leewoolery wrote:
I am getting rid of the Z9 and going back to the D2H....no banding there.
I never should have posted pictures with such defects.
Hope Nikon will offer some sort of financial assistance for those of us who were foolish enough to buy a banded camera that cannot be used for sports photos.
leewoolery wrote:
I can't in ,good conscience, even give the camera away, knowing it is incapable of the same quality of sports photos as the competition.
I am refunding the money I was paid while using the Z9 on various assignments since every photo is defective.
No way Lee! That would be a self destructive over reaction to a purely technical problem. You paid good money for the camera, and earned that money from the client by providing good service and excellent images.
Besides as I have said all the competition has to deal with the issue as well. They just have a few more tools at their disposal currently.
In the end it will all work out.
Glad everyone is having fun with this though. It is entertaining!
1bwana1 wrote:
No way Lee! That would be a self destructive over reaction to a purely technical problem. You paid good money for the camera, and earned that money from the client by providing good service and excellent images.
Besides as I have said all the competition has to deal with the issue as well. They just have a few more tools at their disposal currently.
In the end it will all work out.
Glad everyone is having fun with this though. It is entertaining!
You made a fool of yourself because you are working too hard to knock the Z9 (of course, in your overly polite - who me - manner). But you are correct, this is entertaining.
1bwana1 wrote:
Temper tantrums not withstanding, no the banding is not about the camera, it is about the lighting. As others in this thread have referenced, and published articles have shown, it is a real issue and worth understanding. All cameras are subject to it. Some just have more tools to deal with it than others.
Happy to help.
People imagined banding in my images and there were no led signs anywhere near either facility.
How out of focus background elements such as basketball floorboards, tiles on walls, bricks and painted surfaces turned this thread into banding of advertising signage and criticism of Nikon is beyond me?
I just posted images to show how the Z9 performs on sports I photograph...nothing more.
The Z9 is an incredible camera for moving subjects.
gdsf2 wrote:
Ok, it is honesty time. In another thread you wrote the Z9 was unacceptable for shooting sports. You then had to walk that back when somebody called you on it. You had exaggerated the conclusions of an interview. Then in this thread you ask “does the banding in your photos bother you a little bit” when there was no banding. You keep nit picking about the Z9 - mostly incorrectly - and you have no interest in buying one. In some circles we would call this troll like behavior.
As you pointed out when I overstated I stood up, owned it, and rephrased it to more accurately represent the scale of the issue. I am comfortable standing on that.
As I said in my post to Lee I think his work was excellent. I do see some what may be minor banding in the background in some of the red colors, and shadows. That is what I see and I sand by it. Take a look again. These are heavily out of focus areas and I accept that rendering may be the cause not LED lighting. If so, Lee, you, and others are free to make your case for that. But I see nothing wrong for asking about it.
1bwana1 wrote:
As you pointed out when I overstated I stood up, owned it, and rephrased it to more accurately represent the scale of the issue. I am comfortable standing on that.
As I said in my post to Lee I think his work was excellent. I do see some what may be minor banding in the background in some of the red colors, and shadows. That is what I see and I sand by it. Take a look again. These are heavily out of focus areas and I accept that rendering may be the cause not LED lighting. If so, Lee, you, and others are free to make your case for that. But I see nothing wrong for asking about it.
Really, even after Lee said there was no LED signage. Just admit you were wrong. And maybe, try and cool your jets on the Z9. You don’t own one, you have said you don’t want one. Leave it be for the good of the community. Sure, you have the right to say anything you want. But do you really need to weight in on things that have zero impact on you?
leewoolery wrote:
People imagined banding in my images and there were no led signs anywhere near either facility.
How out of focus background elements such as basketball floorboards, tiles on walls, bricks and painted surfaces turned this thread into banding of advertising signage and criticism of Nikon is beyond me?
I just posted images to show how the Z9 performs on sports I photograph...nothing more.
The Z9 is an incredible camera for moving subjects.
I agree that the Z9 is an incredible camera and not just for moving subjects.
I didn't say anything about LED signs. The banding issue can be caused by other lighting in a venue. It then shows up most often on solid surfaces in backgrounds. This is what others claim to have seen. I have said I don't know for sure.
I just asked a sincere question. The answer can go multiple ways. My hope is that it results in an honest answer to the question and we can all learn from it.
