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Archive 2022 · Best photography workshop for first timer?

  
 
MRomine
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p.2 #1 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


As has been mentioned, from where you live, you have access to some incredible locations to shoot. Before I would put down $4-$7K for a workshop I would see if I could pull off organizing and finding locations to create my own, if you will, personal workshop. You could take a few of these trips for the price of one 'Pro' workshop. Even if your skill level is somewhere near beginner level you will learn a whole lot by doing and trying it yourself. Maybe invite a photo friend to go along with you. If after doing two or three of these and you are not seeing the results that you want then maybe think about paying for a workshop.


May 29, 2022 at 10:38 PM
AZHeaven
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p.2 #2 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


AHanson wrote:
Yep, it has been a rough 2.5 years for me (like many) and I'm just getting back behind my camera. So one of the things my wife suggested is that I go on a photography workshop to get back into the 'swing of things'. Which is a very nice hall pass to get. So I went to Google and searched for best photography workshops and found this article: https://www.photographytalk.com/top-photography-workshops-to-attend-in-2020-2021

Now I have never been on a photography workshop and spent some time jumping through each of the workshops on this list webpages. Dang, photography workshops are pricey. But I guess you
...Show more

Without knowing your rough past 2.5 years, the same for me. Anyway, I get that.

I would say just save the money and go on Youtube. IMHO one of the best landscape photographers out there right now is Mark Denney.

Like others have said, you are close to some great places to photograph. Is there a camera club near you that you could look into?

I want to add that the L.A. County Arboretum is approx. 50 min drive away. I know, I know...L.A. traffic will probably triple that time! Was there a couple of years ago and loved it. Another place we liked was The Huntington Library, Art Museum and Botanical Gardens. I'm mentioning these places as it's a go at your own pace, have fun and take photos.




May 30, 2022 at 06:18 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #3 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


Here's the thing. This has been an interesting thread. But I think the most important thing it reveals is that there's no one right answer to any of this. Sorry.

If one is the autodidact type, reading and watching online videos might get you where you want to be and do so at a lower cost. But maybe you are not that type of learner, in which case something else will work better — taking classes, finding a mentor, attending good workshops.

(I learned about this issue years ago in a different context. I tend to be the autodidact type in many ways. I was working on a project with another person — a very bright and competent person who did excellent work. But this person's learning style was completely different than mine. My autodidactic, "screw around and figure things out" approach was a non-starter, and this person learned very, very well by doing things like working methodically through manuals and similar. To be honest, I tend to think that some combination of approaches is best, but that's a long story...)

So, question #1: What is the ideal way for one to learn more about photography? Without knowing your personal level of development, goals, and affinities for different ways of learning it is really hard to say. (It may be a good idea to first think carefully about how your learn best.)

There are some good workshops out there. In fact there are some really great and potentially transformational workshops. (I know folks in this category.) There are also some run by folks who "got into photography recently," are good publicists, and who know not all that much about photography. (I've known more than one.) Some know a lot about photography but are mediocre to poor teachers. Some see workshops as the only way to make enough money to support their photography habit, and are less than fully invested in their students' learning.

So, question #2: If a workshop is what you are after, how do you pick good workshop teachers/operators?

That's a tougher question than it seems. If you know people who took workshops that they thought were great (and the object and approach of those workshops aligns with your expectations), their personal reports may well be the most useful thing. If someone says, "I recommend workshop X," don't stop there. Ask them what happened at the workshop, what it was that made them like it, and what was the least satisfying aspect of the workshop. The answers will help you figure out whether or not that is for you.

Another issue is that there's a rather loose relationship between the costs of the workshops and their quality. I have photographer friends who teach very expensive workshops that sell out months (and sometimes years) in advance. I'm utterly certain of the quality of what they do. (We'll leave aside for the moment the question of the alignment — or not — of their workshops with what you are looking for.)

