fredmiranda.com

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site

New Feature: SMS Notification alert

New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist

FM Forums | Nikon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1 2 3 … 83

85 … 92 93 end

Official 800PF image and discussion thread

ChrisMak
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.84 #1 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

For those that have used the Z800PF and the Z600TC: if intending to shoot 99% at 800mm (or 840mm in case of the 600TC), is the 800PF at the same level with regards to rendering and overall image quality as the Z600TC (with TC engaged)?

I am currently using the A1+600GM, it works great, but now that Nikon has a fully matured lens system, I intend to migrate back to Nikon over the coming year, having been a Nikon user in the past.
Given the immense cost involved with switching to a Z8+Z600TC (I cannot easily sell the A1 and 600GM where I live, people mostly use consumer level equipment, and I will have to trade in at my camera store, which means 40% loss on the lens and 50% loss on the camera), I am considering adding a Z8+800PF combo, keep the 600GM and when the 800PF is the perfect lens for me, I can trade in the 600GM and A1 for a Z400TC in due time.

For my type of shooting, I would probably have the Z600TC at 840mm most of the time. I crop at least to DX frame 90% of the time when using the 600GM.
The Z400TC would be a great lens for trips like the one to Costa Rica that I have planned. And of course for the BIF with the integrated 1.4TC and larger wildlife. In a way, it would replace the 600GM, that I shoot bare at f4 all the time. I saw a decent amount of reviews on the Z400TC with both internal �nd external 1.4TC to get to 784mm, but have decided I won't go that route.

In truth, I have lost all interest in the smaller, slower (and more affordable) lenses, have my interest in Nikon now narrowed down to the Z400TC, Z600TC and the Z800PF, and don't mind carrying/using a bigger heavier lens. But the Z800PF on the Z8 would of course be very welcome with regards to the weight and size savings over the 600GM.

May 24, 2024 at 04:38 AM

Alistair1
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.84 #2 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

May 24, 2024 at 05:47 AM

ChrisMak
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.84 #3 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

Alistair1 wrote:
I have the 800 and Z9 and am very happy with them. But not sure I would swap out of a 600/4 for them. That's top of the tree regardless of brand and the 800 is great but a level down optically, don't know how they compare with the 1.4x attached but I think Steve Perry did a video comparing them a while back. Do you really save much weight going to a Z8/800pf?

The Z800pf is 1000gr lighter than the 600GM with 1.4tc.
So yes, I would say that is a substantial weight savings, as well as a reduction in size.
The 600/4 lenses are great, especially for BIF and low light shooting. But to avoid deep cropping, for birds at least, the 1.4TC is neccessary, and then the 600GM becomes a more ordinary lens being f5.6.
So if the 800PF can match the 600 with 1.4TC in performance and image quality, then I will get it with a Z8.

Later on I can then decide if I will trade in the 600GM with A1 for the Z400TC.
I have no way of renting one, but I know there are quite a few users here who have bothe the 800PF and a 600/4.

May 24, 2024 at 07:26 AM

nmerc_photos
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.84 #4 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

ChrisMak wrote:
For those that have used the Z800PF and the Z600TC: if intending to shoot 99% at 800mm (or 840mm in case of the 600TC), is the 800PF at the same level with regards to rendering and overall image quality as the Z600TC (with TC engaged)?

I am currently using the A1+600GM, it works great, but now that Nikon has a fully matured lens system, I intend to migrate back to Nikon over the coming year, having been a Nikon user in the past.
Given the immense cost involved with switching to a Z8+Z600TC (I cannot easily sell the A1 and 600GM where...Show more →

I do not currently own both, but I did in the past. I sold the 600TC.

at 800mm, the 800PF is better in just about every way. lighter, shorter, sharper. the only thing you might find is minor differences in bokeh, which could sway towards either lens. AF may also be a consideration, but my shooting is not refined enough to notice a difference.

it's not a Sony equivalent, but I moved from Canon with the R5 + RF 600 F4 + RF 1.4x to the Z9 + 800PF because it was such a better (and cheaper!) setup when I was mainly shooting out at 800mm.

I think you will be super pleased with the 400TC/800PF combo. it's the best of both worlds. The 400TC is noticeably smaller and lighter than the 600TC, and packs way easier for air travel. Up to 800mm, all of the lenses are extremely close. All you'd really lose out on is 1680mm (2x + 1.4x).

