticky aperture. I just pull the mount off push one of the levers or something to stop it down to adapt. Wouldn't work on native
...Show more

Thanks. Yea the 85 1.8G are around $250 on Ebay right now. Not interested in any zooms, Im a prime only shooter and Im rarely more stopped down than f/2.8 for my portraits. Most the time around 1.8-2.2 Im not sure who KR is, but if its Ken Rockwell, I dont pay attention to him at all. Unless of course I want my photos on super ultra sharp mode with cartoon colors 😃 Thanks



Sep 10, 2022 at 03:59 PM
AmbientMike
Offline
• • • • • •
[X]
p.2 #3 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?




fjablo wrote:
The AF-D 70-210mm f4-5.6 is not plasticky at all, it’s actually built very well. I got one for my D700 for 80€ on mpb and so far I like it a lot. Wouldn’t say it’s an ideal portrait lens though, a bit slow for that.

I would try to find a fully working 85mm. Who knows why the aperture is stuck (maybe dropped and optics are also off). Also, too limiting always being at f1.8.

I can find the AF-D 85mm 1.8 in excellent condition for €200. With a bit of luck you may be able to find one for
...Show more

Thanks I double checked and he didn't seem to be saying that at all. Good to know about an inexpensive tele zoom in nikon. Are the optics pretty good.

The 75-150 E is a good lens too.



Sep 10, 2022 at 04:46 PM
ggx145
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #4 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


Try to get a Fujifilm S5 pro. Magic CCD sensor, same body/AF as Nikon D200. Really awesome camera, and the film look is definitely there.

Edit, I mean S5 pro.



Sep 10, 2022 at 04:55 PM
sum1sgrampa
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #5 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


ggx145 wrote:
Try to get a Fujifilm S5 pro. Magic CCD sensor, same body/AF as Nikon D200. Really awesome camera, and the film look is definitely there.

Edit, I mean S5 pro.


Or go totally nuts and grab a Fuji S3 Pro and a 35-105 D for $100 total and go out and have some fun This body is so agonizingly slow and clunky it forces you to slow down. Not really a bad thing.




24 2.8 D

  FinePix S3Pro     24mm    f/8.0    1/125s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  






  FinePix S3Pro     95mm    f/6.7    1/45s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  






  FinePix S3Pro     56mm    f/4.0    1/90s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  






  FinePix S3Pro     45mm    f/8.0    1/60s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  




Sep 10, 2022 at 06:00 PM
ggx145
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


It's wild, the Fuji colors always stand out. Man, I miss those cameras. If they had ever made a Fuji D700 or any fullframe CCD...


Sep 10, 2022 at 06:03 PM
Dexter75
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #7 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


ggx145 wrote:
Try to get a Fujifilm S5 pro. Magic CCD sensor, same body/AF as Nikon D200. Really awesome camera, and the film look is definitely there.

Edit, I mean S5 pro.


Thanks, just picked up an S5 Pro on Ebay! I had forgotten about those and thats definitely the look I was wanting in a CCD sensor. Crazy how prices have gone way up. You could get those for like $100 or less for years not that long ago. Anyhow, I got lucky and found a used camera shop selling one in fair condition that just needs a battery. Looks pretty good to me, only real wear I can see is up by the flash and underneath...



































Edited on Sep 18, 2022 at 02:26 PM · View previous versions



Sep 11, 2022 at 03:41 PM
ggx145
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


haha, I got excited over this thread and looked at exactly the same camera... Glad you took it. Happy shooting!


Sep 11, 2022 at 03:43 PM
Dexter75
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #9 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


ggx145 wrote:
haha, I got excited over this thread and looked at exactly the same camera... Glad you took it. Happy shooting!


Yea, its crazy. The next cheapest S5 is one for $295 that needs the bottom replaced and then it jumps up to $400 unless you want to buy from foreign countries, which I never do anymore. Thanks



Sep 11, 2022 at 03:50 PM
supra28
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #10 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


The S5's is my all time fave, so I had to get a 2nd as a backup and you got a deal bec both mines were about $300 over 5yrs ago. CCD sensor cameras definitely create distinct colors over CMOS and I've always preferred them. Fuji XTrans sensors come close but not quite. Been looking to get a CCD based Nikon but haven't ran across a deal yet but I do not think it would have nothing over the S5. Please share your thoughts on the D700 compared to the S5 when you've had some play time with it.