From the previous paragraph you might be tempted to extrapolate and think that a workshop will be good if it is offered by "name" photographers, it is expensive, and it always sells out. Unfortunately, that isn't necessarily a guarantee of quality either, since there are some "names" that manage to capitalize on their renown yet offer workshops that have issues. (If you think I'm going to name any such people in a public forum... nope, not going to happen. This is why you need to poke around. A lot.)

(I'll name good folks in the right context, but I'm going avoid going there here, for a variety of reasons.)

Question #3: If you have decided you want a workshop and you have identified some that are reputable, which one should you sign up for?

Here it comes down to (price and travel aside) a question of what you are looking for. One kind of workshop can be appropriate if you are looking for high quality and useful critical feedback on the photographs you make. Another sort is appropriate if you are looking for an introduction to photographing a particular subject or place. Yet another could be good if you are looking for general knowledge about how to use a camera or about printing, etc.. And in some cases you might be most interested in the specific photographer who is teaching the workshop.

If all of this sounds way too complicated, I get it.

If a workshop or class is what you are after and you have a hard time figuring all of this out — and most will have a hard time! — it may be better to start elsewhere. Some of the suggestions in this thread about local photography groups and clubs can be pretty useful. For one thing, the groups may offer some training themselves that could be useful. But perhaps even more useful is becoming part of a community of folks interested in photography, who share and discuss these things... even including their real-world experience with... workshops.

Community colleges often have photography departments and offer classes that you can sign up for. Yes, the quality (and the focus) varies considerably, but this is an option and some of them are excellent staring points.

Good luck, and sorry that there isn't one right, easy answer.

Dan

Edited on May 31, 2022 at 01:01 PM · View previous versions



May 31, 2022 at 10:11 AM
tsinsf
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p.2 #4 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


Dan's remarks are spot on. I would like to add one other comment. My first workshop, twenty years ago was with David Muench, a well known photographer and father of the "put a narly piece of wood in the foreground" technique that is so popular now. I was one of the least advanced photographers in the group and I must say I learned more from the other photographers than I did from the teacher. He was wonderful and kind, but I had much more contact with the other photographers than him. So yes, the teacher is important, but for a beginner, equally important are the other photographers. If you go on a workshop, try not to be shy and ask them any questions you might have. Even if the teacher is a dud, you probably can learn something. By the way, the most important thing I learned from him was that you have to keep going back to the same location over and over again until you get good light. He kept taking us to the same location because we had lousy light the first couple of times. This drove most of the other students crazy. The wanted him to take us to new locations.


May 31, 2022 at 11:20 AM
elkhornsun
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p.2 #5 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


Workshops vary greatly and some have a 6-8 participants and others can have 20 or more and a few are one on one with the instructor. Ed MacKerrow for example limits his workshops to 4 partcipants so one would get a lot more one on one time. Often a name photographer will have a workshop and take a couple of assistants and these individuals do the oone on multiple so not a great choice.

https://inlightofnature.com/workshops/

It is also not expensive to go to an area where the photographer lives and have a 1/2 day or 1-2 days time with them. Going to a location for a day with them and then having the following 2-3 days to go back and use what you learned can be a good way to accelerate your learning.

Be aware that the more people there are in a workshop the more issues with photographing subjects and the more people in the vans the greater the chance that someone who is sick will decide to go anyway as they do not want to lose what they paid for the workshop. Even with 3-8 person tours on my last 3 there was a sick person who came anyway and I lost more than a day myself when I got their infection.

I have been able to locate photographers in an area by web searches for their websites and then contact them and ask about their day rates. One gets a guide and a vehicle and local knowledge at a much lower cost than you would expect. Workshops and tours are profit making ventures and so you can pay a great deal more for a good deal less.