I had a similar thought process to you. The 400TC + 1.4x is as good or better than a naked 600mm, and the 800PF is as good or better than a 600mm + 1.4x. Going from a 600mm to the 400TC is very easy, because you essentially keep your 600mm lens but also get to drop down to 400mm and gain an extra stop of light as needed.

the biggest downside of the 800PF is the MFD, which is 16.4' vs 13.1' for the 600TC. sometimes that can make all the difference in the world... for example, recently shooting migration at Magee Marsh. birds were often in the 5' - 15' range which made the 800PF useless, the 600TC difficult, and the 400TC perfect. being able to reach out to 560 f4 or 784 f5.6 and keep the 8' MFD is a great advantage.

May 24, 2024 at 01:00 PM

ChrisMak
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.84 #5 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

nmerc_photos wrote:
I do not currently own both, but I did in the past. I sold the 600TC.

at 800mm, the 800PF is better in just about every way. lighter, shorter, sharper. the only thing you might find is minor differences in bokeh, which could sway towards either lens. AF may also be a consideration, but my shooting is not refined enough to notice a difference.

it's not a Sony equivalent, but I moved from Canon with the R5 + RF 600 F4 + RF 1.4x to the Z9 + 800PF because it was such a better (and cheaper!) setup when I was...Show more →

Thanks, this is extremely useful.
In all regards really.

I have been mainly shooting locally (meaning no flights involved) for the past years. My main area is a collection of small tidal islands that are situated right on the large europe - africa bird migration route.
Meaning that many birds pause their migration journey and stay for a few weeks to feed and regain weight for the second part of the journey.
These birds are only in contact with humans for a few weeks each year and are extremely shy. Many wading birds like plovers, godwits, curlews etc. but also many small songbirds in the bushes that are extremely shy.
That explains the use for 800mm without ever really needing to go back to 600mm.
The 600TC would not really make that much sense for me, as I am almost always cropping deep with the 600GM.
I shoot handheld exclusively and don't (yet) care for hides.

So in short, if the 800PF is really as good or better than the 600TC with the TC engaged, and I take it from someone who has used both, then it will be glued to a future Z8 for all these trips. I really like that Nikon made it bright enough and enabled the background separation I want with this lens.

Next to that, I am starting to get interested in journeys a bit further from home, and having planned a trip to Costa Rica in november, it started to get me thinking about air travel and bags to fit a 600mm with body attached without violating air travel carry on rules. It is a bit of a practical nuisance having to take a bag that won't fit the 600GM with A1 attached, as I will have to demount every time I have to pack the lens to move on, or to protect it from heavy rainfall.
Besides, the lack of light and the lesser need for long focal length (all of the time) makes the Z400TC ideal. That may also apply to other future trips, so in a way I am glad to hear you praise the 800PF. A 800PF and Z400TC combination would be very versatile, and may fit my needs exactly.
What is also very comforting in my situation, that it gives me the ability to have both the Sony A1+600GM combo and the nikon Z8+800PF combo, giving me the opportunity to evaluate the switch before I go all in with the Nikon Z400TC. The loss on the Sony combo is acceptable, but only if I am sure that Nikon fits me with the Z8 and 800PF. The Z400TC is an absolute dreamlens, the images I see from it are overall just wonderful.

Edited on May 24, 2024 at 01:43 PM · View previous versions

May 24, 2024 at 01:36 PM

CanadaMark
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.84 #6 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

May 24, 2024 at 01:42 PM

ChrisMak
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.84 #7 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

CanadaMark wrote:
The 800 is better compared to the 600/4 TC with TC engaged (but obviously the 600 is still good at 840). There is no substitute for the bare 800mm though - if you want 800mm, the 800PF is definitely the best choice. If you ALSO do a lot of shooting at 600/4 (that aperture is what you are paying for), then its a good choice, but since you said you would have the TC engaged 99% of the time, the 800PF is a no brainer - sharper, lighter, smaller, cheaper, better MFD.

Thanks, this is really starting to get encouraging.
Do note that if the Z8 and 800PF fit my needs, I will trade in the sony gear for the Z400TC, which also gives me 560mm and f4, and would make a near ideal travel lens.

