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Archive 2022 · Zeiss colors examples

DaveFP
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p.2 #1 · Zeiss colors examples

May 12, 2022 at 09:25 PM

ChrisMak
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p.2 #2 · Zeiss colors examples

Choderboy wrote:
New to photography.... What about colour space, gamut, profiles?
Maybe you are already aware, maybe not: depending on many factors, when viewing an image on a display, it could appear significantly different to what it really is. View the same image on the same device months later and it will probably be different again. View at the same time but with a different browser, editor or viewing software and it will probably be different again.

People spend many thousands on camera bodies and lenses to capture an image.
If you want that captured high image quality to be displayed also, you need a high quality printer or display. This apllies to color gamut as well as resolution. Imagine using expensive equipment to capture 8K video, only to view it on a 1080p monitor.
In the same way you can imagine capturing the high color quality of a Zeiss lens, only to display it on an uncalibrated small gamut display, being just as pointless.

May 13, 2022 at 06:41 AM

Robin Smith
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p.2 #3 · Zeiss colors examples

What does "high quality color" mean?

I could poke the bear some more, but, as you can tell, I remain profoundly skeptical about so many of these claims of the "special sauce" of Zeiss (and Leica for that matter, although I was a Leica user for 30 years).

May 13, 2022 at 09:55 AM

DaveFP
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p.2 #4 · Zeiss colors examples

Robin Smith wrote:
What does "high quality color" mean?

I could poke the bear some more, but, as you can tell, I remain profoundly skeptical about so many of these claims of the "special sauce" of Zeiss (and Leica for that matter, although I was a Leica user for 30 years).

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

You are certainly entitled to your profound scepticism.

That said the most likely explanation is that you don't have the "eye" to appreciate the differences.

That doesn't make you a bad person nor does it make you a bad photographer.

As I suggested above - people who buy these lenses see the difference, appreciate the difference, and can afford the difference.

That you don't does not diminish the validity of their perceptions.

I recently gave my son of couple of pairs of the finest headphones made.

I can no longer hear them to appreciate them so I gave them to someone who could.

May 13, 2022 at 10:32 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.2 #5 · Zeiss colors examples

I don't know if their are distinctive Zeiss colors or not. I have shot with a number of Zeiss lenses and they are highly represented in my favorite shots and I generally like the colors. I am not at all sure the colors are different from others lenses, however. Here are some examples all with different Zeiss lenses:

This is the Zeiss Contax 645 120 f/4 APO (a brilliant Zeiss lens)

May 13, 2022 at 11:04 AM

tuomkok
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p.2 #6 · Zeiss colors examples

I am fairly sure that "Zeiss colors" is a textual construction created somewhere in Internet forums or discussions between photographers. I have owned many Zeiss lenses and they have natural yet vibrant colors with good contrast, and some with that even vague 3d or "rendering"

But no doubt, Zeiss lenses are loved for a good reason. Zeiss lenses are also capable of producing nice colors in very controlled or even subtle light and harsh contrasty light. This is something that we expect - say - Sony GM lenses to deliver, but it was not so common 10-20 years ago.

Here is something I have shot with my Loxia 21 and 35, which I consider typical for Zeiss.

I also include something I have shot with ZF.2 28mm/2 "Hollywood Distagon" which I sold because it was heavy and difficult to focus. Now I regret parting that lens...

With all the aberrations and imperfections that 28mm is more Zeiss than any other lens I have ever shot with.

I do not consider Batis lenses true Zeiss, although the 135 is surprisingly good (25mm not so although an ok at its own right). I am fairly sure that with some time my relation with Batis 135 will get very close. That lens sure delivers!

Loxia 21

Loxia 35

ZF.2 28mm/2

And last the Batis 135

May 13, 2022 at 11:39 AM

guyharrison
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p.2 #7 · Zeiss colors examples

Nice shots, and, that Batis is "Zeiss" all the way. I find that generally true of all the Batis and my 25 is not noticeably inferior to any of the others. I will say that the 18,40 and 135 are absolute standouts.

May 13, 2022 at 12:32 PM

chez
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p.2 #8 · Zeiss colors examples

guyharrison wrote:
Nice shots, and, that Batis is "Zeiss" all the way. I find that generally true of all the Batis and my 25 is not noticeably inferior to any of the others. I will say that the 18,40 and 135 are absolute standouts.

Batis 25, 40 and 85 are now my go to travel lenses. They all produce beautiful colours and micro contrast.

May 13, 2022 at 01:10 PM

Minatureman13
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p.2 #9 · Zeiss colors examples

MARKFER wrote:
Saturation of color is garish while Zeiss seems to do it in other ways.

Nice way of putting it. Thanks.

