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Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

CheshireCat
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

Fred Miranda wrote:
It's very evident on this one:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/moaan/33909963872/

I think the rendering unevenness is even stronger compared to the CV 50/1 Nokton's. Optical vignetting is also very high and it looks like FC has similar shape.

Uhm, I’ve never seen anything that bad from the Noctilux f/1.0.
There might be something wrong with that particular lens/camera combo.

Feb 05, 2022 at 10:25 AM

CheshireCat
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

Fred Miranda wrote:
Here is the field curvature shape between Leica 50/1.4 Lux, Voigtlander 50/1 Nokton and Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton.

I think this shows the Nokton 50/1 might have a tilted element, as we cannot blame terrain unevenness anymore.

Feb 05, 2022 at 11:28 AM

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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

CheshireCat wrote:
I think this shows the Nokton 50/1 might have a tilted element, as we cannot blame terrain unevenness anymore.

I went through many copies of the Leica 50/1.4 Lux and CV 50/1.2 Nokton lenses to find 100% centered lenses at infinity distance.
In the case of the 50/1 Nokton with only one copy, although well-centered, its still not perfect at infinity where I run resolution tests. (As I mentioned on the other thread).

However, from the centering test, any tilt/swing is small and not enough to sway the infinity test results. I have disclosed this in the test:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1741370/0#15851124

Feb 05, 2022 at 11:37 AM

rscheffler
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

highdesertmesa wrote:
I really like these a lot. Reminds me of the CV 40 1.2 thread that started off with all the technical imperfections and ended up on a high of all the beautiful photos everyone was taking with it.

The price is what has me thinking twice, though. Almost $2K makes me think of putting that toward a vintage Leica f/1 Noct instead — or waiting to see if the f/1 Noct reissue that was pictured with the M11 promo materials ever materializes.

I wonder about that "new" 50/1 Nocti, whether it might be a limited release special edition? See the numbers on the front 271-285. Could be #271 of 285? Anyone with more Leica historical knowledge thing the numbers might mean something else?

Feb 05, 2022 at 11:55 AM

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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

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MFD performance and Focus Shift

The Voigtlander 50/1 Nokton is equipped with a floating system (FLE) and therefore performance at close distance (and MFD) is improved since spherical aberration (SA) is better controlled. Lenses without FLE do not perform optimally at close distance where SA decreases resolution and contrast. (Although many like this hazy effect in close-up shots)

Focus shift is not pronounced but still noticeable with the CV 50/1 Nokton. If you focus a subject wide open at close distance and stop the lens down to f/2.8 without refocusing, there will be a small penalty in performance.

The crops below taken at 0.9m demonstrate this:

F1 vs F1.4 (focused at F1)

F1.4 vs F2 (still focused at F1, so no refocusing)

F2 vs F2.8 (still focused at F1, so no refocusing)

F/2.8 (focused at F1) vs F2.8 (Re-Focused at F2.8)

Feb 05, 2022 at 12:16 PM

rscheffler
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

CheshireCat wrote:
Uhm, I’ve never seen anything that bad from the Noctilux f/1.0.
There might be something wrong with that particular lens/camera combo.

I wonder if he had a bad CLA done to the lens (i.e. reversed lens element), or has had it somehow tweaked for this effect? He's got something like 1000 images on Flickr tagged as the 50/1 Nocti and many show extreme swirl.

Nine years ago almost to the day, I had a meet-up with another FM member in Toronto and was able to shoot a bit with his immaculate Leica 50/1. Not sure which version, but IIRC it was coded and was probably the latest one. I just had a look through what I shot with it and the majority of images were very creamy looking with some glow. None had extreme swirl, but I also didn't shoot much subject matter that contained OOF specular highlights.

Below is the worst example of bokeh/rendering from that session with the Leica 50/1 (shot on an M9). You can clearly see the sharper background in the corners. This would also be a composition likely to get a similar response from the 50 Lux ASPH because there isn't much subject to background separation.

Feb 05, 2022 at 12:25 PM

LarsHP
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

This actually looks quite mild. It could be caused by optical vignetting only.

rscheffler wrote:
I wonder if he had a bad CLA done to the lens (i.e. reversed lens element), or has had it somehow tweaked for this effect? He's got something like 1000 images on Flickr tagged as the 50/1 Nocti and many show extreme swirl.

Nine years ago almost to the day, I had a meet-up with another FM member in Toronto and was able to shoot a bit with his immaculate Leica 50/1. Not sure which version, but IIRC it was coded and was probably the latest one. I just had a look through what I shot with it and the...Show more →

Feb 05, 2022 at 01:44 PM

nehemiahphoto
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

Fred Miranda wrote:
I will try to answer this one: They are lenses with different maximum apertures, so if one wants a f/0.95-1 lens, the CV 50/1.2 Nokton and Leica 50/1.4 Lux mentioned here are not really in this category. The latter is a full stop slower and that could be significant enough for someone shooting in very low light. One could argue that this is no longer an issue with modern sensors, but that's another discussion.

