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Archive 2022 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?

  
 
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #1 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


mjm6 wrote:
THanks for the notes everyone... there's obviously a lot of ways to go with something like this and a blend of zoom and fixed could work well, especially if the fixed is a nice, compact wide angle lens.

That's essentially what I have with my GFX setup (when travelling without the full lens assortment that I have). I have the 23mm, 32-64mm and then the 100-200mm, which makes a quite complete range of coverage (with gaps, of course).

I'm not too concerned about the lenses note being able to resolve the new sensor. I con't believe most lenses are resolveing the sensor
...Show more

I don't have direct experience with the XT3 or XT4, but I share your lack of enthusiasm regarding "flippy" screens.

My feeling is that this is an interface design failure coupled with a misconception about how what might be viewed as a plus for a small group of users (vloggers, etc.) has negative effects on other users who comprise a much larger portion of the user base.

There are some excellent designs that manage to give much of the flexibility of flip-out screens without taking away the utility of full access to the screen when it is stowed and facing backwards.

In most cases, we want quick, immediate access to the rear screen for a variety of kinds of information — access to camera settings, a quick review of an image, the use of "live view" when the camera is on the tripod, shooting "smart phone style" while looking at a rear screen.

None of these things benefits from the fold-out screen that can face forward. In fact, Fujfilm's fold-out screen design frequently interfered with those uses: the deployed screen interferes with use on the tripod, folding out the screen adds an extra step, etc.

There are screen designs that resolve these issues. My wife has a Canon R on which the screen can face outward while stowed, can be flipped around to present a blank rear panel, can flip out to the side and face forward or backwards, and can tilt up and down. It is a flexible and well-designed approach.

For many of us it would be sufficient to allow the rear-facing screen to simply tilt up and down.

Dan



Sep 06, 2022 at 01:38 PM
mdude85
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p.2 #2 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


goodbokeh wrote:
I'll stand by my observations of which XF lenses are appropriate for the new 40MP sensor. The OP is starting the XF system with a clean slate and deserves to not be burdened with underperforming glass. .


What do you mean by "observations"? No 40 MP X-trans camera has been released yet, let alone tested by reviewers.



Sep 06, 2022 at 02:00 PM
goodbokeh
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p.2 #3 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


"My observations" are based upon my knowledge of using the GFX and X systems as as well as Sony and Leica. In addition, multiple comments made by Fuji themselves about improved resolution needed to fully utilize the upcoming 40MP sensor as they have brought out new XF lens models: 18/1.4, 23/1.4 II, 33/1.4 and soon the 56/1.2 II.


Sep 06, 2022 at 02:42 PM
mdude85
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p.2 #4 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


goodbokeh wrote:
"My observations" are based upon my knowledge of using the GFX and X systems as as well as Sony and Leica. In addition, multiple comments made by Fuji themselves about improved resolution needed to fully utilize the upcoming 40MP sensor as they have brought out new XF lens models: 18/1.4, 23/1.4 II, 33/1.4 and soon the 56/1.2 II.


Certainly nothing wrong with speculation, but let's see what the lenses can deliver. The new mark lenses were bound to be released at some point; certainly they are being marketed as optimized for a higher resolution body in order to sell more new lenses and new bodies.




Sep 06, 2022 at 05:15 PM
mjm6
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p.2 #5 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


The biggest concern I have with newer lenses that are better optimized is that they are BIGGER and HEAVIER. They have more elements in them and are more exotic in design and materials (by necessity) and therefore they are certain to be more expensive.

Maybe, if Fujifilm stops putting IBIS in lenses that are shorter than some moderate telephoto focal length, they can pull back on the complexity and cost of some of the lenses. Since the bodies are all going to have OIS in them going forward (I would expect), I think that is a fair tradeoff for shorter focal length lenses to hold the line on size/weight. Otherwise, one of the advantages of the APS size starts to be eliminated. I know that people will argue that 35mm FF is really no bigger, but APS is certainly a little smaller and/or lighter all thngs considered. It is specifically what I want from an X kit.

We all don't need super high resolution gear. I know that I'd prefer higher resolution over lower in almost every use case that I can think if, but it isn't a necessity for my shooting. My first 20+MP camera was a Sony a900 back in 2009, and it was a great camera at 24MP and it produced fine images that I feel easily held up at 16x24 for full frame prints. I never tried going larger than that, but could probably get a little more out of them if I wanted/needed.

