p.3 #1 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
shadow9d9 wrote:
The ergonomics are far, far worse on the Z9 for me. I returned the GFX 100 for similar reasons. Huge and heavy are anti ergonomic and anticomfort, and to me, antifun. The sensor readout is for all intents and purposes, identical. Close mount is horrible. I don't know what "superior experience when quickly changing lenses" means.
The storage being on a cheaper CFexpress is indeed superior, as is ibis improving ios.
I can't fathom how the Z9 at almost twice the weight of the A1 feeling more ergonomic after lugging it for a day or two.
p.3 #2 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
I didn't watch the video, but did they mention that the Z9 will output 8K60p? That's a massive advantage over the A1. The only other camera doing that which is roughly the same price point is the Ursa12K which has no AF.
I like the Z9 body, I grip all my Sony's to make them more substantial (for grip) and it makes portrait orientation capture easier, but I also prefer that the Sony can be broken down to make it pocketable when is prefer a smaller size.
The Nikon will adapt the longer lenses Sony don't have, not a point of difference if you don't shoot the long stuff.
p.3 #4 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Heavy and large camera for sure...but I guess some DSLR diehards want that. I do not, owned a Canon 1dx Mkii at one point and hated the size and weight . Also it's funny how some assume because it's bigger it must be tougher... But thats actually opposite in the engineering world. Large areas within a magnesium frame are open to more flex and vibration unless structural reinforcement points are added, which adds more weight. Also not uncommon for a large DSLR to get dropped on the ground from waste level and stop functioning all together (heavier it is the harder the impact!). So completely false Narratives. I know the A1 feels very well made, robust even and will stand up to any full sized DSLR in durability yet is very compact in comparison.
p.3 #5 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Dave Sanders wrote:
I can't fathom how you can't fathom that.
Just hang a 1.3 pound weight onto your camera and walk around with that camera / weight hanging off your shoulder / neck / wrist for a few days. That might give you some insight.
p.3 #6 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Maxxus46 wrote:
Heavy and large camera for sure...but I guess some DSLR diehards want that. I do not, owned a Canon 1dx Mkii at one point and hated the size and weight . Also it's funny how some assume because it's bigger it must be tougher... But thats actually opposite in the engineering world. Large areas within a magnesium frame are open to more flex and vibration unless structural reinforcement points are added, which adds more weight. Also not uncommon for a large DSLR to get dropped on the ground from waste level and stop functioning all together (heavier it is the harder the impact!). So completely false Narratives. I know the A1 feels very well made, robust even and will stand up to any full sized DSLR in durability yet is very compact in comparison. ...Show more →
Yes...big and heavy must be better...just like the North American automobiles of the 60's / 70's
p.3 #7 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Lol yes of course 😂
Nov 07, 2021 at 05:35 PM
duncang Offline • • • [X]
p.3 #8 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
For extreme BIF I think the A1 is unmatched.
- weight - I had to hand hold pretty much non-stop for 4 days (32 hours) so even the A1+200-600 proved to heavy. The A1 + 100-400GM at just a bit over 2KG is just manageable for me. An extra half a kilogram would put it in the same range as the 200-600.
- 240p EVF - remains to be seem how the Z9 EVF performs with fast small birds close up but 240p makes a big difference compared to 120p
- 30fps RAW - RAW is critical because of high shutter speeds and high iso and exposure adjustment in post. Also 30fps is 50% more images than 20fps and that makes a big difference in the number of images with good framing/composition. A single side to side head shake takes the bird 0.03 seconds so you miss much of the close up action at 20fps.
Still it is a good start so should perform at least as well as the a9 but with 45MP and usually Nikon pixels are pretty sweet (if they are anything like the D850 pixels that is).
p.3 #10 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
NonDecaf wrote:
There are several important (to me) metrics where the Z9 is clearly superior - price, ergonomics, faster storage, faster sensor readout, superior experience when quickly changing lenses, sensor stabilization, low light focusing, etc.
I would lose lose enough money switching to the Z9 that its not worthwhile for me. If I was upgrading from an older camera, I would not choose the A1 at that price point.
This is an interesting list. I have a question or two on two of them.
Price - certainly; I'd love to have paid $5500 for my a1.
Ergonomics - some people like larger and heavier and I can understand that.
Faster storage - agreed, although only if I'm unable to get the shots I want with slower storage. Faster storage which goes unused is no real value (however, I'm sure there are use cases where it would get used).
Faster sensor readout - I don't know that it's enough faster than the a1 to matter (or the a9ii for that matter, except for flash sync which the a9ii won't do).
Superior experience when quickly changing lenses - Can you elaborate this? If the sensor cover closing quickly is what you mean, I follow. If it's something else, what would that be?
Sensor stabilization - Sony typically doesn't lead the pack in this respect.
Low light focusing - Is there enough demonstrated use cases to ascertain this?
p.3 #11 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
This, and other comparos, ignore that Sony, with their A9 then A1, have beaten CaNikon in time to market. As such now Sony has a mature native lens line up. They are only missing a 300mm F2.8 (*)
CaNikon have released specifications for yet to be sold cameras which must mount many of their DSLR lenses by way of adapters. The Sony A1 is here and, by the absence of gripes, is working-well. If Sony’s reputation is any guide the A1 will work even better with FW updates.
