Robert Mustell wrote:
The D850 is the greatest DSLR ever made.
For less than $2k you can get a used model in really good condition off the B&S here.
I'm leaning towards the D850, but I must admit, the thought of dropping $2k on a camera with no warranty is not making me feel safe. I know that KEH and MPB offer a 6 month warranty (and KEH offers a longer aftermarket warranty) but if I'm only shooting a hundred or so shots a month, will the warranty really be long enough?
Buying new is close to $3k, but I would get it factory new and have a year to play with it.
I have owned both and hands down the 850 is the better choice. I would not hesitate to buy used and right now you can get a refurb straight from Nikon. As good as the 850 is if I were starting out it would be mirrorless and probably would grab the Z7ii.
Had the D850, still have a D800, the less refined - eg more silent shutter and better mirror dampening - predecessor to the D810 although aqccording to some - respected) - reviewers, eg https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d810/8 the AF of the D810 in low light conditions is inferior in low light conditions Despite being formally rated to -2EV (only one stop less than the Nikon D750), in real-world use, we were surprised to find the D810 failing more often than it should in low light. As part of the Sony a7R II review we compared the performance of the Nikon D750, Canon EOS 5DS and the Sony in extreme low light. The D810 simply couldn't keep up in this company. It even falls well behind its predecessor, the D800/E, which we found to focus down to -3 to -4 EV in our lab (it was under-rated).
which was a major reason for me not to swap my D800 for it
The D850 is by far a superior camera to the D800/810, not so much because of the extra megapixels, but in particular because of the superior AF in low light and better IQ and high ISO performance
That said, I sold my D850 two years ago afer using it for a year, less and less, alongside my 2018 Z6's
Despite shooting a fair bit of catwalk, dance and event, the Z6's were despite the lower megapixel count and inferior (although by far not as bad as many wannbee reviewers claim) AF more the up for the jobin over 95% of the time
Making the D850 as far as I was concerned an expensive redundant investment
Got a cheapo 2nd hand D4S for the rare less then 5% of the shoots I might need a better then the Z6 AF, although so ar never have used it for that
Didn't 'switch' to mirrorless though
While it admittedly is my 1st pick when I grab a camera, still have a D800and D4S for the situations my Z6 (sold one) and Z7II can't handle (fast erratic moving subjects in low light low contrast, or heavy backlighting conditions)
And still have F mount lenses only
So basically I controled my GAS, instead looked at what I really needed for what I shot, and chose my camera's accordingly, even if it meant settling with an 'inferior' one
And with the money saved I got a few lenses I had been looking out for instead for some time
Not sure I would recommend the 7ii for low, fast moving subjects like young grandkids. It’s the one weak area of the body, and OPs primary use case. I always enjoyed shooting my son from the hip with my Sony for those family documentary style photos by just using wide and EyeAF, something the 7ii flat refuses to do.
SSISteve wrote:
I have owned both and hands down the 850 is the better choice. I would not hesitate to buy used and right now you can get a refurb straight from Nikon. As good as the 850 is if I were starting out it would be mirrorless and probably would grab the Z7ii.
No question the 850 is a better camera then the 810. I have owned and enjoyed both of these cameras. For the OP's intended
use, the D810 will work very well. The D850 will be worth 1000 to 1200 within a year and the D810 will probably remain between 6 and 800 bucks. For the same money, he will be able to add a nice fast 2.8 zoom which will enhance is photography
more than the advanced features of the D850 for SURE
After deep consideration, a few minutes ago I ordered a D810 from KEH. While the D850 is the superior camera, I'm not sure I would use all the new features. I'm somewhat used to my D7100, and the D810 is closer to it in terms of controls, size, etc. And the fact that I'm not a professional photographer (and haven't been in 20 years) weighed into the decision too.
My only complaint about KEH is that a shutter count wasn't available. I did buy the 2 year warranty, though.
Thank you again everybody! The advice everybody gave me is fantastic, and I appreciate you all!
The D850 of course is Nikons 100 year camera. Its probably the best DSLR ever build, or at least spot 2 or 3. It has ISO 64, backlit and dual gain, so it has the best of sensor tech. It also has no phase pixels yet either.
But the D810 was also an excellent camera. Its one of Nikons quietest shutters, and theres nothing wrong with the camera otherwise either. It also already has ISO 64.
Personally I would pick the D850 because shutter sounds is no priority of mine, but the builtin rangefinder is very tightly in tolerances, allowing to precisely focus manual lenses, which earlier generations such as my D750 for example only does so-so. The same was said about the D500 and D5.