CCD Fujifilm S5pro, Sony A390, Panasonic LX5, Canon Powershot S95.
CMOS Canon 6D1, Canon 5D1, Canon 5D2, Fuji X-T1, Sony A6100



Sep 13, 2022 at 10:11 PM
YariloUA
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #11 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


I've been shooting Nikon CCD from 2007. Started with D50 and switched to D200 in 2010 due to some ergonomical issues with D50. Tried to switch to D750 in 2017 for better low light capabilities and FF image size. Fantastic camera ergonomic-wise and makes great low light pictures, but I was shocked how bad it renders colors of the caucasian skin comparing to any Nikon CCD camera. Spent around a year trying to get them right, learned a lot of color correction stuff. Eventually I ended up buying Canon 5D Mark II that was substantially better in skin rendering department. And pictures from my D750 benefitted of that purchase too, since I've made some adjustments to PP of D750 files based on comparison with 5D-II. But the camera itself, the 5D MII, is really uncomfortable to use, even comparing to D200. Phase detect AF, for example, is pretty bad comparing to my Nikons, so I was forced to use extremely slow contrast AF in LV when shooting wide open. And the colors were still not quite good as they were on D200. So after another year of shooting 5DMII I bought a Fuji S5 pro as a last chance I gave to digital before trying film. Was shooting it around half a year and decided that I still need to try film. And that was a real game changer! Now I've got a real boost in color department. The only downside was low technical specs of 135 film. I tried it with Nikon F100 and Canon 1V cameras. I ended up buying Rolleicord Vb and for now I'm quite happy with it. It gave me enough technical quality while keeping fantastic colors of the film and a vintage look of the old German glass.

Kodak advertised, back in the days of film reign, that they provide a "pleasing rendition" of the colors in their films. And that is true. On a contrary, modern digital cameras and lenses provide "technically accurate" rendition and here lies the problem for me. With film all you need to do is to shoot a picture, process and scan/print and that's it, most of the color aesthetics is already there, baked in by film manufacturer. With digital, theoretically, you have endless possibilities in twisting colors to meet your taste, but only best of the best can manage to create something that can rival film rendition out of the modern digital.

That's why I still like to shoot my D200. Film isn't cheap nowadays, especially MF (and LF prices are crazily high ) and D200 and S5 pro are cameras from the era when film still was a thing and camera's renditions were based somewhat on that "legacy" color science of "pleasing" rendition. Unfortunately, Nikon lost it's fantastic color science of the old "Modes" system when they decided to switch to "Picture control" system. The best proof of that - I can switch to "latest picture control" on my files from D200 in Nikon Studio and all the magic is gone, rendition is the same as on modern Nikon digital.

That's why, at least for me, both S5 pro and D200 are fantastic cameras even novadays. So if someone looking for "pleasing rendition", tired of modern "sterile" and "technically accurate" rendition they are the way to go in a low budget segment.

My preference from that pair (S5 pro and D200) is D200, but someone's could be S5 pro. D200 is closer to Kodak films in rendition, especially to Kodak Portra. I have some pair shots (D200 - Portra), that are almost the same in color rendition. S5 pro, obviously, is like Fuji films and also closer to Canon digital cameras look. Since I'm a huge fan of Kodak films and not so much of Fuji's and Canon's digital, I returned to my trusted D200. S5, hovever, have fantastic dynamic range because of it's Super CCD dual sensor, but it's about all obvious advantages it have to D200. D200, OTOH, compatible with latest version of modern software on both Mac and Win (try that with Fuji Hyper Utility! ), is more responsive, more comfortable to use. Have a slight resolution advantage (10MP vs 6MP). Costs less, S5 pro prices are crazy novadays. And you can buy D80 for even less with the same picture quality inside a smaller package, but with less refined ergonomics.

