aCuria wrote:
By "edge to edge" I mean that the "whole frame" has to be considered, not just the center.
There are multiple layers of possible misconceptions in this kind of discussion, and its difficult to get people to understand whats really going on. You probably already know some of this explanation below:
The first and most common misconception is that people think that detail in the photo will increase linearly with pixels, and this is wrong because the "megapixel" tag is a deliberately misleading metric. For us to perceive 2x the detail in an image you would have to double the pixels on both axis (and double the sensor size on both axis too)... Meaning that going from a 15MP m4/3 sensor to a 60MP FF sensor is necessary to get 2x the detail, (assuming the lens quality is unchanged, which is another whole can of worms)
The second possible misconception is in just looking at the linear resolution differences, so 7008 (100lp/mm) px A7iv, and 9504px (130lp/mm) on the Riv, and expecting to get that 9504 / 7008 = 130% more detail. However, its necessary to use the same pixel pitch, and a larger sensor to truely get 130% more detail.
So then the question is what do we actually gain? This can be approximated with the transfer function:
image = image lp/mm, meaning what we get in the raw file, printed the same size as the sensor
sensor = sensor lp/mm, computed based on pixel pitch
lens = lens lp/mm, the resolution of the virtual image projected by the lens
x = experimentally determined (assume x=2)
So we have this relationship:
1/image^x = 1/sensor^x + 1/lens^x
So if we look at the 135GM f/2.8 MTF chart and plug in the MTF 50 at the 10mm mark (~70 lp/mm) (note that I am assuming lensrentals is measuring the resolution of the virtual image directly, which is what I think they are doing) we get the following values:
Note that if we were to use a lens that can do 79 lp/mm on the 7iv, vs a 70 lp/mm lens on the Riv, the A7iv will theoretically produce an image on par with the Riv shot!
Now, if we re-do the computations with a theoretical lens that does 160 lp/mm edge to edge:
As you can if the lens is better, we can get a more significant real resolution increase on the final raw file.
Note that using MTF50... just means we assume that 50% contrast is good enough for us. This means that a black hair will end up as middle grey rather than black, which may or may not be acceptable. Of course the calculation can be repeated reading off the graph at higher contrast levels
One thing you may notice from this exercise, is that the center of the image contains more information than the outside, due to the MTF curve being the strongest in the center. This also means that using apsc mode is less damaging than one might expect. Maybe the area under the mtf curve can be used somehow. ...Show more →
Well, now at least I see why you have the view you do and also how its different than Roger's: there no Bayer array in your account.
Stoffer wrote:
Very underwhelming if true. Feels like the A9 to A9 II upgrade or am I missing something? I’m not taking about resolution which is fine, more the feature set for the target group.
No, this is more substantial than the A9 II upgrade. It adds the processor upgrade (do not underestimate that impact - it eliminates the "waiting to clear buffer" impact, making the camera much more responsive if you shoot bursts); it adds the dual-mode slots letting you use faster cards or your existing ones; it gives you the better screen of the A7RIVa, but adds the gorgeous EVF of the A1; it brings in new AF functionality. The AF and video improvements sound significant, too.
We'll have to wait to see if this is real, or a concoction - it reads too much like someone's imagining Sony drawing together "the good bits" from every Sony announcement since the A7RIV...
The big question is how substantial the sensor improvements are. If Sony really has improved the sensor readout significantly, maybe this is Sony's answer to the Canon R5 - a faster camera that isn't stacked, so it can be rather cheaper.
Intriguingly, it explicitly denies one of the things SAR was touting: a much improved IBIS with 8+ stops.
Sony A7rIV has 693 phase detection points and AI assisted WB
So the V is getting closer to the A1 which has 759 points.
I sold my IV which I loved at the time a couple weeks after I started using my A1.
Do not see anything on the V that could entice me to buy one all they are doing yes the CF cards and buffer are a huge step forward as the phase detection and other but all they are doing is trying to catch up to the A1 and have not caught it yet so big deal. Always nice to see improvements but 50mp is plenty.
With all the things that the A1 does better the slight difference between 50 and 61mp is a yawner. When Sony comes out with a A1 with more MP and some other useful features like focus stacking or in camera pixel shift and more I will upgrade.
I could live with my A1 for the rest of my life it is a hell of a camera and we have excellent lenses.
