flash wrote:
I kind of got the point he was trying to make. But yes, with more time i think he'd get up to a completely usable speed. Certainly as usable as an M and close in manual focus use and zone focusing. Maybe he's the type that relies on the Sony AF speed.
Could be worse. The photos were nice. It could have been the new one from Matt Granger who has conclusively proved the X2D can take bad photographs. A Nikon 200m f2 on the X2D review? Maybe others will like it. I found it painful to watch.
Gordon
I'm more appalled by the fact that in his latest video comparing the X2D to the Fuji, he didn't even touch upon the most important aspect after all of a camera: the file output!!! the Hassy output blows the Fuji out of the water in his test shots and files. It's not even close.
the file output looks pretty close to me, it would take like 10 seconds to color match. but x2d is so aesthetic it's worth the premium, curious how good the clutch mf feels
Can't wait for this to hit the rental market. I definitely want to take one up with me to Yosemite. I would rent one for my White Sands trip but that's a little too dangerous, lol.
ftllens wrote:
the file output looks pretty close to me, it would take like 10 seconds to color match. but x2d is so aesthetic it's worth the premium, curious how good the clutch mf feels
It feels exactly the same as it does on the Olympus lenses that do the same thing. Really good.
I mostly agree on the output. There's nothing wrong with my GFX100S files at all. The lenses are great. Maybe a smidge more CA than some of the XCD lenses and a but less *bite*. Different, not worse, I'd say. The HB files are more *open* out of camera compared to the GFX. A simple curve goes a long way to improving the GFX files, I think. Generally though I do prefer the files from the HB. Sharpness is a wash. I prefer the HB 80 to the Fuji but there's nothing like the 110 f2 in the Hasselblad line up. The HB zoom is better than any of the Fujis but there's only one versus a choice of five for the GFX. ANy adapted lens is going to work better on the GFX.
I have found the X1D files quite hard to colour match with the Fuji. I've shot them side by side and still not got them the same in post. There's something special about the colour science of the Hasselblad. My X2D has it as well. It could be that the X1D and X2D load a huge amount of calibration data at startup. Each sensor is hardware calibrated individually and lens data is loaded in camera. The X2D also may have a slightly different colour filter array, according to a thread on DP Review, on the same silicon. Whatever it is. The X2D has it in spades. That's not saying the GFX files aren't great. they are. I think any differences between the files are subjective and not objective.
ftllens wrote:
the file output looks pretty close to me, it would take like 10 seconds to color match. but x2d is so aesthetic it's worth the premium, curious how good the clutch mf feels
I beg to differ, I tried to color match my Sony files to Leica MP240, certain scenes are great but once you start to go independent by creating a profile, it'll not respond the same under all lighting. I used only my a7c for 2 weeks and I thought I was doing pretty great until picking up the MP240 again was a painful reality check.
X2D has great color, not as sterile as the Fuji (had the 50R and my eyes got tired very quickly). But these medium format sensors seems to have what I call "pristine" color rendering, prefer a slightly "dirty" (for lack of better word) from the Leica. In fact, the M11 seems to be going that "pristine" direction.
It's very curious how we can feel and judge colours getting out of the cameras. There was a real jump, to me, when I came from the Leica M240 up to the X1D II. I had a lot of job to be done with my M240, mostly on colours, curves, etc... with unsatisfactory results, and I have almost nothing to correct or adjust with the files I get from the X1D. When going back to my M240 files, they look rather flat to me.
tenmangu81 wrote:
It's very curious how we can feel and judge colours getting out of the cameras. There was a real jump, to me, when I came from the Leica M240 up to the X1D II. I had a lot of job to be done with my M240, mostly on colours, curves, etc... with unsatisfactory results, and I have almost nothing to correct or adjust with the files I get from the X1D. When going back to my M240 files, they look rather flat to me.
I think you're right, I probably need to have an X2D in my hands to really able to judge.
I'm following a Leica/Hassy dealer in China on Chinese social media, they are sharing street photos shot on X2D and 38mm, it has similar vibe (but different character) to the Leica's but a lot smoother. Not sure if anyone is interested to see them (in small resolution). Funny that I was reading M11 review, upon closer look and in comparison, it looks like hassy really has a lot smoother and richer tonality. But the Leica always has this "crunch" that's desirable to me.
Interesting to note too that this very dealer remarked the X2D a true beginner camera as the SOOC is just so good and doesn't need any editing.
I am surprised they didn't release it with aspect ratios.. you'd got to think that's one of the easiest things to implement. I guess you have to stop somewhere to ship, but that's a surprising one to leave out.