For my taste, the only digital "camera" that can surpass D200's rendition is Kodak Pro Back with Raw Photo Processor converter. But that is completely another beast cost- and size/weight- wise.

And here some of my recent shots on D200 and S5 pro:

Nikon D200 + AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G @ ƒ/2.0, 1/320, ISO100 (Nikon Studio + ACR)

D200_012177_NST by Yarilo, on Flickr

Fujifilm FinePix S5Pro + AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D @ ƒ/2.8, 1/1600, ISO100 (ACR with "Canon 1Ds Standard" profile)

FS5P_011021_ACR by Yarilo, on Flickr



Sep 15, 2022 at 09:35 AM
Dexter75
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


supra28 wrote:
The S5's is my all time fave, so I had to get a 2nd as a backup and you got a deal bec both mines were about $300 over 5yrs ago. CCD sensor cameras definitely create distinct colors over CMOS and I've always preferred them. Fuji XTrans sensors come close but not quite. Been looking to get a CCD based Nikon but haven't ran across a deal yet but I do not think it would have nothing over the S5. Please share your thoughts on the D700 compared to the S5 when you've had some play time with it.

CCD
...Show more

Thanks. Unfortunately Im going to have to return the S5 Pro. It appears to have a focusing issue. Its incredibly inconsistent with both my 50 1.8G or 1.8D unless stopped way down and even then, quality is not that good IMO. Both lenses work perfectly on my D700, so its not the lenses. My Nikon Coolpix P7100 produces sharper photos than the S5. I probably need to spend more time learning the S5 settings but when it has focussing issues, it really doesnt matter as its unusable for me. Anyhow, here are some sample photos of the S5 with the D700 shot under it.






















Sep 15, 2022 at 10:17 PM
supra28
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #13 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


Nice pics and great write up, but I think the S5's potential would be better shown with studio lighting. I still wouldn't mind trying one of those Nikon CCD variants though I really don't like the usage and layout of Nikon bodies, including the S5.


Sep 16, 2022 at 12:01 AM
supra28
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #14 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


Yah looks like you have a bad copy with the focus off, but colors still looks better imo. My copies do great with the 1.8D, but horrible with the 1.4
Some samples on flickr
https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjA7hgh



Sep 16, 2022 at 12:03 AM
bernardl
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


Interesting thread.

I am personally getting amazing colors and skin tones out of my CMOS sensors using C1 Pro Prostandard profiles.

P1 themselves have shown very convincing data about colors from their CMOS backs (such as the current IQ4-150) being superior to older CCD backs (IQ180 for instance).

So I am not sure it's a sensor tech problem really.



Sep 16, 2022 at 01:28 AM
YariloUA
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #16 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


bernardl wrote:
P1 themselves have shown very convincing data about colors from their CMOS backs (such as the current IQ4-150) being superior to older CCD backs (IQ180 for instance).

Modern sensors are indeed superior to older ones in pure technical specs. They can capture more "true-to-life" images.

So I am not sure it's a sensor tech problem really.
It's definitely not. Problem is within output/look profiles. At old times they were more "aesthetically pleasing" and modern are more "true-to-life" and technically correct. That's two different approaches, with former being easier for an amateur (and for professional, to a degree) to achieve final look without much effort and latter providing better starting point for a serious pro, without any "baked in" look, but require strong vision of the final version of the image and having means and skills to achieve that final look.

Old time Nikon CMOS cameras, like D2X, have the same amazing colors straight-out-the-converter as their CCD siblings. And main factor here is output profiles ("Mode" system vs "Picture control" system). Kodak SLR/n (c) is also another example of a CMOS sensor camera with an "aesthetically pleasing" colors.

But there is some caveat too. Modern Fuji cameras include film simulations, like those in S5 pro, in attempt to provide that "aesthetically pleasing" look. But, unfortunately, they are nowhere near their actual film stock's look. Something were lost along the way. At the time of S3 pro/S5 pro they were at least honest and never named them after real film stock, only cryptonyms like F1a, F1b, F1c. There was a "Fujichrome" also, but again, without specifying which one.