I own the 50/1.2 Nokton and that's why I compared it to the new f/1. However, it would be more appropriate for me to compare the...Show more →

Yes, I understand and agree. I said the same in a different way--it's good CV didn't reproduce the CV 50/1.2 a half stop faster--I don't think it's enough to get many to change. I don't like the direction they went, but then again, my bias is nearly always against very high contrast glass that favors optical correction at the expense of rendering. They have 2 lenses with distinct signatures. The half stop difference thing is a big deal for lenses--1.4 vs 1.8's is classic. Here's it's just a f1.2 to f1 (or f1.4 for the Lux).

And yes, even comparing the 50/1 Noct doesn't make a ton of sense--it came out in 1975. Similar to the comparison I just ran with the 75 Summilux vs 75 Nokton. That type of age disparity ensures the CV is going to be technically better and a smoother draw (it's not like CV are producing budget knock-offs). They are both uber fast 50's, so it's interesting, but I can't believe someone would study the photos to pick. The draws and feels of the images are very different. One will go with aesthetic preference (or budget).

So yes, the only real "fair" competition is the 50/.95 Noct to my mind, despite the very significant price difference. But also, none of the lenses are really about technical competence anyway. There aren't very practical lenses IMO despite how fun they are. So in a sense, I really don't fuss about technical testing with these type of extreme lenses. I am more interested in how the images look, and how impactful they are for me. I don't like the images as much from the new CV 50/1, but the 50/1.2 are more pleasing to me. Which just means, if anything, I saved money and a larger lens

Edited on Feb 05, 2022 at 03:45 PM · View previous versions

Feb 05, 2022 at 03:14 PM

CheshireCat
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

rscheffler wrote:
I wonder about that "new" 50/1 Nocti, whether it might be a limited release special edition? See the numbers on the front 271-285. Could be #271 of 285? Anyone with more Leica historical knowledge thing the numbers might mean something else

Looks like a rendered image to me.
Though a v5 "post-final-batch"-batch with proper hood would be great ;-)

Feb 05, 2022 at 03:29 PM

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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

nehemiahphoto wrote:
The half stop difference thing is a big deal for lenses--1.4 vs 1.8's is classic. Here's it's just a f1.2 to f1 (or f1.4 for the Lux).

That's a bigger difference than the numbers suggest. In the one-half-stop f/number scale, the difference from F1 to F1.2 is half stop but when going by the one-third-stop f/number scale, it's 2/3 stop difference. In reality it's somewhere in between and I find that considerable.

And yes, even comparing the 50/1 Noct doesn't make a ton of sense--it came out in 1975. Similar to the comparison I just ran with the 75 Summilux vs 75 Nokton. That type of age disparity ensures the CV is going to be technically better and a smoother draw (it's not like CV are producing budget knock-offs). They are both uber fast 50's, so it's interesting, but I can't believe someone would study the photos to pick. The draws and feels of the images are very different. One will go with aesthetic preference (or budget).

So yes, the only real "fair" competition...Show more →

Because of their uber fast maximum aperture, compromises must be made in order for a lens to remain compact and reasonably priced but at the end of the day, one must love the character, otherwise it does not make sense shooting with them.

I should get the Leica Noctilux F0.95 and F/1 lenses on Monday and will do a resolution/rendering test comparing them to the Voigtlander.
They more information we have, the merrier. I hope this review is answering all the questions we have.

Feb 05, 2022 at 04:00 PM

nehemiahphoto
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

Fred Miranda wrote:
That's a bigger difference than the numbers suggest. In the one-half-stop f/number scale, the difference from F1 to F1.2 is half stop but when going by the one-third-stop f/number scale, it's 2/3 stop difference. In reality it's somewhere in between and I find that considerable.

Because of their uber fast maximum aperture, compromises must be made in order for a lens to remain compact and reasonably priced but at the end of the day, one must love the character, otherwise it does not make sense shooting with them.

I should get the Leica Noctilux F0.95 and F/1 lenses on Monday and...Show more →

We are again in agreement—and yes, 2/3 or half stop is not much different to me, but it is slightly more than a half stop

A much better corrected lens is a much larger lens. Something like Nikon’s Z Noct offering, and I have no interest at that size, no matter how much I like the draw.

And yeah, good luck making a well corrected compact 50 f1 at any price lol

Curious to see the .95 comps—I do like the images from the lens. Thanks for all the stuff you do for us on here

Feb 05, 2022 at 04:18 PM

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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

nehemiahphoto wrote:
We are again in agreement—and yes, 2/3 or half stop is not much different to me, but it is slightly more than a half stop

You're welcome! I am curious to see that as well.

Feb 05, 2022 at 04:48 PM

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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

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Samples 4

Pretty much straight off the camera. (fixed exposure because I didn't have a ND filter)
Not corrected for CA or Vignetting. (Lightroom M10-R and Adobe Standard color profiles)
All at F1.