May 31, 2022 at 12:18 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #6 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


tsinsf wrote:
Dan's remarks are spot on. I would like to add one other comment. My first workshop, twenty years ago was with David Muench, a well known photographer and father of the "put a narly piece of wood in the foreground" technique that is so popular now. I was one of the least advanced photographers in the group and I must say I learned more from the other photographers than I did from the teacher. He was wonderful and kind, but I had much more contact with the other photographers than him. So yes, the teacher is important, but for a
...Show more

There's a really useful bit of implied advice in your post: Surround yourself with good photographers and good photography if you want to get better, and be open and pay attention.

I am friends with a folks whose names some of you would recognize* I photograph with them, too, on a somewhat regular basis, and we correspond in other venues. Your point about the folks who tend to be part of their circles is right on — it is a whole little positive community for people who share a similar focus and who often have a lot to say about related stuff.

If anyone ever has an opportunity to become part of one or more of these commutes, take it. (Be sensitive though — not everyone wants that.)

Dan












* Cue someone's inevitable wise-ass comment about "Dan's imaginary friends," or about how I'm just "name-dropping without name dropping." Whatever. Should those comments appear in this thread, consider that they exemplify precisely the reasons I don't name and inadvertently bring friends into the personal forum fights that too often erupt. Trust me, they don't want to be part of that at all. Besides, if you know me and my photography story, it isn't that hard to figure out who is in my circle.



May 31, 2022 at 12:51 PM
Rajan Parrikar
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p.2 #7 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


I am friends with a folks whose names some of you would recognize* I photograph with them, too, on a somewhat regular basis, and we correspond in other venues.

Please clap.

* I'm also friends with Satoshi Nakamoto. Please give me another Like and make this thread all about me.



May 31, 2022 at 01:12 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #8 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


gdanmitchell wrote:
Cue someone's inevitable wise-ass comment...


And then, right on cue...
Rajan Parrikar wrote:
Please clap.

* I'm also friends with Satoshi Nakamoto. Please give me another Like and make this thread all about me.


Dear Forum Mom:

Someday you'll really have to explain to all of us why you have this strange and troubling obsession with me and my posts. Something clearly sets you off in a way that seems to border on the pathological.

As far as I know, I don't know you, and I don't believe I've ever crossed paths with you.

From all I can see, you are not a stupid person. You seem pretty rational in other posts of yours that don't involve me. What the heck is it that sets you off?

Lord knows I've tried to figure out how to put a stop to this. I have tried humor. I tried asking you what it was that apparently set you off some years ago. I've tried ignoring you. I once sent you a polite PM trying to ask for a truce. I've appealed to the moderators, who have deleted quite a few of your worst posts. I've tried getting mad at you, too.

What, precisely, is your end goal here? What do you hope to accomplish with this crap? After all this time, do you imagine that I'm going away as a result of your incessant insults? Do you imagine that I'm going to change in some way that will meet the Rajan Forum Posting Standard? If I did, would that even stop you?

What the hell is your problem? If the anger management issue is just about me, just stop. The FM "hide me" link is your friend.

If this extends into other areas of your life, you have my sympathy, but you should seek help. This cannot be good for you either.

Dan

Edited on May 31, 2022 at 05:22 PM · View previous versions



May 31, 2022 at 04:18 PM
chez
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p.2 #9 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


gdanmitchell wrote:
And then, right on cue...

Dear Forum Mom:

Someday you'll really have to explain to all of us why you have this strange and troubling obsession with me and my posts. Something clearly sets you off in a way that seems to border on the pathological.

As far as I know, I don't know you, and I don't believe I've ever crossed paths with you.

From all I can see, you are not a stupid person. You seem pretty rational in other posts of yours that don't involve me. What the heck is it that sets you off?

Lord knows I've tried to
...Show more

"The FM "hide me" link is your friend."

I suggest you just take your own advice



May 31, 2022 at 05:00 PM
vbnut
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p.2 #10 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


Melor wrote:
I see there is a third edition and will get it in the mail tomorrow. Hope it has the spirit of the first one


Please give us a book report (i.e let us know what you think) of the third edition.