Colleague of mine spent half a year to match the look of his Fuji XT-4 to his S5 pro. Hi bought Color Checker SG reference target, Lumariver Profile Designer, 3D LUT Creator and spent a lot of time mastering his custom profile. Now he claims that 95% of his photos from XT-4 matches look of S5 pro just by applying his custom profile to XT-4 RAWs in Lightroom. Can't verify that claim, but his photos are definitely look much more pleasing in skintone department comparing to result from original XT-4 profiles (including "film simulations"). That's his Flickr account BTW, he also bought Cobalt profiles just for fun, to try someone else's profile to simulate S5 pro look and found it nowhere near the original S5 pro look. And that is my experience also, I yet to find any commercial solution that allows to reliably simulate the look of old CCD cameras from modern's sensors output.

Also, there is a reason why Hollywood still shoots film or use it in post-production, having all the best color correction pro in the world. And the movies/TV series that shot on actual film, usually stand out for me in their pleasing rendition, compared to ones being color corrected to simulate a film stock.

Edited on Sep 16, 2022 at 04:50 AM · View previous versions



Sep 16, 2022 at 02:42 AM
YariloUA
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #17 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


supra28 wrote:
I think the S5's potential would be better shown with studio lighting.

On the contrary, studio lightning provides easy conditions for any camera. And S5 pro and CCD Nikons mostly show their benefits in the field, if there is enough light. For example, they picking up unwanted reflections from a foliage to much lesser degree, than modern Nikons. The same is true for skin imperfections like different hue of the different part of the skin. Usually palms being pink while rest of the hand have a normal yellowish color. I experienced this first hand shooting pair of protos on D200 and D750. Is it a matter of sensor tech or "look" profiles - I don't know, but the evidence was clear for me.

Canon in their CMOS cameras and P1 in their CCD backs solved reflections/skin imperfections problem by applying a great deal of mutual contamination of the red and green channels in their sensor's CFA. Sony's CMOS sensors have better separated red and green channels and that could lead to abovementioned issues, if not solved in "look" profiles.

S5 pro also have quite strong red channel, unusual for digital sensors, which are mostly optimized for thungsten light, with red channel being the weakest one. The only digital sensors I know, that are optimized for daylight, are ones in Kodak cameras and digital backs. Kodak's sensors in P1 CCD backs and Pentax 645D camera were optimized for thungsten also.



Sep 16, 2022 at 03:14 AM
Dexter75
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #18 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


YariloUA wrote:
Old time Nikon CMOS cameras, like D2X, have the same amazing colors straight-out-the-converter as their CCD siblings. And main factor here is output profiles ("Mode" system vs "Picture control" system). Kodak SLR/n (c) is also another example of a CMOS sensor camera with an "aesthetically pleasing" colors.
.


Agreed. That’s a reason I really like the D700, has a more filmic look to it then newer Nikons. From my research, it also appears to be one of the very few Nikon-made sensors. Almost all the others are made by Sony.



Sep 16, 2022 at 11:44 AM
supra28
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #19 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


Good point. Either way, the S5's pictures studio or not, hardly needs post processing on my part. Those pictures from your friends XT4 looks exquisite BTW.


Sep 16, 2022 at 10:59 PM
YariloUA
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #20 · CCD sensor Nikon DSLR?


Dexter75 wrote:
Agreed. That’s a reason I really like the D700, has a more filmic look to it then newer Nikons. From my research, it also appears to be one of the very few Nikon-made sensors. Almost all the others are made by Sony.

According to that article: List of all Nikon DSLR cameras and their sensor manufacturer/designer, most 1-digit Nikon cameras starting from D2 were using Nikon's own sensors. And sometimes Nikon reused sensors from 1-digits in lesser models, providing a possibility to try top-shelf tech for people on a lower budget, like in case of D700 and Df models.

D700 is a fantastic camera, providing one of the most comfortable grip for my hand from any digital camera I tried. I just wish it was still CCD with "mode" system profiles. That would have been ideal camera for me.



Sep 17, 2022 at 04:08 AM
1              3       4       5       end




FM Forums | Nikon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1              3       4       5       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account