BrandonSi wrote:
I am surprised they didn't release it with aspect ratios.. you'd got to think that's one of the easiest things to implement. I guess you have to stop somewhere to ship, but that's a surprising one to leave out.
Agreed. The firmware, while stable is definitely missing a bunch of basic functions. The original X1D was the same but I expected better with the X2D.
So far:
- No CAF
- No aspect ratios.
- No multizone metering. Camera currently offers centre weighted and 2x spot options. Same as X1D.
- No live histogram. Wasn't on X1D but should have been.
- no option for 1/2 or 1/4 f for auto ISO. Weird with the addition of the IBIS.
- No EVF only option for live view.
- Only two options for AF point size. vs 3 in the X1D.
- No focus peaking. Although I don't miss it pesonally.
- No white balance tool.
So plenty to add/update. Also why Custom modes aren't part of the mode settings but in their own menu is just wrong.
My favourite camera ever, but far far from a finished product.
I'm surprised they didn't introduce Multi-Shot with the camera, since they pioneered the tech in MF digital. It seems like that's something to be expected out of future enhancements.
flash wrote:
Agreed. The firmware, while stable is definitely missing a bunch of basic functions. The original X1D was the same but I expected better with the X2D.
So far:
- No CAF
- No aspect ratios.
- No multizone metering. Camera currently offers centre weighted and 2x spot options. Same as X1D.
- No live histogram. Wasn't on X1D but should have been.
- no option for 1/2 or 1/4 f for auto ISO. Weird with the addition of the IBIS.
- No EVF only option for live view.
- Only two options for AF point size. vs 3 in the X1D.
- No focus peaking. Although I don't miss it personally.
- No white balance tool.
So plenty to add/update. Also why Custom modes aren't part of the mode settings but in their own menu is just wrong.
My favourite camera ever, but far far from a finished product....Show more →
Well Gordon I hope you are right. I have had mine for a couple of weeks now and it works great (far better than the X1D-ii). I am using it with my existing XCD lenses while I wait for the new XCD V lenses to arrive. I should have all 3 by the end of the month.
I have primarily shot using AF, but recently was put on to shooting in MF mode using the AF-D button to find focus and then recomposing like back-button focus.
I am in regular communications with customersupport @hasselblad.com and have an open but short list of firmware improvements I need urgently and a growing list of feature improvements that I would like to see if Hasselblad can deliver them with the technology in the new body. See my Blog
In order --
a) we need the promised update to Phocus Mobile that allows the X2D to be controlled/triggered remotely
b) we need the promised firmware update to the X2D that allows Live view to be seen in Phocus 3.7 AND for the automated functions in the capture sequencer to work with the X2D
c) we need the ability to pull or jam GPS data from a smart device or accessory into the X2D so location data can be written into the exif data
Other features requested:
a) in body auto and manual focus stacking/sequencing/bracketing
b) provide the option for additional VERY SMALL & pin point af/mf points (the new focus aid seems to use a far too large focus point group - the size of this group should be selectable)
c) provide the option to choose between focus peaking (really useful for landscape and product shooters) and the MF focus assist tool
d) AF-C -- one commentator stated he thought this would only work when sing the new XCD V lenses -- which is a surprise to me
e) 3D AF tracking -- lock on to a subject and then track the subject as the camera or subject moves -- we had this in DSLRs
f) eye/face identification and tracking -- since Hasselblad has not used this before they will either need to buy the capability and adapt it or build their own and we can expect this will take time to deliver
g) ability to save Lossless RAW compressed files
h) ability to use a trigger connected via bluetooth (so not just a smart device).
i) ability to select various aspect/crop ratios and image sizes
j) far better custom mode solution than the custom profiles -- minimum would be the ability to edit the name of each -- who knows what is in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6.
k) live histogram - RAW histogram not just jpeg AND better exposure/clip warnings
l) far more metering choices including TTL zone metering, multi-zone, average and AND, since I happen to like Nikon's Highlight protection version of matrix metering - it prevents white clipping (excluding specular highlights) - it should be possible to enable this too for ALL metering choices.
m) wider range of exposure and flash compensation options +/- 5EV
n) ability to import/load/edit/save/export shooting profiles/presets based on Phocus settings and other emulations/LCC profiles
o) ability to record, save and apply custom white balance
p) ability to disable switching from LV to the EVF (to enable use of the camera in restricted spaces -- although I cannot see why since you can turn down the distance when EVF takes over - however why not)
q) hi-res / pixel shifting multi-shot option
r) 2 shot averaging - like dual exposure+ on the IQ4
s) a long exposure shot averaging - like automatic frame averaging on the IQ4
t) EV steps 1/1, 1/2, 1/3
u) timelapse
v) ability to manually enter EXIF data for adapted lenses.
