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Archive 2022 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?

  
 
doc4x5
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p.2 #1 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


I solve the problem by using one of the memory settings, 1 in my case as my "tripod setting," no IBIS, AF-S, single shot, (unless I'm doing a bracket), and a few others that don't matter. I use the other 2 as "hand held." That means IBIS, AF-C, etc. It eliminates the need to remember to turn it off; I'm terrible at such memory things.

Since the overwhelming majority of my work is done on a tripod, it solves my problem. YMMV.



May 26, 2022 at 04:19 PM
1bwana1
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p.2 #2 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


I think the lens makes a difference as well as the body. On my Tamron lenses that have stabilization if I don't turn it off when on a tripod my images are noticeably softer. With my Sony lenses it varies in this regard.


May 26, 2022 at 04:42 PM
tschopp
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p.2 #3 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


For my 24-105 and 70-350 I keep lens stabilization on while on a tripod. The 70-350 is long enough for wind to be an issue that I could see a benefit. I used to have a Sigma 100-400, it would wonder if left on, so that one I turned the ISS off. For all lenses with no stabilization I keep the IBIS on, and haven't seen any issues even when looking for it. I don't think even during astro I have seen any issues.


May 26, 2022 at 06:47 PM
secondclaw
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p.2 #4 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


I shoot a lot of landscapes on tripod, and have never bothered to turn off the IBIS on A7R, A7R3, and A1, in any situation, including numerous Astro shoots, and I have never had a problem (and I do pixel peep at times...).


May 26, 2022 at 10:59 PM
Choderboy
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p.2 #5 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


Absolutely. Even on the sturdiest of tripods, a telephoto lens's hood will catch a light breeze and cause movement. Then there is not only shutter shock, but lens elements moving and stopping due to AF, iris operating cause movement. A tripod is a crude way of providing stability. Two beanbags and a boulder is much better, but still not perfect.
"When on tripod" is such an inadequate term.

DaveFP wrote:
Important to remember that, in many cases, tripod use does not guarantee the absolute steadiness that would warrant turning IBIS off.

Wind, water in a stream, passing trains and trucks, etc can induce movement that may not be seen.

Of course that risk is reduced with a weighted pro tripod but many of us use "travel tripods" for their reduced weight and bulk.

In any cases, as I said above, if you have the awareness you can try with and without.

My tripod kit has an orange rubber wristband that I wear when I have turned IBIS off so that I remember to turn
...Show more



May 27, 2022 at 02:06 AM
Daran
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p.2 #6 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


ruthenium wrote:
In the last 12 months, I have tested several of my lenses, with the camera (A1) on a tripod and using a remote shutter, each time collecting 10 images with IBIS and 10 images with IBIS disabled. When selecting the best/sharpest of the resulting 20 images, I don't remember a case when disabling IBIS definitively resulted in better/best image quality. In fact, the differences were usually negligible to the point when selecting the sharpest image was about splitting hairs. I don't mean to make any claims, just stating my experience.

I would not expect any difference for short exposures. For long exposures the gyro may ever so slowly drift and reduce the sharpness. That has been demonstrated for older Sony E-mount cameras, but I haven't seen anything for the latest models.

In theory at some point a perfect IS would try to compensate earth rotation, which yields a full degree every 240s. So for long exposures the question really is whether the IS is smart enough to disable itself when detecting the constant slow drift of being on a tripod.




May 27, 2022 at 05:18 AM
GHarris
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p.2 #7 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


Daran wrote:
In theory at some point a perfect IS would try to compensate earth rotation, which yields a full degree every 240s. So for long exposures the question really is whether the IS is smart enough to disable itself when detecting the constant slow drift of being on a tripod.



Can't do that without knowing where you're pointing. The way the sky moves depends on your orientation and location.

The only exception to this is if you attach your camera to an "Equatorial mount" (what people in photography communities commonly call a "tracker" in its various forms), which is physically aligned to the axis of the Earth's rotation and keeps up with it - which thereby negates the need for IS.

You can't feel the Earth rotating under you, that's fundamental physics, because you're on the Earth and moving just the same way and appear (to yourself) be at rest, experiencing no acceleration, and therefore no amount of IS precision will ever detect it.

A camera with a built-in "plate solver" - a process of taking a photo, and then recognising the stars in the frame, and thereby determining location and orientation - could be the start of an IS-based tracking system, albeit a slow one - it would need to take multiple photos, either of the same location set apart by a time interval (to not just determine "what bit of sky is this?", but also, "where am I observing it from and, therefore, how is it moving?"), or of two different areas of the sky at almost the same time. It would, like the use of an equatorial mount, be an optical-observation-based correction of the image, not a movement/force-detection based method. But it would be very limited in range of movement / permissible exposure time, and the camera would have to be turned and reframed/reset often. And would do what computerised tracking mounts, or the simplest equatorial mounts, essentially already do for you. IS is there for the correction of small, variable movement in varying directions, not constant, ongoing movement in a steady direction.