B.T.W. I have had some reservations regarding the Z8, firstly AF, but proper firmware support appears to have solved most of that, if not all.
But also the relatively low EVF resolution, compared to the A1, which has been a revelation.
The ergonomics however are spot on, much like the D500 that I had and absolutely loved regarding size.
I have confidence that Nikon will release a Z8 mkII in a few years, and as the body is priced much more reasonably that the A1, I can live with the idea of upgrading in a few years time.

May 24, 2024 at 01:46 PM

CanadaMark
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.84 #8 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

ChrisMak wrote:
Thanks, this is really starting to get encouraging.
Do note that if the Z8 and 800PF fit my needs, I will trade in the sony gear for the Z400TC, which also gives me 560mm and f4, and would make a near ideal travel lens.

If you're also going to get the 400 TC then I think that is an even stronger argument for the 800mm over the 600. The 400 takes TCs so well you will only have a small gap between 560 and 800mm which frankly I don't think you would ever miss. And the 800 gives you a very sharp 1120mm F9.

May 24, 2024 at 02:07 PM

nmerc_photos
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.84 #9 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

ChrisMak wrote:
Thanks, this is extremely useful.
In all regards really.

I have been mainly shooting locally (meaning no flights involved) for the past years. My main area is a collection of small tidal islands that are situated right on the large europe - africa bird migration route.
Meaning that many birds pause their migration journey and stay for a few weeks to feed and regain weight for the second part of the journey.
These birds are only in contact with humans for a few weeks each year and are extremely shy. Many wading birds like plovers, godwits, curlews etc. but also many small songbirds in...Show more →

I think based on what you are saying here, the 800PF would be a perfect fit for you. Keeps lots of distance from the shy birds, is significantly smaller/lighter than the 600TC - and most users (even 70+ year olds) find they can handhold the 800PF all day.

It really is such an insane lens. It has no right to be as good as it is, for the price. Heck, they are selling used for $4500 USD right now.

Your sentiments about Costa Rica echo mine. I have a few trips coming up soon, Iceland in September 2024, Yellowstone in October 2024, Hawaii in April 2025, Alaska (Katmai for bears) in September 2025, and then probably looking to do Costa Rica and Africa both sometime in 2026. For all of these, the 400mm focal length, f2.8 aperture, and the size/weight and ease of packing will be perfect.

I have a post over on BCG comparing a bunch of the common backpacks, and I am building a spreadsheet that shows which ones are best for long lenses:

https://bcgforums.com/threads/big-prime-camera-bags-backpacks.34046/

I've found that the Shimoda 35L V2 fits the best as a small bag (international flights) and can fit 2x Z9 + 400TC + 100-400. The Nya Evo 60L is the best as a larger bag (US flights) and can fit 2x Z9 + 400TC + 100-400 + 35-150 + misc other lenses.

CanadaMark wrote:
The 800 is better compared to the 600/4 TC with TC engaged (but obviously the 600 is still good at 840). There is no substitute for the bare 800mm though - if you want 800mm, the 800PF is definitely the best choice. If you ALSO do a lot of shooting at 600/4 (that aperture is what you are paying for), then its a good choice, but since you said you would have the TC engaged 99% of the time, the 800PF is a no brainer - sharper, lighter, smaller, cheaper, better MFD.

One correction - the 800PF has WORSE MFD, by about 25%. 16.4' vs 13.1' on the 600TC.

May 24, 2024 at 02:22 PM

CanadaMark
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.84 #10 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

nmerc_photos wrote:
One correction - the 800PF has WORSE MFD, by about 25%. 16.4' vs 13.1' on the 600TC.

You are correct, I meant magnification not MFD, but nobody else would have known that

Thank you for pointing that out.

The 800PF has a maximum reproduction ratio of 0.16x vs 0.14x for the 600TC. With 1.4TCs the 600TC bumps up to ~2.0X and the 800PF ~0.22X,

May 24, 2024 at 02:27 PM

nmerc_photos
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.84 #11 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

CanadaMark wrote:
You are correct, I meant magnification not MFD, but nobody else would have known that

Thank you for pointing that out.

The 800PF has a maximum reproduction ratio of 0.16x vs 0.14x for the 600TC. With 1.4TCs the 600TC bumps up to ~2.0X and the 800PF ~0.22X,

I thought that might be what you meant haha.

I still don't really know enough about magnification to speak on it though. One of the aspects I'm actively trying to learn more about.

Wouldn't that statement mean the 600TC has better magnification at 840mm though? 0.2 vs 0.16?

