p.38 #1 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Thanks! That helped a lot!
Apr 15, 2022 at 11:19 AM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.38 #2 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
groob wrote:
I mainly shoot birds and also shoot only in RAW. The fact that Nikon’s pre-capture comes in JPG doesn’t really bother me. For one, people are downplaying the edit-ability of JPGs.
z9 30fps jpgs are weak sauce, they have 2x more compression than z9 jpgs that are shot at slower framerates.
10-bit heif hdr capability sounds like it would be a big improvement over that, but the z9 can't shoot heif.
are these z9 limitations deliberate, in order to set the stage for a z9ii, or is it a hardware limitation.
p.38 #3 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Great info here, thanks.
arbitrage wrote:
Sony seems to be the main offender for dropping resolution in the EVF in a lot of scenarios.
I do really like the A1 EVF but I don't think it lives up to the hype of the 9.1 million dots. The main reason is that for the way I shoot I basically never get to see the camera using 9.1 million dots except I think in playback. What I do find lives up to the hype is the 0.9x magnification. That to me is the one advantage the A1 EVF has over the competition.
IMO the actual viewing experience through an R5 or R3 EVF is nicer than the A1 other than the smaller magnification. The 5.x million dot resolution is the same as what I get to see in the A1 EVF when I'm shooting. But it seems the A1 drops even further when actively focusing in some situations. Overall the R5/R3 EVF is a nicer image when actively focusing and shooting. Of course the big downside on the R5 is the frame insertion which certainly takes it down many notches compared to shooting any of the stacked sensor cameras. I actually don't even think the stacked R3 is giving a live feed to the EVF but it was still pretty smooth to shoot at 30FPS.
I think it is also worth pointing out, something I never see talked about, is that even on the A1 the "live feed" to the EVF is still dependent on your SS once actively firing. Just shoot slower SS in the rain or snow to see the effect. As you shoot you see the elongated raindrops or snowflakes. I guess this makes sense as the feed is not being split off early enough and is therefore showing what the camera is recording....is this technically a slideshow? Is this a little less than "reality" while actively shooting? Is Nikon's dual-feed actually better for this? I'm not sure...I should have tested this when I had the camera.
I've tried the 240Hz of the A1 but every time I do I find I'm missing the 0.9x mag more so than any realized advantage going from 120 to 240. In fact I've yet to see the 240 make a difference in my shooting. I do plan to try and test this more. I may just shoot at the lower EVF mag in 120 to get used to it and then do some testing at 240.
As for the Z9, I actually found the EVF image to be better than expected for only 3.x million dots. Nikon certainly uses better optics. I didn't really notice a big issue with the 60Hz but I didn't have my best test subjects available at the time (hummingbirds flitting from one flower to the next) where I've had issues at 60Hz in the past when testing 60 vs 120 on the A9. I find it really strange that Nikon was able to just up the EVF refresh via FW with no compromises to the display feed. Why didn't they ship the camera like this? The only downside is battery life. My biggest issue with the Z9 EVF is I found it very difficult to judge my exposure. Obviously I missed my Sony zebras but I don't have issue nailing exposure with the R5/R3 EVF. With the Z9 even with histogram active I was always off. WYSIWYG is not good on the Z9. Maybe the EVF lacks DR or something??
Bottom line, the spec sheets don't correlate well with the actual EVF experience. Only trying them for yourself can you figure out where the compromises come in and where the spec sheets don't live up to the hype. Or sometimes where the EVF outshines the spec sheet....Show more →
p.38 #4 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
osv2 wrote:
z9 30fps jpgs are weak sauce, they have 2x more compression than z9 jpgs that are shot at slower framerates.
10-bit heif hdr capability sounds like it would be a big improvement over that, but the z9 can't shoot heif.
are these z9 limitations deliberate, in order to set the stage for a z9ii, or is it a hardware limitation.
Nobody knows. I’m sure everybody thought 120hz EVF was a hardware limitation. It seems Nikon released the Z9 to get it out in response to R3, with plans for large improvements via fw. The AF zone customization has been known since Oct 2021. If enough people clamor for HEIF it’ll probably be added. However, I have not noticed that feature on many wishlists.
p.38 #5 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
osv2 wrote:
z9 30fps jpgs are weak sauce, they have 2x more compression than z9 jpgs that are shot at slower framerates.
10-bit heif hdr capability sounds like it would be a big improvement over that, but the z9 can't shoot heif.
are these z9 limitations deliberate, in order to set the stage for a z9ii, or is it a hardware limitation.