Whatever it is that causes IS to produce blurring on a tripod, it is not the ongoing, shared, undetectable movement of the Earth.

At least, that's how I understand it. Perhaps I am mistaken. My explanation does not account for the ways that weather appears to be gently affected by the Earth's rotation, for example. I would be happy to be corrected. I fear I have probably misunderstood what point you were trying to make / what you were trying to say. Sorry if I'm derailing the thread.



May 27, 2022 at 07:35 AM
Daran
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p.2 #8 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


GHarris wrote:
You can't feel the Earth rotating under you, that's fundamental physics, because you're on the Earth and moving just the same way and appear (to yourself) be at rest, experiencing no acceleration, and therefore no amount of IS precision will ever detect it.

That is not correct. While you can't detect constant motion, you can easily detect acceleration and rotation. E.g. only in a non-rotating state do you get no centripetal forces.

On earth you are moving on a circle around the earths rotation axis which has an inherent acceleration towards the center of that circle. Additionally the direction of local gravity toward the center of the earths mass changes in direction. There is many simple physics experiments proving this. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum.

Whatever it is that causes IS to produce blurring on a tripod, it is not the ongoing, shared, undetectable movement of the Earth.
While the native drift of IBIS is usually worse, for the precision you'd need for long exposure IS the earth rotation is indeed an issue. See https://thecentercolumn.com/2020/01/17/earths-rotation-limits-ibis-performance-to-6-3-stops/. That has nothing to do with astronomical imaging, where the astronomical mount would compensate the rotation of the earth and ideally the telescope stops rotating in absolute terms (so an ideal IS would not move a telescope on an ideal mount).

Edited on May 27, 2022 at 08:06 AM · View previous versions



May 27, 2022 at 08:02 AM
GHarris
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p.2 #9 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


Thank you! I am reading these links with interest and I am sorry for derailing the thread with a flawed understanding and false information.


May 27, 2022 at 08:03 AM
Tarekith
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p.2 #10 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


doc4x5 wrote:
I solve the problem by using one of the memory settings, 1 in my case as my "tripod setting," no IBIS, AF-S, single shot, (unless I'm doing a bracket), and a few others that don't matter. I use the other 2 as "hand held." That means IBIS, AF-C, etc. It eliminates the need to remember to turn it off; I'm terrible at such memory things.

Since the overwhelming majority of my work is done on a tripod, it solves my problem. YMMV.


That’s how I was thinking of approaching it too, good idea.



May 27, 2022 at 09:06 AM
tschopp
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p.2 #11 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


Daran wrote:
In theory at some point a perfect IS would try to compensate earth rotation, which yields a full degree every 240s. So for long exposures the question really is whether the IS is smart enough to disable itself when detecting the constant slow drift of being on a tripod.



Or if it was really smart it would know you are shooting astro and eliminate the need for a star tracker. Of course if we expected that kind of smarts they would get rid of star eater first.



May 27, 2022 at 02:53 PM
Daran
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p.2 #12 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


tschopp wrote:
Or if it was really smart it would know you are shooting astro and eliminate the need for a star tracker.

Sounds cool, but it would be limited to rather short exposures and angles. I'd still take it.

Of course if we expected that kind of smarts they would get rid of star eater first.
They should. But I very much doubt they would. Seems like a pride thing by now. Someone at Sony is sitting on the current star-eater, giving everyone the evil eye who as much as glances at it. Maybe we'll just have to wait till that guy gets out of the way. Hope he is older than I am...




May 28, 2022 at 05:59 AM
Petegh
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p.2 #13 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


I posed this question to Dave Etchells at Imaging Resource a couple of years ago; his response was:

'I think modern IS systems can detect when they're on a tripod and disable themselves.

AFAIK, the reason for this guidance in the past is that the system would move the IS elements in response to electrical noise in the system. The camera or lens would see the electronic noise as a signal, think that the system was moving, and would command the IS element to move to "correct" it - which of course would just result in the camera creating blur instead of removing it.

A big part of getting to the extreme levels of IS we have today has been driving the "noise floor" of the system low enough to be able to detect even very small/slow amounts of motion over time. I think that modern systems with 5.5 - 7.5 stops of improvement would probably work just fine to damp out tripod vibrations.'



May 28, 2022 at 07:19 AM
Berkrathes
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p.2 #14 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


I did a test a few years ago with the A7R II Sigma 150-600mm and MC-11, on a sturdy tripod in my living room. With pretty long exposure time I think around 15-30 seconds. With ibis/ois on the result was blurry as hell, with ibis/ois off same settings otherwise tack sharp. But that is a pretty specific use case. I also often forgot to tur ibis off in everyday tripod shooting and got pretty good results with other lenses, with the bigma I tend to shut it off on tripod.