May 14, 2022 at 10:10 AM

Minatureman13
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p.2 #10 · Zeiss colors examples

Steve Spencer wrote:
I don't know if their are distinctive Zeiss colors or not. I have shot with a number of Zeiss lenses and they are highly represented in my favorite shots and I generally like the colors. I am not at all sure the colors are different from others lenses, however. Here are some examples all with different Zeiss lenses:

---------------------------------------------

tuomkok wrote:
I am fairly sure that "Zeiss colors" is a textual construction created somewhere in Internet forums or discussions between photographers. I have owned many Zeiss lenses and they have natural yet vibrant colors with good contrast, and some with that even vague 3d or "rendering"

May 14, 2022 at 10:15 AM

Petegh
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p.2 #11 · Zeiss colors examples

Minatureman13 wrote:
Do you have any examples of photos that show "zeiss colors"?

Being somewhat new to photography, I never used the CY lenses, ZF lenses, or ZM lenses. So I don't really know what people mean when they talk about "zeiss colors".

I'd appreciate some examples if you have any.

+1 for everything philip says in his post above.

All I would add, is that you may not be aware that Zeiss has been around for a very long time, and for much of that time, their lenses were way better than most other brands on the market. As a result, they developed a reputation amongst the avant-garde/inteligencia of the time - a reputation that persists to this day.

When people talk about 'zeiss colours', they are referring to the specific colour palette their lenses produce, although in one sense, its not really any different to other brands, which also have their own distinct colour palette, visible to the discerning viewer. The history as to why this is, is rather complex: it can be as simple as the lens designers in a company simply like their colour a particular way, and design their lens coatings accordingly; different cultures favour certain colour palettes also - which can be reflected in their lenses output.

From a more strict scientific point of view, the differences in colour you may see between two brands lenses, are due to them having a different 'spectral power distribution', which is just a fancy way of saying that they transmit different percentages of each wavelength in the visible spectrum.

Don't beat yourself up if you're newish to photography and can't seem to see these differences, as Philip states, experience can play a big role here: the more images you see, what's known as your 'image maturity' will improve, and you'll start to be able to discern the differences. Good luck!

May 17, 2022 at 07:09 AM

DaveFP
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p.2 #12 · Zeiss colors examples

Petegh wrote:
+1 for everything philip says in his post above.

All I would add, is that you may not be aware that Zeiss has been around for a very long time, and for much of that time, their lenses were way better than most other brands on the market. As a result, they developed a reputation amongst the avant-garde/inteligencia of the time - a reputation that persists to this day.

When people talk about 'zeiss colours', they are referring to the specific colour palette their lenses produce, although in one sense, its not really any different to other brands, which also have their...Show more →

Glad to know that I am part of the avant-garde/intelligentsia.

I'll have to tell the wife and neighbors!

May 17, 2022 at 08:37 AM

chiron
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p.2 #13 · Zeiss colors examples

May 17, 2022 at 11:23 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.2 #14 · Zeiss colors examples

chiron wrote:
The following web site compares the Zeiss Batis 18mm lens to the Sony 20mm, so it gives you a good way to compare the Zeiss look to a very fine non-Zeiss lens.

There is also some very good photography at the site, so that is a bonus. The photographer/tester writes that he considers them both to be very fine lenses and very close optically.

However he does say that he sees more tonal gradations in the Zeiss shots. I do too, and it makes a very meaningful difference to me--the Zeiss shots have a depth, smoothness, and sparkle that exceeds...Show more →

I am a fan of the Batis 18 f/2.8, but after reading the linked article including the update in the summary. It does not appear that Dan Hawk in the end thought the Batis 18 had better color. He wrote:

I suspect and have already noticed in small ways that the Zeiss will have a little bit of an edge in really contrasty extreme light conditions. . .

(and then updated the article to read) I did have a chance to use the 18 in some more extreme light, but it never really performed better as I�d hoped it would.

So in the end it seems that Dan Hawk did not think the Zeiss Batis 18 performed better in contrasty light or had better color. Like I said earlier, I like the Batis 18 a lot and like the colors it produces, but like Dan Hawk I have a hard time seeing what clear advantages it has in color. That said it is an excellent lens with great colors. I am posting a couple of my favorite shots with it below.

May 17, 2022 at 11:51 AM

Cliff L.
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p.2 #15 · Zeiss colors examples

Minatureman13 wrote:
Do you have any examples of photos that show "zeiss colors"?

I don't think it's so much of a unique "Zeiss colour" as it is a purity of colour captured with the Zeiss lenses - not the muddy and tainted colours that everyone was used to seeing from so many of the popular Canon and Nikon SLR lenses. Seeing a clean, faithful rendition of a scene or subject was a real revelation that people found hard to describe.