May 31, 2022 at 09:00 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #11 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


vbnut wrote:
Please give us a book report (i.e let us know what you think) of the third edition.


I don't know that book myself, but I agree with the framing — that learning to "see" photographically is the biggest thing. Learning some level of technical stuff is important, as is doing a ton of photography to the point that you internalize the knowledge and resulting practices, too.

But the "seeing" part is what differentiates photographers, I think. On one hand, it is the hardest thing to write and teach about. On the other hand, progress in this realm is very rewarding.

Dan



Jun 02, 2022 at 11:36 AM
vbnut
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p.2 #12 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


gdanmitchell wrote:
But the "seeing" part is what differentiates photographers, I think. On one hand, it is the hardest thing to write and teach about. On the other hand, progress in this realm is very rewarding.

Dan


I agree, but I think that "vision" is one of the things I struggle the most with in my photography.

Years ago a computer user-interface designer colleague that like me, was a hobbyist photographer, recommended the book "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" by Betty Edwards to help learn/understand how to see a scene. Its a book about drawing, but in some ways its just as much about seeing. I checked it out from the local public library, and started reading it (and trying to do the drawing exercises), but I had to return it to the library long before I finished it. At the time I was too busy to continue, but I have more time now so maybe I'll try it again.



Jun 02, 2022 at 12:38 PM
BidinTime
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p.2 #13 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


I think your wife is trying to get you out of the house. Where I'm from a "hall pass" has a very specific meaning.

I would not suggest spending any amount of money on something without you clearly identifying your objectives. There's been some good advice here.



Jun 02, 2022 at 02:07 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #14 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


gdanmitchell wrote:
But the "seeing" part is what differentiates photographers, I think. On one hand, it is the hardest thing to write and teach about. On the other hand, progress in this realm is very rewarding.

Dan


vbnut replied:
I agree, but I think that "vision" is one of the things I struggle the most with in my photography.

Years ago a computer user-interface designer colleague that like me, was a hobbyist photographer, recommended the book "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" by Betty Edwards to help learn/understand how to see a scene. Its a book about drawing, but in some ways its just as much about seeing. I checked it out from the local public library, and started reading it (and trying to do the drawing exercises), but I had to return it to the library long
...Show more

I hear you. Most people who try to "get into" an art struggle far more with this part that with the technical stuff. The technical challenges of succumb sufficiently to study and practice, but the aesthetic part can be a harder nut to crack, especially for folks coming at this from a technology-centric background. It seems mysterious and not subject to sort of objective procedures and rules that work in other realms that are not primarily about aesthetics.

(I acknowledge that not all legitimate photography has that primary focus. Photography can also be a different sort of pursuit.)

It frustrates some people even more when they notice people with far fewer apparent technical chops or even less advanced equipment who produce effective and moving art.

I never read the "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" book, perhaps because I was already beginning a career in the arts back when I first heard of it. But the concept, using the right/left brain metaphor for the affective/logical modes of thinking and creativity is useful.

A lot of what "creatives" do is not based primarily on logical, linear thinking. (To be sure, there's an element of that in art, but it is in the "necessary but not sufficient" category.) A whole lot of it, especially in the moments of creation, is about acting on well-developed intuitions. The "well developed" part of that is really important. And repetition. Obsessive repetition. A lot of obsessive repetition.

There's so much more that could be said on this subject... that I'm not going to try. (Some folks can thank be later. ;-) )

But it does sound like this might give a bit more focus to your search for the right learning mode or experience. I get the impression that you are not so much interested in "how to operate your camera" as you are in "how to see photographically."

You do have to be careful about workshops and similar that profess to teach "vision." But at the same time, there are workshops and classes (and alternatives to those) that can help you focus and clarify your "seeing." They typically involve some of the following:

1. Investigation of exemplary work.

2. Personal creation of some category of work.

3. Critique of the work.

4. Creation of more work following critique, applying what was learned from critique.

Lather, rinse, repeat. For years, really. ;-)

The "critique" part is often problematic. Too many think "critique" means "calling out what is wrong." Some end up focusing on telling aspiring photographers where they have failed. Period. That is tremendously harmful to most learners, and in some cases it even becomes abusive.