I see 40MP with APS as oversampling through the lens. If the lens is able to deliver reasonably well into the corners (and I will look into this before I make decisions), I don't think I'm going to be terribly disappointed by the results I could get.



Sep 06, 2022 at 07:20 PM
mjm6
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p.2 #6 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


gdanmitchell wrote

For many of us it would be sufficient to allow the rear-facing screen to simply tilt up and down.

Dan


Yes, certainly. I'm fine with tilt up/down and the second axis tilt some cameras have might be nice but is mostly unnecessary for my shooting as well.

A flippy screen reduces function and for my needs complicates things unnecessarily with absolutely no benefit to me that I have experienced since I have been shooting digital. I get that video shooters aren't ever likely to turn the camera on it's side for vertical shooting, but a good 30% of my images are made vertically, so it's painful to even consider not having the camera funciton somewhat natively in that orientation without a bunch of faffing about (no I'm not British, but in this case, faffing is the perfect way to describe the process of using a camera with a flippy screen on a tripod in vertical mode).



Sep 06, 2022 at 07:28 PM
goodbokeh
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p.2 #7 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


mjm6 wrote:
The biggest concern I have with newer lenses that are better optimized is that they are BIGGER and HEAVIER. They have more elements in them and are more exotic in design and materials (by necessity) and therefore they are certain to be more expensive.

Maybe, if Fujifilm stops putting IBIS in lenses that are shorter than some moderate telephoto focal length, they can pull back on the complexity and cost of some of the lenses. Since the bodies are all going to have OIS in them going forward (I would expect), I think that is a fair tradeoff for shorter focal
...Show more

mm6, I can recommend https://www.lenstip.com/ for your lens reviews.

It's your money of course but honesty the lenses you are considering for the X-H2 are under matched for the 40MP sensor. Now, the X-H2S with the 26MP stacked sensor I could get behind recommending 100% for the advantages of silent shutter, the best AF and other advantages of a stacked sensor.

Well, this thread has given you due diligence and the rest is up to you.

Edited on Sep 07, 2022 at 06:05 PM · View previous versions



Sep 07, 2022 at 02:11 PM
genjy
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p.2 #8 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


I think 40MP is nothing special. More MP is nice to have but isn't really that enticing. On the other hand, the stacked sensor in the X-H2S is actually special. Only a half dozen camera models on the market have something like that. If I am going to upgrade from my X-T4, I am getting a X-H2S for sure, unless Fuji puts that sensor in other bodies.

goodbokeh wrote:
mm6, I can recommend https://www.lenstip.com/ for your lens reviews.

It's your money of course but honesty the lenses you are considering for the X-H2 are under matched for the 40MP sensor. Now, the X-H2S with the 26MP stacked sensor I could get behind recommending 100% for the advantages of silent shutter, the best AF and other advantages of a stacked sensor.

Well, this thread have given you due diligence and the rest is up to you.




Sep 07, 2022 at 03:24 PM
AmbientMike
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p.2 #9 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


I haven't shot fuji, but I believe they have a 16-80. At 24-120 ff equivalent that's pretty good. I agree with 18 being too long but I've used 18-135 Canon pretty happily in the past.

I currently use 18-55 & 55-250 on canon aps a ton



Sep 07, 2022 at 04:06 PM
mdude85
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p.2 #10 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


40 MP is kind of a gimmick for the vast majority of users who are not sending high resolution crops to professional clients (even those who do, clients often ask for the highest resolution possible even though they don't really use that resolution either).

Most people shoot for social media (usually downsampled to under 2 MP) or for occasional printing. When you consider the optimal viewing distance of a large print, and the limits of modern printers, 40 MP is typically overkill. If you are printing smaller photos or albums, the distinction becomes even more imperceptible.


The higher resolution can, however, be useful for getting some extra reach out of your images (if you take a 40 MP photo and crop the center down to 26 MP, the effective focal length will appear longer) or for offering a bit more latitude during post-processing depending on how you crop.

Really the only reason we're seeing a 40 MP sensor in the XH2 and the XT5 is to attempt to draw some buyers away from the A7R and the Canon R5.



Sep 07, 2022 at 04:10 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #11 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


mdude85 wrote:
Really the only reason we're seeing a 40 MP sensor in the XH2 and the XT5 is to attempt to draw some buyers away from the A7R and the Canon R5.