Exactly how much editing do you think is required for a bird taking off from a perch? If you get the exposure right (although I see Arbitrage says that’s not exactly child’s play on a Z9), there’s not going to be much difference in output between a JPG and a RAW file. In fact, I’d bet you a beer you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference in a 1600 pixel-wide photo posted on this forum. At what point might you notice a difference? Standing up close to a big print, but who does that? You make fine point about compression, but as you also intimate, that will likely affect dynamic range more than anything else. Might one of these compressed JPGs have trouble handling a bufflehead or a loon in direct light? Sure. Does that mean this feature is useless? Of course not.
As always, some people like to ignore the fact that a feature will be perfectly fine for 95%+ of use cases and complain because it *might* not work in the most extreme circumstances. I mean, you’ve heard of the law of diminishing returns, right?
p.38 #6 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
groob wrote:
Exactly how much editing do you think is required for a bird taking off from a perch? If you get the exposure right (although I see Arbitrage says that’s not exactly child’s play on a Z9), there’s not going to be much difference in output between a JPG and a RAW file. In fact, I’d bet you a beer you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference in a 1600 pixel-wide photo posted on this forum. At what point might you notice a difference? Standing up close to a big print, but who does that? You make fine point about compression, but as you also intimate, that will likely affect dynamic range more than anything else. Might one of these compressed JPGs have trouble handling a bufflehead or a loon in direct light? Sure. Does that mean this feature is useless? Of course not.
As always, some people like to ignore the fact that a feature will be perfectly fine for 95%+ of use cases and complain because it *might* not work in the most extreme circumstances. I mean, you’ve heard of the law of diminishing returns, right? ...Show more →
I don't know...but I always shoot raw as it can save an image that otherwise might not make the cut. Hitting exposure right can be challenging at times...especially when the subject is in high contrast situations. Yes, most shots it would be hard to tell between jpeg and raw...but it's those shots that are extreme that can make the difference.
p.38 #7 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
groob wrote:
Exactly how much editing do you think is required for a bird taking off from a perch?
Do you even shoot birds? Unless your name is Moose Peterson a fair bit of editing is usually required, especially cropping.
As always, some people like to ignore the fact that a feature will be perfectly fine for 95%+ of use cases and complain because it *might* not work in the most extreme circumstances.
As always, such statistics are conjectured from thin air. I assume it has not occurred to you that people "complaining" here may in fact have a specific use case and maybe don't care much whether they are a minority?
p.38 #8 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
osv2 wrote:
i have to wonder how these settings affects people who wear glasses while shooting, since they can't get their eye up against the evf.
I'm wearing glasses and I can see the entire view in the EVF without resorting to the "zoom-out" feature. I guess that feature is for people with much stronger glasses than mine.
Apr 15, 2022 at 02:44 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.38 #9 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
groob wrote:
Exactly how much editing do you think is required for a bird taking off from a perch? If you get the exposure right (although I see Arbitrage says that’s not exactly child’s play on a Z9), there’s not going to be much difference in output between a JPG and a RAW file.
i said nothing about raw... the fact that nikon offers jpg capture at lower compression ratios proves that people want it, over the weaker z9 30fps jpgs.
i think that 10-bit hdr heif will prove to be a much better acquisition format than jpg for people who want to process small files in post; it's the same file size as jpg and it can be edited in photoshop and exported in 8-bit jpg for distribution.
p.38 #10 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Steve Spencer wrote:
Unfortunately, it seems to be only for jpeg. That you have to have the target in the frame and composed well for precapture to work limits its usefulness considerably. I don't think the A1 is missing much by not having this feature.
Were you expecting the camera to take a picture of something you’re not aiming at? That would be cool. You could just leave the camera in your bag and if will magically have beautiful images of birds recorded.
p.38 #11 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
gdsf2 wrote:
Were you expecting the camera to take a picture of something you’re not aiming at? That would be cool. You could just leave the camera in your bag and if will magically have beautiful images of birds recorded.
My A1 can do this. Especially usefull for those cold Winter sunrise shoots. I don't even have to get out of bed to get the shot. This function is built into the Sony stacked sensor. They don't sell this sensor to other companies so it is an exclusive feature. Another advantage to being the largest image sensor company in the World.
Apr 16, 2022 at 01:44 AM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.38 #12 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
gdsf2 wrote:
Were you expecting the camera to take a picture of something you’re not aiming at? That would be cool. You could just leave the camera in your bag and if will magically have beautiful images of birds recorded.