The concept of good critique is: Here's what I see that works well. Here's what I see that might be done differently, and here are some options and reasons. Take what worked, apply what you learned, do more work, and make it even better.

Finding a teacher, mentor, workshop leader who has skills to provide insightful and useful criticism is important. I'm afraid that this is also about the hardest thing to determine from "10 Best Workshops" articles and similar. It is often pretty useful to start to become part of a real-world photography community of some sort — the kind that forms around some photography clubs, some community college or even community photography programs, certain individual photographers and so forth. You'll learn a lot that way — about photography itself and about the opportunities for learning and for photography.'

And, yes, online communities like FM serve a useful function, too, though I think that it augments more than replaces the real world communities. (There were a few concrete workshop recommendation in this thread, for example.)

Good luck,

Dan



Jun 02, 2022 at 03:09 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #15 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


A brief (I promise) follow-up: I just saw an interesting article by Jack Graham at the NANPA website. It is about being a professional "nature" photographer, but there's a good section near the beginning about workshops. It is geared to those who might think of teaching them, but I think it us useful information for those considering taking workshops, too.

Dan



Jun 02, 2022 at 04:51 PM
Charlie San
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p.2 #16 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


I like, but have seldom used, the Santa Fe Photo Workshops. I regularly get their newsletters and you can probably sign up for them too at sfworkshops.com (I have no connection to them). The newsletters contain descriptions of their coming courses, examples of their instructor/presenter works and links to their websites. Perhaps weird, but I always get ideas from them even though I hardly use them. I have done online courses through them, and their campus is in Santa Fe, NM, my favorite city in the States. They have many great photographers as instructors too.


Jun 03, 2022 at 01:47 PM
ross attix
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p.2 #17 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


I live on the east coast, US, so the workshops I’ve done have been here. For your location I have no recommendations.

But I want to counter some of the negative answers you have received. For context, I have been doing photography for 50+ years. I went to ArtCenter College of Design. Worked as a commercial advertising photographer for about 15 years before changing careers.

The reason I say that is I have not needed anyone to teach me any skills. I have that base covered, but it is the rare creative person who can say they never feel unchallenged/uninspired. Workshops are super helpful with that, whether it is trying certain types of photography that you have not done, or maybe just having someone say, “Have you tried looking at it this way?”

Are workshops expensive? Yes. Are they worth it? I have done several over the years, and I always come away feeling rejuvenated. Only you can decide if the expense is worth it.



Jun 03, 2022 at 02:06 PM
Jglaser757
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p.2 #18 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


Just came back to site to sell some equipment and stumbled upon this thread...I took tons of workshops in the beginning. At a local school and then landscape photo workshops. For a newbie, i would recommend Rocky Mountain Reflections. Andy is patient and will get you up to speed in the field. He will help as much as you want or as little as you want. Expensive to some, but worth it...HE will spend time in post with help in processing images during breaks...like I said earlier, Very Very patient and goes to great places...He limits the group to ten and have to book in advance. PM me if you have any other questions... There are a few more workshops I can recommend but they are for more advanced shooters.


Jul 13, 2022 at 04:29 PM
runamuck
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p.2 #19 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


Local extension colleges used to offer non credit photography courses. It was in one such course I learned to love night photography. Now they seem to have suffered the same fate as the Dodo bird.


Jul 13, 2022 at 06:51 PM
runamuck
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p.2 #20 · Best photography workshop for first timer?


Google "camera club" in your zip code. Thy are always very knowledgeable and willing to share their expertise. I really developed (I tried to resist this one) my skills when I joined a local camera club.


Jul 13, 2022 at 07:08 PM
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