May 24, 2024 at 02:41 PM

CanadaMark
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.84 #12 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

nmerc_photos wrote:
I thought that might be what you meant haha.

I still don't really know enough about magnification to speak on it though. One of the aspects I'm actively trying to learn more about.

Wouldn't that statement mean the 600TC has better magnification at 840mm though? 0.2 vs 0.16?

Magnification as expressed like above refers to how big the subject is when projected onto the image sensor. 1.0X magnification or 1:1 (true macro) means that the subject is the same size in real life as it it's projection onto the sensor or "life sized". Below 1.0X, the projection is obviously smaller, as in the values referenced above. Super macro lenses can go beyond 1:1 to for example 5:1, where the image is larger than life-sized.

And yes you are correct that the 600/4 TC with TC engaged has a higher reproduction ratio than the bare 800PF, however since you can also put a 1.4TC on the 800PF, that would be the most relevant comparison at least in my opinion. TCs do not change MFD so they are a direct multiple on top of the magnification ratio.

May 24, 2024 at 03:00 PM

nmerc_photos
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.84 #13 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

CanadaMark wrote:
Magnification as expressed like above refers to how big the subject is when projected onto the image sensor. 1.0X magnification or 1:1 (true macro) means that the subject is the same size in real life as it it's projection onto the sensor or "life sized". Below 1.0X, the projection is obviously smaller, as in the values referenced above. Super macro lenses can go beyond 1:1 to for example 5:1, where the image is larger than life-sized.

And yes you are correct that the 600/4 TC with TC engaged has a higher reproduction ratio than the bare 800PF, however since you can...Show more →

I see, thanks for clarifying. And is it somewhat true that magnification is measured at MFD? Does it get worse the further away you go?

I have been trying to read up but haven't found many good sources. People were saying zooms usually have better magnification, but it isn't as effective since you have to be, say 5' away vs 16.4' away.

If you have any good reading or videos you can link about the subject, I'd love that!

May 24, 2024 at 03:15 PM

CanadaMark
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.84 #14 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

nmerc_photos wrote:
I see, thanks for clarifying. And is it somewhat true that magnification is measured at MFD? Does it get worse the further away you go?

I have been trying to read up but haven't found many good sources. People were saying zooms usually have better magnification, but it isn't as effective since you have to be, say 5' away vs 16.4' away.

If you have any good reading or videos you can link about the subject, I'd love that!

Most lenses achieve their highest magnification ratio at maximum telephoto and MFD but there are some exceptions where zoom lenses achieve their highest magnification ratio at a focal length other than their maximum. The ones I know of are wide angle zooms, where the ability to be so physically close to the subject at very short focal lengths outweighs the benefit you get from the long end of the focal range. Canon's RF UWAs come to mind, and I believe also their RF 24-105 has its maximum magnification ratio at 24mm rather than 105mm. For a prime there is only one focal length so it's at MFD. Yes magnification gets worse the further away you go, all else equal, but it's not always a perfectly linear relationship.

Zooms almost always have better magnification than primes, and all the exotic telephoto primes have pretty bad magnification. For example the 180-600 has a maximum reproduction ratio of 0.25X at 7.88ft at 600mm and the 100-400 is 0.38X at 3.22ft at 400mm. Zoom lens designs are far more flexible and they can reduce their focal length to increase their focal range at certain distances. The reduced flexibility and greater simplicity of the big primes is part of the reason they tend to perform better in general and at greater distances, but as usual literally everything in photography is a tradeoff.

Why magnification ratio is important for the big primes like the 800mm is it allows you to be farther from the subject while still getting a similar sized image to a shorter focal length and closer subject distance. The 800mm at 16.7ft produces a larger image than the 600mm at 14.1ft, so if you are shooting skittish, smaller, or more distant subjects, that is a huge benefit. Both receive the same benefits when using a 1.4TC, but the MFD does not change and therefore neither does your distance to the subject assuming your goal is maximum magnification. At infinity focus, it simply comes down to the difference between 600mm and 800mm (or whatever focal lengths you are comparing) and all lenses have their advertised focal lengths measured at infinity.