Certainly enough to get the job done for the most discerning photographer.
trstahly wrote:
I sold my IV which I loved at the time a couple weeks after I started using my A1.
With all the things that the A1 does better the slight difference between 50 and 61mp is a yawner. When Sony comes out with a A1 with more MP and some other useful features like focus stacking or in camera pixel shift and more I will upgrade.
Interestingly enough though Sony has been discounting the A1 left and right. Either this A7RV is a really good value or Sony actually wants to get the A1 in people's hand. You decide
To be fair, there are likely a lot of factors outside the release of the A7RV that could affect discounting the A1. I think diving into them would likely turn political, so I'm going to leave it at that.
On the plus side, new camera bodies mean more discounts on older, used models for those of us who don't have deep enough pockets for an A1.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go tell my A7III it's still a perfectly good camera that takes lovely pictures.
Alan Parker wrote:
Interestingly enough though Sony has been discounting the A1 left and right. Either this A7RV is a really good value or Sony actually wants to get the A1 in people's hand. You decide
Are you really trying to put the A1 down because someone is discounting it from $6,498 after it has been out just short of two years?
BH Photo today - A1 $6,498 which is over double 2.2x what they sell the IVa for $2,998.
trstahly wrote:
So the V is getting closer to the A1 which has 759 points.
I sold my IV which I loved at the time a couple weeks after I started using my A1.
Do not see anything on the V that could entice me to buy one all they are doing yes the CF cards and buffer are a huge step forward as the phase detection and other but all they are doing is trying to catch up to the A1 and have not caught it yet so big deal. Always nice to see improvements but 50mp is plenty.
With all the things that the A1 does better the slight difference between 50 and 61mp is a yawner. When Sony comes out with a A1 with more MP and some other useful features like focus stacking or in camera pixel shift and more I will upgrade.
I could live with my A1 for the rest of my life it is a hell of a camera and we have excellent lenses.
Certainly enough to get the job done for the most discerning photographer.
Canon r5 is a beast after all. I wish a7rv will match canon in speed - 1/60s scan speed and 15/20fps with e shutter. Plus all the common canon/Sony features. That would be a great camera somewhere between a7iv and a1 and a1ii which is to be expected in less than year ?
A little off topic but since people are mentioning “sar” here - I wouldn’t rely much on their “rumors”. Essentially they worth nothing until like a day or two before the actual release. It seems to me the dude that runs the site wants to keep the audience engaged (i.e. clicking his affiliate links) with whatever controversial BS randomly comes to his mind. I quitted reading it in 2014.
Just be patient folks and in a few days we all know… so far I can predict with a 100% probability this new camera won’t replace my A1.
amv8 wrote:
and where's that focus stacking functionality?...
Focus stacking would be nice and could be implemented in a firmware update! Canon has it at 10 FPS and it makes handholding for DoF bracketing so much easier. Stephen Bay came up with a way to implement it using a Sony remote, but it's a little cumbersome and I expect would still require a tripod.
docusync wrote:
A little off topic but since people are mentioning “sar” here - I wouldn’t rely much on their “rumors”. Essentially they worth nothing until like a day or two before the actual release. It seems to me the dude that runs the site wants to keep the audience engaged (i.e. clicking his affiliate links) with whatever controversial BS randomly comes to his mind. I quitted reading it in 2014.
Just be patient folks and in a few days we all know… so far I can predict with a 100% probability this new camera won’t replace my A1.
I guess noone expect it to replace an a1. Unless you do landscapes only.
Bottlom line until it hits the streets it means nothing. Except planning on announcements that are official . It take a lot for me to move on something given I have the A1. Now something better on the EVF on my A7c would perk my interest
Suddenly I'm realizing that I'm spending more time on photographic literature than taking photos...
Now that I think about it carefully, given how old I am, what does it matter if they announce a camera with focus stacking or with higher resolution... I still have so many photos to take...
michal.narozny wrote:
Canon r5 is a beast after all. I wish a7rv will match canon in speed - 1/60s scan speed and 15/20fps with e shutter. Plus all the common canon/Sony features. That would be a great camera somewhere between a7iv and a1 and a1ii which is to be expected in less than year ?
This is what I've been saying for 2 years - I'd like a Canon R5 style camera in the Sony line up - a Goldilock model, if you will. Or just lower the price of the A1 to $3,900 :-)