Sort of, but I'd add:

Technological and manufacturing advances now allow 40MP sensors to be produced at the same price points as the older, lower-res sensors. They also tend to have equivalent IQ performance (e.g. dynamic range, noise, etc.) to the older lenses.

There are more potential pluses to the higher MP sensors for most users, including the potential for small size "noise grain" at high ISOs and in low light, along with the potential for some improvement in the rendering of gradients.

Since there's no real downside to the higher MP cameras for those who don't need it and there can be some advantages for some who may purchase these cameras, it really makes sense to keep moving the ball forward.

Dan



Sep 07, 2022 at 06:14 PM
Sauseschritt
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p.2 #12 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


For single lens I'd definitely pick the XF 16-80mm f4 OIS.

I once had one to test for a day and I absolutely loved it. Especially also its soft bokeh and strong colors. Its one of those zooms where its really hard to tell that its not a prime.

It had no sharpness issue either except for 80mm in the corners, where even stopping down didnt turn it really sharp in the corners (16mm was sharp enough even wide open, at least for me; I had focused on the edges in all tests). So it was really more of a 16-70mm or some such.

I love the flipscreen of the attached X-T4 because it can be turned around and then its ideally protected.


Other than that I'm not too sure for what the X system would even be used for next to a film Hasselblad. It seems to me the secondary system is only there to cover whatever the primary cant handle ?

The XF 10-24mm f4 and XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 OIS are both commonly considered good for their price point, if one would like to add them as well.


mdude85 wrote:
new 18-120 f4 PZ

Thats the powerzoom, obviously meant for video ?


gdanmitchell wrote:
Technological and manufacturing advances now allow 40MP sensors to be produced at the same price points as the older, lower-res sensors.

Thats nothing special.

The pixels will still be GIGANTIC compared to all other structures on the sensor.

Price point was never the question. Backlit is an example for a technology that actually raises price point. Smaller structures / higher resolution of the actual circuits, too. Smaller pixel, not ever.



Sep 07, 2022 at 06:29 PM
agvogel
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p.2 #13 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


Back when I shot Fuji, I was very happy with this kit:

10-24
35mm f2
55-200

(Side note: you mentioned Andy Mumford; this was very similar to the kit he used for quite a while, just swap the 35/2 for the 35/1.4)

If you want to go really light, swap the 10-24 for a 16mm f2.8. Before I sold everything, I was just using the 16/2.8 and the 55-200.

If you want WR on everything, swap the 55-200 for the 70-300, but you'll be missing a pretty big chunk in the normal-tele transitional range.



Sep 07, 2022 at 06:36 PM
mdude85
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p.2 #14 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


@ Sauseschritt

Yeah the 18-120 is optimized for video, but allegedly makes a very capable still lens as well, with a focal range suitable for travel work.



Sep 07, 2022 at 07:57 PM
liggy
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p.2 #15 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


With good glass I am coming to appreciate the luxury of croppability made possible by high res cameras. Improvements in noise reduction sw further enhance the utility.


Sep 07, 2022 at 08:34 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #16 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


Sauseschritt wrote:
For single lens I'd definitely pick the XF 16-80mm f4 OIS.

I once had one to test for a day and I absolutely loved it. Especially also its soft bokeh and strong colors. Its one of those zooms where its really hard to tell that its not a prime.

It had no sharpness issue either except for 80mm in the corners, where even stopping down didnt turn it really sharp in the corners (16mm was sharp enough even wide open, at least for me; I had focused on the edges in all tests). So it was really more of a 16-70mm or
...Show more

If you don't think higher resolution potential with at least equal image quality at the same price point is"nothign special," I am baffled.

I have no idea what you mean by "The pixels will still be GIGANTIC compared to all other structures on the sensor," why this is a concern, and much less what the real world significance of this may be.

Backlit has some value for some photographers, but higher resolution has some value, too. You can't get both just yet — but be patient. For now, if you value backlight over more MP, then you have that choice.

But you do you.

Dan



Sep 07, 2022 at 10:08 PM
flash
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p.2 #17 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


16-80 and 70-300.

The 16-80 is great up to about 70mm and soft in the corners at 80mm. But the overlap with the 70-300 fixes that. Third lens add a 23mm 1.4.