As for articles or videos, none that come to mind as it's not something I have recently looked at. I took a quick look and this one seems decent: https://photographylife.com/what-is-magnification

May 24, 2024 at 04:14 PM

ingekj
Offline
•
Upload & Sell: Off

p.84 #15 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

Going from an A1 with a 600GM and taking a 50% loss to get a Z8 and 800Pf is kind of crazy financially for me, but if money is no object then hey. I have used both, own a Z9 and 800PF. It is lighter and easier to handhold, and the image stabilisation is quite a bit better. It is quite a lot slower to focus than your combo, and struggles to focus from far to MFD, which is also quite long. This can get quite frustrating in forests.
As far as sharpness the 600GM is quite a bit sharper with more contrast. That also goes for the 600TC. Here is a sharpness comparison between the two:
https://photographylife.com/reviews/nikon-z-600mm-f-4-tc-vr-s/3

Even with the tc engaged it is quite a bit sharper. The 800PF is the weakest of the Nikon superteles sharpness wise, but it is a 2.3kg 800mm which there is no alternatives to. However that does not mean it is not sharp, but it does not quite let you crop as much as the 600GM or 600TC but it does get crisper with contrast in editing. And it is a bargain price wise.

May 25, 2024 at 12:30 PM

JustShootMe
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.84 #16 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

Nevermore .. no crops

NIKON Z f NIKKOR Z 800mm f/6.3 VR S lens 800mm f/7.1 1/1000s 11400 ISO 0.0 EV

NIKON Z f NIKKOR Z 800mm f/6.3 VR S lens 800mm f/9.0 1/1000s 25600 ISO 0.0 EV

May 25, 2024 at 02:54 PM

Alistair1
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.84 #17 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

ingekj wrote:
Going from an A1 with a 600GM and taking a 50% loss to get a Z8 and 800Pf is kind of crazy financially for me, but if money is no object then hey. I have used both, own a Z9 and 800PF. It is lighter and easier to handhold, and the image stabilisation is quite a bit better. It is quite a lot slower to focus than your combo, and struggles to focus from far to MFD, which is also quite long. This can get quite frustrating in forests.
As far as sharpness the 600GM is quite a bit sharper...Show more →
I am not convinced by those PL results. They are something of an outlier compared to the results of other reviewers. Shooting any 800mm lens takes some getting used used to.

May 25, 2024 at 04:00 PM

Alistair1
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.84 #18 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

ChrisMak wrote:
The Z800pf is 1000gr lighter than the 600GM with 1.4tc.
So yes, I would say that is a substantial weight savings, as well as a reduction in size.
The 600/4 lenses are great, especially for BIF and low light shooting. But to avoid deep cropping, for birds at least, the 1.4TC is neccessary, and then the 600GM becomes a more ordinary lens being f5.6.
So if the 800PF can match the 600 with 1.4TC in performance and image quality, then I will get it with a Z8.

Later on I can then decide if I will trade in the 600GM with A1...Show more →

You clearly have given it a lot of thought and know what you are doing so the best of luck with it all. The 800pf/400TC is one sweet combo.

May 25, 2024 at 09:09 PM

ChrisMak
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.84 #19 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

Alistair1 wrote:
I am not convinced by those PL results. They are something of an outlier compared to the results of other reviewers. Shooting any 800mm lens takes some getting used used to.

On top of that, I'm not sure about the practical relevance of comparing sharpness of a 600mm lens with that of a 800mm lens. For it to be practically relevant, you would have to crop the 600mm image to the FOV of the 800mm lens. And even then, you get a lot more pixels on the subject with a 800mm lens, which has benefits for printing and post processing.

The Sony 600GM is a terrific lens, but as I explained, I crop the images considerably 90% of the time, and while the lens holds up to cropping well, it does mean I use a small portion of the full frame sensor.
Ultimately, I think there is no way around trying the 800PF myself, the opinions are very diverse on this lens, some praise it as a steal, and some find it is a considerable step behind the 400 and 600 lenses regarding contrast, sharpness and auto focus performance.

I should just get one, and decide later on if I can let the Sony go for a Z400TC, or if the 800PF is too much of a step back.

May 26, 2024 at 10:02 AM

bs kite
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.84 #20 · Official 800PF image and discussion thread

JustShootMe wrote:
Nevermore .. no crops

This Raven is a spectacle ! These are the most impacting images of a Raven I can remember

imo, the Raven is what makes this spectacular image.

I wish photographers would at least ID the animals they post. It only takes a minute because the internet is full of references.

Thank you.

May 26, 2024 at 11:19 AM

1 2 3 … 83 84 85 … 92 93 end
FM Forums \| Nikon Forum \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 … 83 84 85 … 92 93 end