Development announcement for now. This lens deserves its own thread. The 500PF thread started ages before it actually came out and is now 100s of pages long filled with images and discussion. Will be interesting to see how the 800PF evolves with time.
Interesting that Nikon is not listing PF in the main name but has huge Phase Fresnel yellow lettering on the lens.
Price??
Release??
Exciting times for long glass Nikon shooters!!
From Nikon:
"Development of the NIKKOR Z 800mm f/6.3 VR S
Nikon is pleased to announce the development of the NIKKOR Z 800mm f/6.3 VR S, a super-telephoto prime lens for full-frame (Nikon FX-format) Nikon Z mirrorless cameras.
The NIKKOR Z 800mm f/6.3 VR S is an S-Line lens, delivering powerful rendering with outstanding resolution while thoroughly reducing color bleeding. By adopting a PF (Phase Fresnel) lens that enables a compact and lightweight body, it is highly portable despite being a super-telephoto lens. With its high rendering performance and superb mobility, this lens will be an excellent choice for many types of photographers ranging from advanced amateurs to professionals. "
I don’t care if this ends up costing as much as 600mm f4 if it’s light weight and less bulk. If the difference is like the 500mm f4 and 500mm f5.6pF, I would rather get the 800f6.3PF over the 600mmf4.
I’m always on a 1.4x on the 600mm f4 and often have to step down to 7.1 to have about DOF and sharpness.
Bravo Nikon. 2022 will be fun.
Great to see it was f/6.3 as I measured from the silhouettes on the roadmap.
My ultimate two PF lens combo would be 400 f/4 + 800 f/6.3, but I suspect the f/4 is closer to f/4.2. Still 560 f/5.9 is ~ same speed as 500 f/5.6 + hypothetical 1.12x TC, so no loss there.
I would say 800 f/6.3 PF would weigh about 2.3kg -/+ 100g. Price would be about $7.5K IMO.
I see a gap near the mount side of the lens on the 800 image, to the right of the S. I assume it's for filter, but looks like a dirt trap.
arbitrage wrote:
If you look up my early comments in the 500PF thread I wasn't all that interested. Now I'd put the 500PF in the top 3-5 lenses I've owned.
I'm not all that interested in this 800PF either. Mostly because it is starting off at 800 and I'd prefer getting to 800 with a TC.
But maybe I'll change my mind once we know more about weight and price next year.
Did you not sell your 500pf? I live in Victoria and wasn't quick enough on the draw when I thought you were selling it (unless I'm mistaken)!
There are a lot of times where I would appreciate a lens like this one. It might be a tough decision between the Z 600 and the Z 800 PF now. Probably both will have a similar price. Honestly if the 800 is lighter it will be very tempting. However, the Sony 600 f/4 is 3.09kg. The Nikon 800 f/5.6 is 4590kg. Looking at some random lenses I used a factor of 1.3x reduction in weight per stop and 1.3x reduction in weight for using PF technology. (Seems about consistent with comparing the Sony 70-200 f/4 vs 70-200 f/2.8 and some other random lenses), and the formula roughly works out comparing the 500mm f/4 E to the 500mm PF. Assuming the scaling by weight is exponential we should expect a 1.3^(1/3) reduction in weight from f/5.6 to f/6.3. And another 1.3x for the PF element.
So 4590/1.3^(1/3)/1.3 = 3150 approximately. Okay, so the formula is a bit conservative since the 500mm PF is actually a little lighter than this logic predicts. However, still, it seems hard to believe that they will manage to get it under 3kg....maybe 2.9 if they try really hard.
So my guess is this lens will be the same weight as the Z 600... . Keep in mind I made quite a few assumptions in this calculation but just think about it...it is not very far from the 800 f/5.6. Although maybe the larger the lens, the more the weight in glass so the PF could have a disproportionate effect? Still though, seems hard to get it under ~3kg. Maybe 2.6 with new materials?
let's not forget that this is also a new generation of Nikon super tele lenses (together with the 400mm f2.8 TC) and they typically manage to reduce the weight by 10-15% from one generation to the next.
My bet is 2.6kg (and I think the 400mm f2.8 TC will weight 3.3 kg).