May 30, 2022 at 01:39 PM
Choderboy
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p.2 #15 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


There's another exception: Pentax.
K1 and K1 MKII have Astrotracer. Other Pentax bodies can do it with a clip on GPS device.
There are some weaknesses, limitations and pros.
It's easier to set up alignment.
It's no good wider than 24mm.
The sensor can only move so far, so exposure time is limited.
It takes up no room in your bag and weighs nothing (K1).



GHarris wrote:
Can't do that without knowing where you're pointing. The way the sky moves depends on your orientation and location.

The only exception to this is if you attach your camera to an "Equatorial mount" (what people in photography communities commonly call a "tracker" in its various forms), which is physically aligned to the axis of the Earth's rotation and keeps up with it - which thereby negates the need for IS.

You can't feel the Earth rotating under you, that's fundamental physics, because you're on the Earth and moving just the same way and appear (to yourself) be at rest, experiencing no
...Show more



May 30, 2022 at 04:22 PM
Mattstig
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p.2 #16 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


To be clear, when were talking about turning off ibis when using a tripod we’re NOT talking about when using a gimbal, right? Do folks keep ibis on when shooting wildlife with a gimbal?


Jan 20, 2023 at 07:02 PM
jeffbuzz
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p.2 #17 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


Mattstig wrote:
To be clear, when were talking about turning off ibis when using a tripod we’re NOT talking about when using a gimbal, right? Do folks keep ibis on when shooting wildlife with a gimbal?


I turn OIS off when using a gimbal. I leave OIS on when using a monopod. If your gimbal is unlocked in both axes and you are actively panning the camera you could probably leave OIS turned on without ill effect. As soon as your camera comes to rest in the gimbal the IBIS/OIS will start fighting against you. I have absolutely no real evidence to back this up beyond my gut feeling. I'm imagining hanging a MTF chart from a drone might be the only viable test method.

The 200-600 and 600mm lenses instructions both specifically say to turn OIS off while using a tripod. That tells me neither of those lenses can detect and compensate for a lack of movement. So unless the camera is actually moving in the gimbal, the OIS system will apparently keep looking for something to do.



Jan 20, 2023 at 08:13 PM
Mattstig
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p.2 #18 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


This makes sense- and as someone recently pointed out when panning/using both axis, in most scenarios, we’d be shooting at higher shutter speeds that would allow for turning off oss anyway. Thanks for taking the time to answer!

jeffbuzz wrote:
I turn OIS off when using a gimbal. I leave OIS on when using a monopod. If your gimbal is unlocked in both axes and you are actively panning the camera you could probably leave OIS turned on without ill effect. As soon as your camera comes to rest in the gimbal the IBIS/OIS will start fighting against you. I have absolutely no real evidence to back this up beyond my gut feeling. I'm imagining hanging a MTF chart from a drone might be the only viable test method.

The 200-600 and 600mm lenses instructions both specifically say to turn OIS
...Show more



Jan 21, 2023 at 12:46 AM
dclark
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p.2 #19 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


You need to study Daran's posts above.

IBIS gets it's stabilization signal from a gyro not an accelerometer. That means it will try to keep the camera pointing in a fixed direction in space. Standing on the surface of the Earth we are in a rotating reference frame. If mounted on a tripod, the camera's direction rotates 360 degrees per day, which is ~0.004 degrees per second. If you have a 600mm lens the FOV is ~4 degrees. That means it takes ~1000 sec to move the full FOV of the sensor. If the sensor has 5000 pixels width/height that means the rotation of the Earth is about 5 pixels/sec. If the IBIS keeps the camera stabilized it will smear the image a few pixels per second of exposure time. If the exposure time is short, it does not matter. If you are doing a long exposure it can cause noticeable smearing. Long exposures are done on a tripod. If you are doing long exposures (presumably on a tripod), especially if using a narrow FOV, turn off IBIS.

If you are on a tripod using a gimbal to photograph wildlife, you are probably using a short exposure time, so don't worry about it.

BTW, check my arithmetic, I make a lot of errors.



Jan 21, 2023 at 01:15 AM
Mattstig
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p.2 #20 · Why is it recommended to turn off IBIS on Sony cameras when using a tripod?


Understood. Even if your math is off the concept makes sense and you explained it well. Thanks!

dclark wrote:
You need to study Daran's posts above.

IBIS gets it's stabilization signal from a gyro not an accelerometer. That means it will try to keep the camera pointing in a fixed direction in space. Standing on the surface of the Earth we are in a rotating reference frame. If mounted on a tripod, the camera's direction rotates 360 degrees per day, which is ~0.004 degrees per second. If you have a 600mm lens the FOV is ~4 degrees. That means it takes ~1000 sec to move the full FOV of the sensor. If the sensor has 5000 pixels width/height that means
...Show more



Jan 21, 2023 at 07:43 AM
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