Of course not, just pointing out the limitations of precapture and that it isn't magic.
p.38 #13 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
1bwana1 wrote:
My A1 can do this. Especially usefull for those cold Winter sunrise shoots. I don't even have to get out of bed to get the shot. This function is built into the Sony stacked sensor. They don't sell this sensor to other companies so it is an exclusive feature. Another advantage to being the largest image sensor company in the World.
Meh. Z9 can do both the sunrise and sunset at same time.
p.38 #15 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
groob wrote:
Exactly how much editing do you think is required for a bird taking off from a perch? If you get the exposure right (although I see Arbitrage says that’s not exactly child’s play on a Z9), there’s not going to be much difference in output between a JPG and a RAW file. In fact, I’d bet you a beer you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference in a 1600 pixel-wide photo posted on this forum. At what point might you notice a difference? Standing up close to a big print, but who does that? You make fine point about compression, but as you also intimate, that will likely affect dynamic range more than anything else. Might one of these compressed JPGs have trouble handling a bufflehead or a loon in direct light? Sure. Does that mean this feature is useless? Of course not.
As always, some people like to ignore the fact that a feature will be perfectly fine for 95%+ of use cases and complain because it *might* not work in the most extreme circumstances. I mean, you’ve heard of the law of diminishing returns, right? ...Show more →
If people are going to spend $5500 on a top of the line camera, then it makes sense to want raw. If you are saying that pictures posted on the internet won't show a difference, then that is an argument to use your cell phone over cameras.
p.38 #16 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Steve Spencer wrote:
Of course not, just pointing out the limitations of precapture and that it isn't magic.
Good to know. Here I was, fully convinced it were unlimited magic.
Apr 16, 2022 at 09:57 AM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.38 #17 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Daran wrote:
Good to know. Here I was, fully convinced it were unlimited magic.
Good to know you were. I will keep that in mind when evaluating what you say. My general point is that when you miss pressing the shutter you also often miss the composition you want, so precapture can be a lot less useful than people hope.
p.38 #18 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Steve Spencer wrote:
My general point is that when you miss pressing the shutter you also often miss the composition you want, so precapture can be a lot less useful than people hope.
I am at a loss what you think people hope to use the feature for.
I have been shooting stuff that was extremely difficult to predict. I shot it mostly by generously spraying bursts, whenever I though things might get started. Worked, but clearly would have been easier with some form of pre-capture. Would also not have filled the card with a gazillion of useless shots that were taken too early.
p.38 #19 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Daran wrote:
I am at a loss what you think people hope to use the feature for.
I have been shooting stuff that was extremely difficult to predict. I shot it mostly by generously spraying bursts, whenever I though things might get started. Worked, but clearly would have been easier with some form of pre-capture. Would also not have filled the card with a gazillion of useless shots that were taken too early.
Indeed. As I understand it (hopefully correctly), pre-capture would mean that when I react a split second too late (due to being human) to a zippy, unpredictable warbler taking off from a branch, I would actually have some shots of the bird taking off as opposed to my usual experience of just ending up with shots of a tail end of the bird leaving the frame (or just a bare branch with no sign of bird life).
As for composition, I'd be happy to deal with that via cropping after getting the shot instead of having no shot to begin with.
Apr 16, 2022 at 03:41 PM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.38 #20 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Daran wrote:
I am at a loss what you think people hope to use the feature for.
I have been shooting stuff that was extremely difficult to predict. I shot it mostly by generously spraying bursts, whenever I though things might get started. Worked, but clearly would have been easier with some form of pre-capture. Would also not have filled the card with a gazillion of useless shots that were taken too early.
I thought you thought it was magic Perhaps you still do. You really think you can react after the movement starts, get a good composition and keep the target in the frame within that one second of precapture? I don't think you will be missing much with the A1 and the Z9 only does precapture with jpeg, so I don't think it is much of an advantage for the Z9. Perhaps it is a feature that would be really good for you, but don't expect magic.
The stuff I shoot I can predict the movement I care about the vast majority of the time, so I am not very interested in this feature and not at all interested in it with jpeg. So, for me, it is not something that draws me to the Z9 at all, but YMMV and very likely does.
Perhaps you still do. You really think you can react after the movement starts, get a good composition and keep the target in the frame within that one second of precapture? I don't think you will be missing much with the A1 and the Z9 only does precapture with jpeg, so I don't think it is much of an advantage for the Z9. Perhaps it is a feature that would be really good for you, but don't expect magic.