Looking to buy a used M10. What are any key things I need to watch out for when purchasing used?
(I recall with M8, M9, and 240 there was high ISO banding issues, etc)
The M 10 doesn't have those issues. Usable at 20,000 ISO. Be careful with your highlights. If they are gone they are gone. Nothing to pull back. It is a GREAT camera. I liked it so much I bought a second one and also an M 10 Monochrom. I would also recommend a couple of extra batteries if you shoot a lot and for long periods of time.
Are you referring to things that are inherent to the camera itself regardless of use condition, or things that should be checked for as a sign of the camera’s condition (e.g. sensor corrosion on the m9)?
As far as the quirks of the camera, there really aren’t any major ones. For the M10 models with 24Mpx sensors, base iso should be set to 200. Take care of protecting the LCD screen, as it’s easily chipped at the corners & along the edges (ask me how I know…). You might want two batteries, depending on how you shoot. The camera will happily serve you for many years to come.
As far as checking for condition, there’s also not too much to it. M10 models are very durable and made to even higher standards than previous generations. There’s a shutter lock-open function (cleaning mode) that allows you to examine the sensor for damage / cleanliness. For models with LCD screens, you can mount a good lens on the body and easily check for accuracy of the rangefinder mechanism. Focus through the rangefinder and cross check with live view (peaking) or image preview. The finish on the black chrome bodies is done differently on the M10 generation; the surface won’t show the typical “brassing” with wear, but rather bright marks, i.e. areas that are rubbed to a higher polish, with the underlying silver layer showing through. Check for these spots next to the camera strap lugs and on the top plate. There’s not a way to get a shutter count from the camera. You can examine the image file sequence number but keep in mind that the previous owner can reset this.
The original M10 model has a louder shutter sound and lacks touchscreen functionality along with a couple other nice-to-have conveniences. All subsequent M10 variants have those addressed (except no screen on the M10-D). Keep that in mind if you often find yourself in situations where discreetness is paramount. The original M10 shutter sound will definitely get you noticed even when you’re on the street, 6 - 9ft away from your subject…
Best of luck with your search and keep us updated when you’ve found a good one! Excited for you
cary.z wrote:
Are you referring to things that are inherent to the camera itself regardless of use condition, or things that should be checked for as a sign of the camera’s condition (e.g. sensor corrosion on the m9)?
As far as the quirks of the camera, there really aren’t any major ones. For the M10 models with 24Mpx sensors, base iso should be set to 200. Take care of protecting the LCD screen, as it’s easily chipped at the corners & along the edges (ask me how I know…). You might want two batteries, depending on how you shoot. The camera will happily serve you for many years to come.
As far as checking for condition, there’s also not too much to it. M10 models are very durable and made to even higher standards than previous generations. There’s a shutter lock-open function (cleaning mode) that allows you to examine the sensor for damage / cleanliness. For models with LCD screens, you can mount a good lens on the body and easily check for accuracy of the rangefinder mechanism. Focus through the rangefinder and cross check with live view (peaking) or image preview. The finish on the black chrome bodies is done differently on the M10 generation; the surface won’t show the typical “brassing” with wear, but rather bright marks, i.e. areas that are rubbed to a higher polish, with the underlying silver layer showing through. Check for these spots next to the camera strap lugs and on the top plate. There’s not a way to get a shutter count from the camera. You can examine the image file sequence number but keep in mind that the previous owner can reset this.
The original M10 model has a louder shutter sound and lacks touchscreen functionality along with a couple other nice-to-have conveniences. All subsequent M10 variants have those addressed (except no screen on the M10-D). Keep that in mind if you often find yourself in situations where discreetness is paramount. The original M10 shutter sound will definitely get you noticed even when you’re on the street, 6 - 9ft away from your subject…
Best of luck with your search and keep us updated when you’ve found a good one! Excited for you ...Show more →
Thanks so much for this. Very informative. Had a M8 up til last fall, and am looking to upgrade shortly.
The M 10 is a lot different from the M-9 let alone the M-8. It's responsive and good at high ISO. I thought the M 10 shutter was quiet especially compared to the M 262 or original MM M9/ME until I picked up the M 10 mono. So if you can spring for an M 10 P with the quieter shutter it might be worth it.
airfrogusmc wrote:
The M 10 is a lot different from the M-9 let alone the M-8. It's responsive and good at high ISO. I thought the M 10 shutter was quiet especially compared to the M 262 or original MM M9/ME until I picked up the M 10 mono. So if you can spring for an M 10 P with the quieter shutter it might be worth it.