Of course we wait to see what if any of these the essential for X2D users update to Phocus Mobile will bring -- in my case to the iPhone and iPadPro.
Does Thomas Heaton really not know that Fujifilm has THREE cameras with IBIS ? The GFX 100, GFX 100S and GFX 50S II all already offer IBIS.
Two offer 100 Megapixels and one offers 50 Megapixels. Some people really love the output of the old 50 Megapixel sensor.
I mean spend your money however you want, but I dont think IBIS flies well as an argument for the X2D, unless you are somehow already married to the system, then you're probably thrilled to get the same features as Fujifilm.
One may argue but its 7 stops and okay, thats nice. I dont know by heart anymore how many stops Fujifilm claims for their cameras. Still, they should offer 5+ steps as well, I would guess ? So its at best a gradual improvement.
One may argue but its 7 stops and okay, thats nice. I dont know by heart anymore how many stops Fujifilm claims for their cameras. Still, they should offer 5+ steps as well, I would guess ? So its at best a gradual improvement.
If taken at face value( not that we should, but still), a two stop improvement in ibis is going to be quite significant for a lot of people, gradual or not. There were people trading in M10 bodies for an M11 because the baseplate was different, emoting as if this was a big deal. 7 stops vs. 5 stops of ibis is fairly noteworthy in the context of how photographers think, as it’s definitely a better gadget. And, Heaton’s photos were streets ahead of anything ever seen in a DPR review, so there’s that.
Heaton is aware of GFX, owning a 50R and a couple of GF zoom lenses as his primary landscape kit*. I’d be surprised if he doesn't realize newer models have IBIS.
As a former GFX100 owner myself, I found the IBIS underperformed Fuji’s claims by about 2 stops (5 stops claimed from what I remember, lucky to get 3 stops with really solid shot discipline). Seems like Heaton was getting about 5 stops on the X2D holding the camera with poor technique, which is indeed very notable for MF. The X2D and new lenses are looking like a great landscape system. And videos like Heaton’s are rather instructive.
*p.s. Heaton was considering ditching his GFX and moving to Nikon Z a couple months ago. Not sure if he followed through with that though.
Sauseschritt wrote:
Okay, what the heck ?
Does Thomas Heaton really not know that Fujifilm has THREE cameras with IBIS ? The GFX 100, GFX 100S and GFX 50S II all already offer IBIS.
Two offer 100 Megapixels and one offers 50 Megapixels. Some people really love the output of the old 50 Megapixel sensor.
I mean spend your money however you want, but I dont think IBIS flies well as an argument for the X2D, unless you are somehow already married to the system, then you're probably thrilled to get the same features as Fujifilm.
One may argue but its 7 stops and okay, thats nice. I dont know by heart anymore how many stops Fujifilm claims for their cameras. Still, they should offer 5+ steps as well, I would guess ? So its at best a gradual improvement. ...Show more →
Does Thomas Heaton really not know that Fujifilm has THREE cameras with IBIS ? The GFX 100, GFX 100S and GFX 50S II all already offer IBIS.
Two offer 100 Megapixels and one offers 50 Megapixels. Some people really love the output of the old 50 Megapixel sensor.
I mean spend your money however you want, but I dont think IBIS flies well as an argument for the X2D, unless you are somehow already married to the system, then you're probably thrilled to get the same features as Fujifilm.
One may argue but its 7 stops and okay, thats nice. I dont know by heart anymore how many stops Fujifilm claims for their cameras. Still, they should offer 5+ steps as well, I would guess ? So its at best a gradual improvement. ...Show more →
I liked Mr Heaton's *review*. It broadly fell in line with how I'm experiencing the X2D and new lenses. I do agree that not even mentioning the GFX cameras already had IBIS was a big miss though.
In my early testing I do think the IBIS in the X2D is better than the GFX100S I own. Shooting both cameras at f2.8 with their 80's (I have both) I was getting about 2 stops better with the 'blad. Now some of that will be the improved handling of the HB. Some of it will be the leaf shutters. Some the IBIS. But better it is. And quite a bit better. Early days but i think better than my A7R3 or A9. Close to my SL2/S1R. Not at Olympus levels. Bought my girl an OM-1 for her birthday. Holy guacamole! That thing has IBIS that's almost black magic level. Ths X2D is good enough that down to about a 10th of a second I might not even bother with a tripod. I'm going to experiment just taking a monopod and seeing if with IBIS I can get to a second or so. If it ever stops raining. With 86 days to go in 2022 we've set new rainfall records. Getting another 90mm today.