LEICA M10-R Voigtlander Nokton-M 1:1/50 lens 50mm f/1.4 1/90s 250 ISO 0.0 EV

LEICA M10-R Voigtlander Nokton-M 1:1/50 lens 50mm f/1.0 1/90s 250 ISO 0.0 EV

LEICA M10-R Voigtlander Nokton-M 1:1/50 lens 50mm f/1.0 1/500s 100 ISO 0.0 EV

LEICA M10-R Voigtlander Nokton-M 1:1/50 lens 50mm f/1.0 1/60s 125 ISO 0.0 EV

LEICA M10-R Voigtlander Nokton-M 1:1/50 lens 50mm f/4.0 1/4000s 100 ISO 0.0 EV

LEICA M10-R Voigtlander Nokton-M 1:1/50 lens 50mm f/1.2 1/1500s 100 ISO 0.0 EV

LEICA M10-R Voigtlander Nokton-M 1:1/50 lens 50mm f/4.0 1/2000s 100 ISO 0.0 EV

LEICA M10-R Voigtlander Nokton-M 1:1/50 lens 50mm f/4.0 1/4000s 100 ISO 0.0 EV

LEICA M10-R Voigtlander Nokton-M 1:1/50 lens 50mm f/4.0 1/4000s 100 ISO 0.0 EV

LEICA M10-R Voigtlander Nokton-M 1:1/50 lens 50mm f/4.0 1/4000s 100 ISO 0.0 EV

LEICA M10-R Voigtlander Nokton-M 1:1/50 lens 50mm f/4.0 1/3000s 100 ISO 0.0 EV

LEICA M10-R Voigtlander Nokton-M 1:1/50 lens 50mm f/4.0 1/4000s 100 ISO 0.0 EV

Feb 05, 2022 at 05:16 PM

genji
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

Fred Miranda wrote:
Here is the field curvature shape between Leica 50/1.4 Lux, Voigtlander 50/1 Nokton and Voigtlander 50/1.2 Nokton.
(In this order)

Grass focused at 4m distance with all lenses wide open. This effect can be seeing running 'find edges' in PS or by just moving the sharpening 'masking' slider to 90 or 100 in LR.

Not sure if someone has already suggested this but I wonder if reverse field curvature is an inevitable consequence of including floating elements in the design of a fast 50mm lens?

Feb 05, 2022 at 05:22 PM

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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

genji wrote:
Not sure if someone has already suggested this but I wonder if reverse field curvature is an inevitable consequence of including floating elements in the design of a fast 50mm lens?

I will test the Leica 50/0.95 Noctilux (FLE) for FC as well.

The Sony FE 50/1.2 GM's FC looks way more flat:

Sony FE 50/1.2 GM's FC shape at 3m

Feb 05, 2022 at 05:26 PM

rscheffler
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

Fred, I don't think you're dedicated enough. If you're not going to buy an ND filter, you should at least buy an M11 so you can get proper exposures wide open with these ultra-fast lenses. What's another $9K?? Think of how it will benefit us, your forum faithful!

Feb 05, 2022 at 05:33 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

rscheffler wrote:
Fred, I don't think you're dedicated enough. If you're not going to buy an ND filter, you should at least buy an M11 so you can get proper exposures wide open with these ultra-fast lenses. What's another $9K?? Think of how it will benefit us, your forum faithful!

hahaha

I got brave after comparing the M10-R to the Sony A7R4 in regards to highlight recovery and didn't see any meaningful difference. However, the M11 has ISO 64 which in theory could improve things further. I'm won't know for sure until I get a M11 and that will take a while.

Feb 05, 2022 at 05:55 PM

LarsHP
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p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

In order to get rid of the reverse field curvature introduced by using rangefinder lenses designed for film on Sony a7 series cameras, some enthusiasts mount a plano-convex filter. I wonder how that would work with the Nokton f/1.0 ...

Feb 05, 2022 at 06:06 PM

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p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

LarsHP wrote:
In order to get rid of the reverse field curvature introduced by using rangefinder lenses designed for film on Sony a7 series cameras, some enthusiasts mount a plano-convex filter. I wonder how that would work with the Nokton f/1.0 ...

Good point. It would probably work well reducing that FC but there is no free lunch. It may perhaps impact mid-field IQ.

Unfortunately I don't think OptoSigma makes a 5000 PCX front lens with 60mm diameter. (Only 30mm and 50mm).
Perhaps another brand.

Feb 05, 2022 at 06:16 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton Review

Fred Miranda wrote:
hahaha

I got a brave after comparing the M10-R to the Sony A7R4 in regards to highlight recovery and didn't see any meaningful difference. However, the M11 has ISO 64 which in theory could improve things further. I'm won't know for sure until I get a M11 and that will take a while.

Not only ISO 64 but also electronic shutter to 1/16,000 sec

Feb 05, 2022 at 06:17 PM

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