It also helps that the D850 apparently has Nikons best optical viewfinder, ever.
jim allison wrote:
The D850 will be worth 1000 to 1200 within a year
The D850 has been 1800+ on the used market since many years, with no sign of the price ever getting lower.
If the D850 is at 1200 next year I'll get three.
trenchmonkey wrote: 9 fps
Only with Battery Grip + D5 batteries, unfortunately.
Without its only 7fps.
(Wikipedia claims the battery grip alone is sufficient, but AFAICS thats wrong)
I agree that the Z7ii is not the best for fast moving action. Compared to what Canon and Sony is offering in their mirrorless the 850 can't hold a candle to them as well for fast moving action.
RoamingScott wrote:
Not sure I would recommend the 7ii for low, fast moving subjects like young grandkids. It’s the one weak area of the body, and OPs primary use case. I always enjoyed shooting my son from the hip with my Sony for those family documentary style photos by just using wide and EyeAF, something the 7ii flat refuses to do.
Overall the only significant gain is with the autofocus that was completely redesigned for the D850 and uses a dedicated processor chip. The D810 uses the autofocus system that was introduced in 2007 with the D3 and designed for sports shooters.
When I had the D810 I used it primarily for landscape photography as it had the new feature of a split screen and I could look at near focus with one side and far or mid ground focus with the other half of the screen - great for use with a tilt-shift lens.
I remember trying to use the D810 with the 80-400mm lens to photograph a great blue heron and the camera would not focus or even hunt. I put the lens on the D750 and with the same lighting and same subject there was not problem focusing on the bird and getting the shots.
For sports or event or wildlife photography you should choose the D850. For landscape photography either camera will work well. One other advantage of the D850 is that it can use CFexpress cards which means your investment in memory cards can be carried over to the next camera.
The value is on the D810 side, which has plenty of resolution for most shooters. Both the D800 and the D810 suffer from the tendency of premature fracture of the metal piece that holds the motherboard and the sensor, and as a result, you can't get tack sharp images even if you use tripod. Basically, Nikon had cut corners, and the inferior metal used leads to the nasty issue. Perhaps you can still google it today. I had to fight them to get my defective D810 replaced, and initially they insisted the camera be dropped by me. Of course, they couldn't prove that. Don't know which the serial number range suffers more, but the problem was fixed in the D850.
To follow up: the used D810 arrived from KEH today. The body is nearly in mint condition, the shutter has 41k cycles. I had a couple of surprises to work through.
First: the image in the viewfinder was very blurry. Images were sharp, but looking through the viewfinder was like going out in fog. With a sigh I was envisioning calling KEH to return the camera, when I remembered the built-in diopter corrector. Yep, it was dialed all the way to "+". Once I moved it back to middle, the viewfinder was sharp again.
Second: the built-in flash. There are a few more flash modes than the D7100, and for a few shots I was puzzled by how much the flash was delaying the shutter release. I would fire the shutter, but there would be a 1~2 second delay. Once I figured out the "Slow" option, everything was back to normal.
After those glitches, I spent the evening going through the menu and taking way too many test photos of my cat (until he lost patience and left the room.) I'm very impressed with the camera so far.
It's larger than the D7100; large enough that it doesn't need a battery grip. But that restricts me to the EN-EL15 battery and I can't find new ones. The batteries for my D7100 are 7~8 years old, and I don't know how old the battery that came with the camera is (all 3 batteries show a battery age of "0".)
Focus speed is much better than the D7100, and the cat photos I shot using my 18-200 DX lens are wonderfully sharp. The photos I took using my 85mm f1.8 DX lens blew me away! Maybe it was childish, but I enjoyed pulling up a RAW image in Photoshop Elements and just zooming in and in and in...
The camera was $900 and the extended warranty under $200 while the D850 would have been $3k. I've saved $2k so maybe it's time to go glass shopping!
Don't worry about batteries, there are a ton of third party options out there. I've used Wasabi and Watson without any issues in a D810. If you insist on OEM the latest Nikon EN-EL15C also works with a D810.
As an addendum to my previous post, I went ahead and bit the "D850 Bullet". The local dealer took a couple of my older (D610 and D750) DSLR's and some cash for the D850. The D850 has a very low shutter count (just over 4K), and is perfect as to surface condition. The battery is fresh, I already had several SD cards (128gb), so I can be running immediately. I ordered a 128gb XQD card last night, along with the "Mastering The D850". I did need to upgrade the firmware, but it's ready in all respects.