As you know from many previous conversations I have always enjoyed your work and spoken highly of your images. Despite what others have said, my posts regarding the Z9 are by and large extremely positive. No ulterior motives here either. Just discussion.
Look, your may or may not have some extremely indistinct banding. Viewers can decide on their own. But the banding issue is real. That makes it a valid issue for discussion so that we can all understand it.
gdsf2 wrote:
Really, even after Lee said there was no LED signage. Just admit you were wrong. And maybe, try and cool your jets on the Z9. You don’t own one, you have said you don’t want one. Leave it be for the good of the community. Sure, you have the right to say anything you want. But do you really need to weight in on things that have zero impact on you?
As I said, signage is not the only potential cause.
I weigh in on things that interest me. No further addenda than that.
1bwana1 wrote:
As I said, signage is not the only potential cause.
I weigh in on things that interest me. No further addenda than that.
You are not fooling anybody. Your motivations are obvious to all. No response required or desired. But I would say there is a pretty good chance that will not stop you.
There's not enough banding present (if it's EVEN present) in any of those to warrant the amount of discussion that followed. They look plenty "client-deliverable" on both a 4K monitor and phone screen. Literally no parent or school would see anything out of place in any of these, and neither do I.
Most of what I thought MIGHT be banding looks simply like lines in the background (brick/bleachers, etc).
RoamingScott wrote:
There's not enough banding present (if it's EVEN present) in any of those to warrant the amount of discussion that followed. They look plenty "client-deliverable" on both a 4K monitor and phone screen. Literally no parent or school would see anything out of place in any of these, and neither do I.
Most of what I thought MIGHT be banding looks simply like lines in the background (brick/bleachers, etc).
I agree with you 100%. This whole issue could have been put to bed quickly if it was kept non emotional and just about banding that may or may not be present.
Here is a link to a discussion not involving LED ad boards and sample images on the topic. Notice it is done without the drama even though it is on DP Review.
Great shots, Lee. The Z9 is looking good in your hands. I've only shot a handful of games so far with it and can't wait to actually putit to work at lower ISOs outdoors with spring sports and at the beach.
1bwana1 wrote:
I agree with you 100%. This whole issue could have been put to bed quickly if it was kept non emotional and just about banding that may or may not be present.
Here is a link to a discussion not involving LED ad boards and sample images on the topic. Notice it is done without the drama even though it is on DP Review.
1bwana1,
You are a very sad person. You don’t own a Z9, you’re not even interested in owning a Z9 but yet, you seem to care deeply on some minor defect of the camera that can and will be remedied by a firmware update.
OP is happy with the result. The guy on DPR interview is happy with the result said it’s minor and most people don’t even encounter it or care for it. And he is someone who makes a living with the camera.
This is the problem I have with this type of Internet forum. A couple of gear head only care for the gear and not so much for the art. I see it time and time again and in that Z9 release and order thread, it proved my point. A couple gear heads who are not nps members were mad because they didn’t get the Z9 on day 1. Once they got the camera, it lasted for a couple weeks before they sold it to someone else. And they’re crying why they’re aren’t priority over someone who actually use the camera to make a living.
Why are you so passionate about the Z9 issue when you should be happy with your A1. I just don’t get it. Why are A1 shooters so attracted to the Z9? Insecurity issue?
this is me wrote:
1bwana1,
You are a very sad person. You don’t own a Z9, you’re not even interested in owning a Z9 but yet, you seem to care deeply on some minor defect of the camera that can and will be remedied by a firmware update.
OP is happy with the result. The guy on DPR interview is happy with the result said it’s minor and most people don’t even encounter it or care for it. And he is someone who makes a living with the camera.
This is the problem I have with this type of Internet forum. A couple of gear head only care for the gear and not so much for the art. I see it time and time again and in that Z9 release and order thread, it proved my point. A couple gear heads who are not nps members were mad because they didn’t get the Z9 on day 1. Once they got the camera, it lasted for a couple weeks before they sold it to someone else. And they’re crying why they’re aren’t priority over someone who actually use the camera to make a living.
Why are you so passionate about the Z9 issue when you should be happy with your A1. I just don’t get it. Why are A1 shooters so attracted to the Z9? Insecurity issue? ...Show more →
No, I am actually a very happy person.
I don't think a desire to own something is prerequisite to having an interest in it or the reverse.
I am not a proxy for the behavior of the others you posted about.