Gordon



Sep 08, 2022 at 06:16 AM
mdude85
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p.2 #18 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


gdanmitchell wrote:
Technological and manufacturing advances now allow 40MP sensors to be produced at the same price points as the older, lower-res sensors. They also tend to have equivalent IQ performance (e.g. dynamic range, noise, etc.) to the older lenses.

Dan


Those sensors are still only typically introduced in flagship bodies, and thus, the consumer is almost always going to pay more for a higher resolution body that they arguably do not need. And it's a cost that consumers will justify, as higher resolution is associated with a better product (and the company knows this, and that is why it often upcharges for higher resolution sensors, even if it can purchase those sensors at almost the same price as a lower-res sensor).

Then, the company is able to up-sell new lenses to use with a new sensor (case in point: when Fuji today released the 40 MP XH2, it also listed its most expensive, weather sealed, fastest XF lenses as those that will allegedly "get the maximum benefit" from the 40.2 MP sensor... how interesting that XC, mid-range XF lenses and kit lenses were absent).

(And let's not forget the down stream.... maybe a user is enticed to buy a new computer or high-end tablet to process much higher resolution video and stills, as well as more hard disk and cloud storage plans to store and back up that data).

So, I wouldn't really say there are "no" downsides.



Sep 08, 2022 at 04:22 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #19 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


A few problems with your logic here.

First, if "those sensors are still typically introduced in flagship bodies," then photographers who feel they needed flagship features all along are likely trading up from a previous flagship body... whose cost was likely similar if not a bit lower in inflation-adjusted terms.

On the other hand, these sensors quickly make it way down in the Fujfilm line-up since Fujifilm tends to use the same sensor across a generation of models at virtually all price points. For example, the XE4, X100v, XPro3, XT4 (and probably some I've left out) all use the same 26MP sensor from the previous generation. Photographers who were fine with those other models previously will simply wait until their model gets the new sensor... unless they think it makes more sense to keep using the previous 26MP sensor camera.

Finally, at the fundamental level your argument is simply one against advancing technology. The same exact argument was used when Fujifilm went from 16MP to 24MP... and when just about any camera company updated just about any camera with a higher resolution sensor. I've been doing this long enough to recall hearing exactly the same arguments as cameras went from 1 MP to 2MP, from 2MP to 3MP, from 3MP to 4MP, from 4MP to 6MP, from 6MP to 8MP, from 8MP to 10MP or 12MP, and on and on.

No camera company can possibly decide to simply sit on the current technology and ignore advances... and expect to stay in business.

In the end, I'm certain that a 40MP APS-C camera from Fujifilm will cost just about as much (especially when adjusted for inflation) as a 26MP camera of the same type, and in fact this will hold for the previous 24MP and 16MP cameras as well.

Because you, personally, think that your computer won't handle files from 40MP cameras... that is a fine reason for you to choose to not update to a 40MP camera if that is a deal-breaker for you. But from the broader market perspective, people upgrade computers, people get more advanced cameras... and manufacturers must produce them or die.

Dan

mdude85 wrote:
Those sensors are still only typically introduced in flagship bodies, and thus, the consumer is almost always going to pay more for a higher resolution body that they arguably do not need. And it's a cost that consumers will justify, as higher resolution is associated with a better product (and the company knows this, and that is why it often upcharges for higher resolution sensors, even if it can purchase those sensors at almost the same price as a lower-res sensor).

Then, the company is able to up-sell new lenses to use with a new sensor (case in point: when
...Show more




Sep 08, 2022 at 06:30 PM
mdude85
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p.2 #20 · Best 1-lens, 2-lens, 3-les kits for a lightweight travel / adventure kit?


@gdanmitchell

Actually a lot of what you say is in agreement with my perspective.

Even though a 40 MP body might cost as much as a 26 MP camera of the same type, those older cameras can't be "traded in" so to speak. The company is always going to be looking for ways to entice consumers to upgrade their bodies and the 40 MP sensor is an example of that. So the financial outlay is a downside if the user doesn't need the extra MP.

By the way, I know you don't mean to condescend (at least I hope not), but I've also been doing this for a while, almost 20 years actually. I don't recall the megapixel race quite the same way you do. From my memory, much of the megapixel race was trying to compete with the elusive "resolution" of film. Maybe you recall that as well. Megapixel counts basically doubled every few years, and those increases were craved by users, until they weren't. I'm not saying there are a lot of downsides to a 40 MP sensor over a 26 MP sensor. But there are a few.








Sep 08, 2022 at 07:33 PM
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