Mind you they then try and fuck it up by not offering a decent selection of auto ISO settings. The minimum is 1/f or a minimum shutter speed. I'd like to see 1/2 f or 1/4 f as an option. I shoot 1/4 f almost reliably on the X2D and get 1/8 f with reasonable success. And let's be frank. We have about half the firmware we need. No remote trigger? Really? No crop modes etc.
I have yet to see a review that gets it right, yet. Kind of have to add them all together. Granger, I think likes it but has an osession with 24x36mm camera AF performance. Dp review didn't have Chis and had woeful weather so a limited experience. Jordan did most of the review inside. The *expert* wasn't with mirrorless. We can mostly ignore the ambassadors. They really can't criticise the system. Then there's the one's that haven't seen the camera and have an opinion.... I'd like to see what Thomas Heaton thinks after a month of using the camera. It'd be in HB's intersts for him to have a month long loaner. I see him as one of the markets for the system and he's relatively independant. Maybe someone like Gajan Balan but he's probably too tight with Fujifilm. Nick Page? Mostly the rest should stay in their lane. Give them some more regular Sony's, Nikons and Canon's to drool over. Then they can go on about the fully articulating screens and why you need an A1 to photograph your mutt at the park.....
The X2D is a different camera probably, with a few exceptions, mainly bought by folk with different agenda and budgets to those who go for the GFX and certainly different to those who get to use the XF/XT and IQ4.
I find the "having to make" comparisons between different brands of camera has become tedious and frankly pointless.
All that happens is that fans/owners of one brand are going to get irked if the YouTuber makes a remark they do not like.
So it is far better to just report on what one finds and not draw comparisons -- The exception is if the YouTuber has conducted a systematic comparison test and is reporting on the results. Then these vids can be useful -- but never useful to anyone who has invest heavily in System "A" (particularly the glass) and then any decision is far more complex than a reviewer who has had a body for a few hours could assess.
I hate to do this but here we go -- take Matt G's recent "comparison" vid of the X2D and GFX 100s. He shared a bunch of RAW files from each camera and when we looked at them we discovered the shooting settings were vastly different for every set up - massively different ISO/Aperture/Shutter speeds - the night shoot of HK were vastly different. Vast differences in white balance AND since one body was shot with an XCD V 55mm f/2.5 and the other a GF-63mm f/2.8 R WR as a result the portraits and street shots were also very different.
NONE of us had the development profiles Matt used and we all came up with very different looks to each other and his.
So-- while I prefer hands on comparisons - the comparison shots need to be made using EXACTLY the same shooting settings, lighting and field of view -- fairly obviously the portrait shots with the 55 should have been closer than those taken with the 63. Sorry Matt but yours were not.
Since the 3FR files have to be imported and "developed" in Phocus (3.7), which I use on a daily basis, and I chose to try to develop the GFX files in FujiFilm's own RAW developer I struggled to get useable images using this tool from the GFX. I ended up using Pure Raw 2 for the Fuji RAW files and they came out great. Others went straight into LR - my version does not open 3FR (I have not worked out where to put the plug in and since I use Phocus, well I could not be bothered)
So what do we know -- X2D and GFX100/100s share the same sensor -- it might be exactly the same -- but that is where the similarities END -- they each have different technology and software and each are tuned to the manufacturer's preference.
The X2D is out now and while it works OK (frankly better than OK) it has a way to go to become the tool folk like me want. While there are many similarities to the X1D (launch in 2016, but greatly improved in 2019) the AF in particular was more akin to the H6D than any modern mirrorless system. This is an area that the X2D has begun to address (and the X2D is much better than its predecessors) but there is still a way to go - AND we owners all hope for firmware updates that deliver the simple improvements soon. Eye/Tracking will not be simple for a new entrant to this capability. I am waiting for the 3 new design lenses to arrive (should be with me this month) to see the real effect of the better AF.
The GFX range has been out since 2017 and builds on the legacy of the X-series (launched in 2011). Now the GFX100s is much more like a modern Mirrorless camera than it is a traditional pro digital mirrorless. YES it has great features particularly the AF, but like all such cameras it is not perfect. Folk who have bought it have learnet to work around its idiosyncrasies.