I do find it interesting that the Z9 is the first mirrorless to do away with the mechanical shutter. I expect others will follow in this. I would like to discuss and understand what the ramifications of this are. It will eventually effect most of us I think.
I hit “hide member” a while back on him and it was one of my best calls. Cheers.
this is me wrote:
1bwana1,
You are a very sad person. You don’t own a Z9, you’re not even interested in owning a Z9 but yet, you seem to care deeply on some minor defect of the camera that can and will be remedied by a firmware update.
OP is happy with the result. The guy on DPR interview is happy with the result said it’s minor and most people don’t even encounter it or care for it. And he is someone who makes a living with the camera.
This is the problem I have with this type of Internet forum. A couple of gear head only care for the gear and not so much for the art. I see it time and time again and in that Z9 release and order thread, it proved my point. A couple gear heads who are not nps members were mad because they didn’t get the Z9 on day 1. Once they got the camera, it lasted for a couple weeks before they sold it to someone else. And they’re crying why they’re aren’t priority over someone who actually use the camera to make a living.
Why are you so passionate about the Z9 issue when you should be happy with your A1. I just don’t get it. Why are A1 shooters so attracted to the Z9? Insecurity issue? ...Show more →
1bwana1 wrote:
No, I am actually a very happy person.
I don't think a desire to own something is prerequisite to having an interest in it or the reverse.
I am not a proxy for the behavior of the others you posted about.
I do find it interesting that the Z9 is the first mirrorless to do away with the mechanical shutter. I expect others will follow in this. I would like to discuss and understand what the ramifications of this are. It will eventually effect most of us I think.
Nothing more.
You should be happy.
I don’t stalk people. But I do try to remember their posts. And I do see that you have an A1. It’s one of the best camera in the market. There’s really no need to look over the fence. The grass isn’t greener here. Z9 and Z system has some catching to do. Banding isn’t something new. There are fixes for it and Nikon will learn how to deal with it in a firmware update.
leewoolery wrote:
I can't in ,good conscience, even give the camera away, knowing it is incapable of the same quality of sports photos as the competition.
I am refunding the money I was paid while using the Z9 on various assignments since every photo is defective.
The more I learn and understand the Z9, it is the finest camera I have ever used for my sports photography business with the D6 and 1D Mark III not far behind.
From my perspective, as a business owner, the Z9 brings out the very best in the Nikkor lenses that I currently own which means I don't need to purchase all new gear.
The 2 lenses that have new life are the 200 f/2 and 200-400 f/4 which need no calibration with mirrorless bodies and the incredible AF system on the Z9 brings any lens to new heights and fully utilize their unique qualities.
I always shoot the 200 f/2 wide open so there is a limited depth of field to begin with but the eye recognition plus the low light focusing capabilities of the Z9 let me take action photos in some places where I never could have in the past.
I have used the 200-400 f/4 indoors, with excellent results on the Z9 and D6,when there is enough light, but I feel this lens is best suited for outdoor, daylight sporting events and look forward to spring.
Here again, not having to calibrate this lens combined with the awesome focusing system on the Z9 opens up so many more opportunities for a tele zoom of this range.
The 400 f/2.8, 300 f/2.8 and 70-200 f/2.8 E worked flawlessly on the D6 but are even better on the Z9, with the adapter.
I can use all of the lenses with the Z9 (and D6) plus who knows how soon Nikon will produce a Z mount 200 f/2 or 200-400 f/4?
I have only shot with the Z9 for 3 weeks now and the camera performs as advertised.
LED flicker exists, just like CRT scanning, CFL white balance shifts, and CFL flicker.
The Z9's stacked sensor shows LED banding in a different way to legacy mechanical shutters. Photographers will adapt, as we always do.
One thing is for sure, full electronic shutters are the future. Either advertisers won't care, or advertisers will insist on displays with no flicker as electronic shutters take over the market.
Juvenile "my team" trolling aside, we all benefit from being aware of what causes these kinds of effects, so we can all learn to adapt. Anyone laughing at the Z9 right now is only laughing at what they'll be adapting to in a few years when their favored system migrates to an electronic-only shutter.
I've coaxed banding and pattern noise out of my Z9, just like I've managed to do with my Z6, Fuji cameras, Sony cameras, Olympus cameras, and Canon cameras. I'm just happy the Z9 doesn't have the awful AF motor banding issue like the 5D2 had. I had to avoid servo AF above ISO1600 with some lenses for that one. This is a footnote by comparison.