+1 ^
I'm remiss to recall what the "other" thing is that the M-10P offers over the regular M-10 (buffer, longer SS, or ) in addition to the shutter, but my point is that I'm in agreement with Allen. I'm personally on the fence to whether I'll upgrade to the M-10P or M-10R ... but, it's not likely I'll get the regular M10 (just gotta save more pennies), coming from my M-P (240) and pull the trigger to sell my M-P.
For you (OP), the jump to the M10 (regular, P or R) will be a quantum leap more than me going from M-P to M-10P or M-10R ... the P or R just being the premium models in the 10 series (imo).
That said, I'm thinking that unless someone is looking at M11 / M12 territory ... the M-10 should stay in the bag for a long time. Thus, Allen's advice about the P (or R).
RustyBug wrote:
I'm remiss to recall what the "other" thing is that the M-10P offers over the regular M-10 (buffer, longer SS, or ) in addition to the shutter,
cary.z wrote:
The original M10 model has a louder shutter sound and lacks touchscreen functionality along with a couple other nice-to-have conveniences. All subsequent M10 variants have those addressed (except no screen on the M10-D). Keep that in mind if you often find yourself in situations where discreetness is paramount. The original M10 shutter sound will definitely get you noticed even when you’re on the street, 6 - 9ft away from your subject…
Sure, the shutter on the M10-P and later models is quieter than the M10’s, but my own experience suggests that discreteness has less to do with physical factors such as the loudness of the shutter and the size of the camera & lens combination than it does with one’s ability to become essentially invisible. I had no difficulty photographing on the street at subject distances less than 6 feet with an M246 which is even noisier than an M10. Photographers are either discreet or indiscreet, not shutters.
The original M10 model has a louder shutter sound and lacks touchscreen functionality along with a couple other nice-to-have conveniences. All subsequent M10 variants have those addressed (except no screen on the M10-D). Keep that in mind if you often find yourself in situations where discreetness is paramount. The original M10 shutter sound will definitely get you noticed even when you’re on the street, 6 - 9ft away from your subject…
Best of luck with your search and keep us updated when you’ve found a good one! Excited for you
M10 model has a louder shutter, this is true, but in real life shooting conditions you won't really perceive it, unless you put both cameras together.
M10 shutter is already silent enough, if you get notice due to the m10 shutter you will also get notice with the m10D shutter. In real life situations both are as loud, if you want silent, you need to use an electronic shutter which none have.
I would go for the m10p mostly due to resale value, not even the touch screen. But given the significant difference in used market price, i would probably still end with an m10.
Check for sticky iso dial and stuck curtain if you are buying used, as rangefinder alignment.
genji wrote:
Sure, the shutter on the M10-P and later models is quieter than the M10’s, but my own experience suggests that discreteness has less to do with physical factors such as the loudness of the shutter and the size of the camera & lens combination than it does with one’s ability to become essentially invisible. I had no difficulty photographing on the street at subject distances less than 6 feet with an M246 which is even noisier than an M10. Photographers are either discreet or indiscreet, not shutters.
I agree that it is how you work on the street more than shutter sound. And the M 10 is pretty quiet until, like you said, you put it next to say the M 10 Monochrom which is a whisper. I didn't have any real issues on the streets with the original MM shutter.
To the iso dial on the M 10s and now the M 11 I am one that really likes it. In my opinion and from my perspective, another reason to choose an M 10 or M 10 P.
Something to look with early M10 bodies is the ISO dial. It malfunctioned in many cameras making ISO stuck to a setting leaving shooters unable to change it even using the menu.
Depending on the age the battery might be on it's way out. M10's don't have the best battery life and unfortunately you can't get any third party batteries so you may want to factor that into the cost of pickup up a used m10.
Frostefdflake wrote:
Well, here I'm Ontario there aren't too many available used. M10-P and M10-R are also on my radar. Also looking in the Montréal area as well.
Will be mindful of the ISO dial. Thanks for that.
If M10-R is on your radar, I would get that over an M10. Much of the price difference may be recoverable at the time of future resale.
I still have my original batteries from when I bought my first M 10 July 2017 almost 5 years and knock on wood they are still working just fine. I use them a lot so they are being drained and recharged regularly.
airfrogusmc wrote:
I still have my original batteries from when I bought my first M 10 July 2017 almost 5 years and knock on wood they are still working just fine. I use them a lot so they are being drained and recharged regularly.
Yep. I got two spare batteries for the M10-P I bought in January 2019 and I’m still using those three batteries in the M10-R that replaced it.
) in addition to the shutter, but my point is that I'm in agreement with Allen. I'm personally on the fence to whether I'll upgrade to the M-10P or M-10R ... but, it's not likely I'll get the regular M10 (just gotta save more pennies), coming from my M-P (240) and pull the trigger to sell my M-P.