I did take a close look at the D5 that he had, but I just don't have the need for the features of the pro camera, and I'll likely have to work hard to use all the features of the D850.
I don't look at having a Z or D as "one or the other". My sense tells me that these are "different horses for different courses", and that they'll compliment each other.
supatyke wrote:
Don't worry about batteries, there are a ton of third party options out there. I've used Wasabi and Watson without any issues in a D810. If you insist on OEM the latest Nikon EN-EL15C also works with a D810.
I've had bad experiences with third-party batteries, so I prefer OEM. Luckily, Adorama has some of the EN-EL15C new in stock. I ordered two of them, should arrive Monday. For this weekend, I'll charge up all the batteries I have on hand and see how long it will shoot.
Also for the weekend, the GF and I are going out to a local botanical park. She wants me to teach her some skills for better grabshot photography, so it seems like a great time to break in the "new" D810.
I'm returning to photography after a few years away. I worked my way through college as a newspaper photographer in the early 1980s, and had a part-time studio in the 80s~early 2000s. In that time I've gone from Nikon F2AS to FM2s, to D90 digital and finally I'm parked at a D7100 body (feel weird having only 1 camera body.) I still have 4 Nikkor AF lenses: 35mm and 18-200 DX, plus 50mm and 85mm FX.
I'm considering buying a new body to become my primary body, and I'm trying to decide between the D810 and the D850. The D810 would be used of course, but would be better budget-wise. The D850 would be new, under warranty, and would have some new bells and whistles. I'll admit I'm interested in the D850's special mode for scanning slides and negatives (I have tens of thousands filed away) but is it worth the $2k or so extra? (Would a dedicated neg/slide scanner be better?)
And hanging over this decision is the industry move to mirrorless. The closest camera shop to me only has mirrorless bodies in stock and they shamelessly push the DSLR buyers towards mirrorless.
As far as what I shoot? In the college days it was everything from news to high school sports to pet of the week. In the studio, it was mostly boudoir. These days I suspect it will be mostly grandchildren (ages 9, 5 and 2.) We're not talking high volume of shots either, maybe 1500-2000 a year.
I'm looking for advice, and I appreciate any thoughts you might have. Thank you!...Show more →
Seems like everyone pushes DSLR users to mirrorless. Drives me nuts!
Havent used these but Unless your d7100 is giving you some sort of trouble the numbers on the sensor look pretty good. And 24mp still current.
One recent D750 vs D810 thread IIRC the D810 had a lot more support. Surprised me. 36mp still enough imo. D850 probably has better af
Seems like everyone pushes DSLR users to mirrorless. Drives me nuts!
Havent used these but Unless your d7100 is giving you some sort of trouble the numbers on the sensor look pretty good. And 24mp still current.
One recent D750 vs D810 thread IIRC the D810 had a lot more support. Surprised me. 36mp still enough imo. D850 probably has better af
It's going to be a while before DSLR's "go away". I'm just wading in, but I'm in no hurry to abandon "prism viewing" any time soon.
You may have seen my last post where I mentioned that there were "horses for courses". DSLR's and mirrorless are no different. I have both, and I can easily see where both technologies have respective strengths and weaknesses.
It's also one reason why film continues to have followers. The equipment is perfectly usable in most instances, and as long as film is produced, and can be developed and scanned, there's no reason not to enjoy the art.
pendennis wrote:
It's going to be a while before DSLR's "go away". I'm just wading in, but I'm in no hurry to abandon "prism viewing" any time soon.
You may have seen my last post where I mentioned that there were "horses for courses". DSLR's and mirrorless are no different. I have both, and I can easily see where both technologies have respective strengths and weaknesses.
It's also one reason why film continues to have followers. The equipment is perfectly usable in most instances, and as long as film is produced, and can be developed and scanned, there's no reason not to enjoy the art....Show more →
The other thing is, even though I haven't used film in years, I'd still rather have it around. So it's annoying to see people who are interested in DSLR's dying.
I bought a miirorless m4/3 eons ago. Liked it and used it a lot. Doesn't mean I want nothing but mirrorless. Or to be forced to use it.
The 850 is objectively better camera in pretty much every aspect compared to 810 but there is something about that 36mp sensor that I just LOVE. Some of my best photographs came from 810 and the look and feel of those is incredible.
Also, I feel the 36mp size is perfect and does not feel like overkill the way 850 feels but then again the 47mp sensor opens up avenues like nothing else aided by AF that is leagues ahead of 810's.
This is a hard decision.