AND folk who now own the X2D will do the same. Currently -- for example - if you want to shot with Back-button AF - you switch the camera into Manual Focusing mode and depress the AF-D button on the back of the camera -- who knew -- well X1D shooter did 'cause this is how Hasselblad did this.
The X2D replaced focus peaking with a new focus assist tool -- YES it is DIFFERENT and YES the focus group seems larger than ideal if shooting pictures of a kid wearing a baseball hat - the example was shots of a kit and the brim of the hat was in focus -- why the user did not focus a little further down... who knows -- but this is what one would learn to do. Why we hope Hasselblad come out with options for smaller AF "groups"/points/zones AND the option to switch back to focus peaking.
YES -- the X2D does not currently have some options we liked in the X1D-ii -- aspect ratios/crop modes for RAW shots -- we had lots of choices AND have asked for them all back: No Crop (645); 1:1 (6x6); 7:6 (6x7); 5:4 (4x5); 11:8,5 (Letter); 297:210 (A4); 3:2 (6x9); 3:2 Crop (24x36); 16:9 (Screen); 2:1 (6x12); 65:24 (XPan)
BUT -- the image from the whole sensor was recorder and the crop mode could be applied or ignored in Phocus.
We also lost GPS - but we do not know whether GPS data will be pulled via Phocus Mobile or an external GPS unit (like for the X1D) will be provided later.
AND we had 3 AF point sizes and desperately need both a smaller AF point AND a "pinpoint" option added SOON
AND YES - please enable the tethered live view and automated controls and in camera focus bracketing like the X1D-ii.
Many "requests" seem to be for "stuff" Hasselblad have never offered but seem to be available in the GFX 100s -- like live view RAW histogram (RGB or Luminance) and YES Continuous AF and Tracking. I very much hope that Hasselblad is able to deliver these too.
I do not WANT Video anywhere near the X2D -- this is not what this camera is for, but then even Leica added it to the SL2 and SL2-S full frame mirrorless camera systems. So who knows what H will do.
Sensor stabilization work wonderfully especially for the shakes combined with the leaf shutter.
Autofocus, still do not have the accuracy of currently avaible full frame mirrorless, sincerely there is a lot work to do.
My opinion, 2.5/38 is one of the best medium wide angle lenses i saw, it has a very amazing rendering.
Maknof wrote:
Sensor stabilization work wonderfully especially for the shakes combined with the leaf shutter.
Autofocus, still do not have the accuracy of currently available full frame mirrorless, sincerely there is a lot work to do.
My opinion, 2.5/38 is one of the best medium wide angle lenses i saw, it has a very amazing rendering.
The AF is currently AF-S not AF-C and as a result one needs to take care.
Thanks for sharing the RAW images. The shot of the restored clock mechanism (inside) proves at ISO 1600 and 1/50th a stable shot in the dark is very useable (particularly if one runs it through Topaz De Noise with very fine settings).
AND of course the rooftop image at ISO 100 is very "pretty". But then so is the region -- Was this taken in Montecchio, Umbria?
Some folk have been shooting handheld at much slower shutter speeds to try out the IBIS with lower ISO settings, with good results -- did you also try this?
The AF is currently AF-S not AF-C and as a result one needs to take care.
Thanks for sharing the RAW images. The shot of the restored clock mechanism (inside) proves at ISO 1600 and 1/50th a stable shot in the dark is very useable (particularly if one runs it through Topaz De Noise with very fine settings).
AND of course the rooftop image at ISO 100 is very "pretty". But then so is the region -- Was this taken in Montecchio, Umbria?
Some folk have been shooting handheld at much slower shutter speeds to try out the IBIS with lower ISO settings, with good results -- did you also try this? ...Show more →
I knew AF is single point, but compared with other full frame MILC, it miss the point more often, and sometimes the motor still search the point.
It was Montecchio Emilia 44.7008785,10.4454211, if a tourist come here, it is a nice place, not big place but only 2 bucks for the ticket and the guide is free
There is even a nice photo shop, the one that that own the 13 nearly grand (tax included) of this stuff i used, as demo.
As you can see in restored mechanism, focus was a little back (center spot)
About slow exposure times i am uploading 3 more shots in same folder, 1/10th iso 100 and 1/20th iso 6400 and 1600 it will take at least 60 minutes cause here there is no fiber and trees cover OTA waves.
A Nikon 200m f2 on the X2D review? Maybe others will like it. I found it painful to watch.