JasonTheBirder wrote:
There are a lot of times where I would appreciate a lens like this one. It might be a tough decision between the Z 600 and the Z 800 PF now. Probably both will have a similar price. Honestly if the 800 is lighter it will be very tempting. However, the Sony 600 f/4 is 3.09kg. The Nikon 800 f/5.6 is 4590kg. Looking at some random lenses I used a factor of 1.3x reduction in weight per stop and 1.3x reduction in weight for using PF technology. (Seems about consistent with comparing the Sony 70-200 f/4 vs 70-200 f/2.8 and some other random lenses), and the formula roughly works out comparing the 500mm f/4 E to the 500mm PF. Assuming the scaling by weight is exponential we should expect a 1.3^(1/3) reduction in weight from f/5.6 to f/6.3. And another 1.3x for the PF element.
So 4590/1.3^(1/3)/1.3 = 3150 approximately. Okay, so the formula is a bit conservative since the 500mm PF is actually a little lighter than this logic predicts. However, still, it seems hard to believe that they will manage to get it under 3kg....maybe 2.9 if they try really hard.
So my guess is this lens will be the same weight as the Z 600... . Keep in mind I made quite a few assumptions in this calculation but just think about it...it is not very far from the 800 f/5.6. Although maybe the larger the lens, the more the weight in glass so the PF could have a disproportionate effect? Still though, seems hard to get it under ~3kg. Maybe 2.6 with new materials?...Show more →
I think your formula is pessimistic. Eg Canon 300 f/4 1.2kg vs 300 f/2.8 2.5kg (same generation). Canon 70-200 f/2.8 (non IS) 1.3kg, 70-200 f/4 (non IS) 700g. Canon 400 f5.6 1.1kg, 400 f/4 DO 2kg, 400 f/2.8 3.8kg
You lose about 40-45% of the weight per stop IMO. So IMO you'd be already around 2.8kg basing weight reduction off old heavy lens. A new age 800 f/5.6 should come in at around 3.2kg max, almost same weight as a new age 600 f/4 - almost same length body and slightly smaller front element. If we used 40% weight reduction per stop and a 3.2kg base we get down to around 2kg. But I doubt it would be that light. Might hit 2.5kg.
saaketham wrote:
So the Nikon is about 1485x heavy compared to the Sony. Time to hit the weights 🧛🏼♂️
This is why they say the pro bodies are built like tanks. You need a tank to support the weight of the 800mm. If you put that thing on the roof of your truck you instantly destroy the truck.
I'm not quite sure what I'll do now. I had assumed that I'd eventually end up with my 180-400 TC as my main travel and mammals lens and I'd get a 600 f4 for UK birding. This 800 PF would likely be a better solution for the birds but with a big exception of going into photography hides which are often set up for a 400-600mm focal length.
I could absolutely imagine being on safari with 2 bodies, the 180-400 and the 800 PF and just being ready for anything. I'm not quite sure if that would all fit in a bag but I think it probably would. If I had a 600 f4 then I don't think I'd expect to fly with it. It would very much be that or the 180-400.
Completely different usage, but I'd love to see a re-issued and designed 300 PF (400 PF also looks awesome). Happy to see Nikon's engineers have been working hard, now crossing fingers that their production folks can get the pending products out in volume.
For me, this is actually a dream lens. I have waited in vain for a 600mm f5.6 lens for 10 years, but on a full frame body, this 800mm f6.3 PF lens is also a fantastic option. I have completely given up on a decent aps-c crop Z body, but on a 45-50 mp full frame body, this would also be close to ideal, giving a much better viewfinder experience and abundant room to crop.
Not needing a TC will always mean better performance with more distant wildlife/birds. A TC is great when it helps to fill the frame, but it is lousy at increasing actual reach, due to loss of resolution, and increased artifacts. This lens will be great for everything where reach is paramount. Slow PF lenses are even worse at taking a TC, so for sure 800mm f6.3 is much better than a 600mm f5.6PF with 1.4TC.
F6.3 is amazing really, I was initially expecting f8. I see this as a perfect lens with a Z7II, as this lens is not really intended for BIF, and a Z9 would be more camera than this lens needs. But with the Z7II this may pass the portability test.
The more I think of it, the more it dawns on me that it is great that Nikon breaks the traditional super telephoto stigma of super large/heavy and inaffordable, without resorting to Canon's super telephoto lenses for the millions.
It is targeted at professionals, but also at advanced amateurs, so I would expect this lens to stay below 10.000,- but not much below.
With the Z9, Nikon gave me a firm push towards Sony, but with this lens, I am right back in. Not with the Z9, but with the Z7II, that will hopefully get a BIG firmware update AF-wise.
. Keep in mind I made quite a few assumptions in this calculation but just think about it...it is not very far from the 800 f/5.6. Although maybe the larger the lens, the more the weight in glass so the PF could have a disproportionate effect? Still though, seems hard to get it under ~3kg. Maybe 2.6 with new materials?