May 17, 2022 at 12:14 PM

chiron
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p.2 #16 · Zeiss colors examples

Steve Spencer wrote:
I am a fan of the Batis 18 f/2.8, but after reading the linked article including the update in the summary. It does not appear that Dan Hawk in the end thought the Batis 18 had better color. He wrote:

I suspect and have already noticed in small ways that the Zeiss will have a little bit of an edge in really contrasty extreme light conditions. . .

(and then updated the article to read) I did have a chance to use the 18 in some more extreme light, but it never really performed better as I�d hoped it would.

So...Show more →

Hi Steve.

He also writes:
"Do I see any difference other than the field of view? Yes, but it is ever so slight. I see a slightly broader tonal contrast in the Zeiss image. Look in the areas with rich midtones like the moss on the right end of the log or the rocks in the foreground."

I see this also in a number of the images, and this is after post-processing of the images.

I did also write:
"The photographer/tester writes that he considers them both to be very fine lenses and very close optically."

Nice photos!

May 17, 2022 at 12:50 PM

nehemiahphoto
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p.2 #17 · Zeiss colors examples

One thing that has not been discussed yet aside from Zeissness is which type. Their lines have very different signatures�CY, G, N, ZA (e and a mount), ZF/ZE, Batis, Loxia, Conarex, CF�many more too. And I highly suspect M, but I have only really shot three M lenses extensively. Zeissness is a concept/discussion for decades now. I have only shot their medium format stuff a little bit, and on film. I know they color correct their cine lenses too, which is another whole thing.

To me, the Contax G, CY and ZF have the prettiest renditions. For a modern look, the ZM 35/Loxia 21 and 85 look superb and similar with extremely high micro-contrast and deep neutral color, though still natural looking�the files are not crunchy or overly digital looking to me like many modern lenses.

I like many of the ZA lenses, but their contrast is different, their colors more luminous (ZA 35/1.4, 50/1.4, 135/1.8, 85/1.4, 55/1.8, etc.) The Batis lenses I have shot land closer to these ZA�s than Loxias.

The ZF�s, like the 28/2, 100/2, 135/2, 35/1.4 etc seem to have a different palate and �moodier� draw. It�s quite lovely.

It is really interesting when Zeiss ports one optical formula across lines�like the 28/2 Hollywood. People were paying more (for a while anyway) for the CY version as it had more �magic.� I think they just preferred the more �organic� CY palate.

I�ve seen, heard and read many talking about that neutral and transparent look of Otus (APO Zeiss).

Of course the tonal signatures and contrast vary within lines,, but I feel like the lines are fairly consistent. I believe that is a deliberate decision by Zeiss.

Some photos from the different lines that I feel represent different signatures:

The one common denominator, which is truly amazing, is that there is this massive reverence for Zeiss of any era compared to peers. They really do understand and control their color reproduction, contrast and tonal renditions in such a harmonious way.

Loxia

Batis

May 17, 2022 at 01:16 PM

philip_pj
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p.2 #18 · Zeiss colors examples

CZ colours can have a huge impact on portraits, an advantage overlooked by many. Skin tones remain intact even as colours approach the gamut wall. Much less (if any) post recovery is needed. The CY look here.

May 17, 2022 at 05:17 PM

Petegh
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p.2 #19 · Zeiss colors examples

chiron wrote:
Hi Steve.

He also writes:
"Do I see any difference other than the field of view? Yes, but it is ever so slight. I see a slightly broader tonal contrast in the Zeiss image. Look in the areas with rich midtones like the moss on the right end of the log or the rocks in the foreground."

I see this also in a number of the images, and this is after post-processing of the images.

I did also write:
"The photographer/tester writes that he considers them both to be very fine lenses and very close optically."

Nice photos!

Thanks for that comparison link; I recall reading it when it first came out, and being surprised at his conclusion - as I had clearly preferred the Batis images in each example given (at equivalent apertures). His updated thoughts do nothing to change my opinion, but I spose that's the point: he could see a difference, but it wasn't worth the extra price, poorer ergos etc for him.

To me, image quality, and the overall gestault of the image, is the most important factor; sure, there are things about the Batis I don't like (non-linear focus, poor manual focus 'feel', innacurate OLED DOF scale etc), but I can live with those to get the look I'm after, and its a look the Sony doesn't give me - so I don't really have a choice in the end.

EDIT: I should qualify that my comments are in relation to stopped down, deep-DOF photos - which is how I use the lens; if I was shooting astro, I'd use the faster Sony; if I was shooting a lot of shallow depth of field stuff, I'd use the Sony - as its bookeh is smoother.

May 18, 2022 at 07:42 AM

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