The Z9 likely omitted the mechanical shutter to drop the price (the mechanical shutter is a pricey system). So these comparos may make sense in the future for photographers who have scant existing gear inventory once we get real data from the field. However the jury’s still out on that one.
* I have an ancient EF 300mm F2.8 “L” (non IS) which will AF extremely well with my A1 as well as my EF 200mm F2.0.
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p.3 #12 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
shadow9d9 wrote:
The ergonomics are far, far worse on the Z9 for me. I returned the GFX 100 for similar reasons. Huge and heavy are anti ergonomic and anticomfort, and to me, antifun. The sensor readout is for all intents and purposes, identical. Close mount is horrible. I don't know what "superior experience when quickly changing lenses" means.
The storage being on a cheaper CFexpress is indeed superior, as is ibis improving ios.
OK I looked it up and Z9 is 1340g with cards/battery, A1 is 1219g with grip/cards/battery. A difference of 121 grams is not what I would call "heavy". Yes, ergonomics is a personal matter. I don't like skinny cameras because I can't comfortably hold them, especially with heavy lenses, or when I am holding it in one hand. Sony has been successively increasing the grip and camera size every generation, they just need to continue doing that
E mount may be open, but I believe no third-party lenses can do 30fps. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this limitation is imposed by Sony. I'm sure non-sports/action shooters don't care about this, but we're comparing the A1 so its probably relevant here.
When I'm changing lenses on my A1 it takes a while for the shutter to come down (when you switch it off), and on the Z9 its instant. Same when turning the camera on - its instant on the Z9. Anything I can do to save time in my workflow is valuable to me. Some people leave the camera on, but the exposed sensor is somewhat of a dust magnet, and its best to have it covered between lens changes.
p.3 #14 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
NonDecaf wrote:
OK I looked it up and Z9 is 1340g with cards/battery, A1 is 1219g with grip/cards/battery. A difference of 121 grams is not what I would call "heavy". Yes, ergonomics is a personal matter. I don't like skinny cameras because I can't comfortably hold them, especially with heavy lenses, or when I am holding it in one hand. Sony has been successively increasing the grip and camera size every generation, they just need to continue doing that
E mount may be open, but I believe no third-party lenses can do 30fps. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this limitation is imposed by Sony. I'm sure non-sports/action shooters don't care about this, but we're comparing the A1 so its probably relevant here.
When I'm changing lenses on my A1 it takes a while for the shutter to come down (when you switch it off), and on the Z9 its instant. Same when turning the camera on - its instant on the Z9. Anything I can do to save time in my workflow is valuable to me. Some people leave the camera on, but the exposed sensor is somewhat of a dust magnet, and its best to have it covered between lens changes....Show more →
But you can get the A1 down to 737gm...the Z9...not so much. That is a huge difference in weight and bulk IMHO. Not everyone needs or in fact wants a added grip.
p.3 #15 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Maxxus46 wrote:
I highly doubt Geoff would swap his A1 for a Z9. Hard to believe
Yeah no...there will be no swapping going on. There will be some testing and comparing and having a camera to use my 500PF on for a little while.
Even if the Z9 would blow away the A1 (and obviously it isn't going to do that) I'd need some serious glass like 600/4 or the 400/2.8 with 1.4TC built in to even consider a swap back to Nikon. In a year or two I'll see where the Z lenses are at and know how the Z9 is and of course maybe new A1 or A9 by then also.
p.3 #17 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
Maxxus46 wrote:
They also emitted a high end EVF to drop price even further.. the A1's 9m dot EVF is very expensive compared to an older 3.6m 60Hz EVF on the Z9!!
That EVF is one of the things I really want to try out. Second only to the AF. Because Sony EVFs have never impressed me compared to Nikon and Canon even though the Sony ones rule the spec sheets. DPR is saying the Z9 EVF is better to shoot with than the A1 despite the disappointing spec sheet. Nikon is claiming some impressive feats with this EVF. We shall see how much is true or not.
p.3 #18 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
chez wrote:
But you can get the A1 down to 737gm...the Z9...not so much. That is a huge difference in weight and bulk IMHO. Not everyone needs or in fact wants a added grip.
Yes, that is a benefit for the A1. But at the same time, there is a reason why Sony offers the grip, and many people purchase it, when it is easy to just carry a couple of extra batteries in your pocket. So if you're one of those people who prefer the handling with the grip, the weight is not really a major issue, and an integrated design will be sturdier than using a screw-on grip.
p.3 #19 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
I have no intention of buying a Z9. But as an A1 owner, I am impressed by it.
Especially this dual stream reading off the sensor. Sounds like a very good idea. I do notice the resolution drop and slight frame stutters on the A1 when you engage AF. So this technique Nikon implemented sounds like a cool idea.
I do think this does put a limitation on the resolution of the EVF that Nikon can use. Some people are saying the relatively average resolution of the EVF is purely a cost cutting measure. But I tend to believe that the stream coming off the sensor that feeds the EVF is limited in resolution because the second stream takes up the majority of the bandwidth of the data coming off the sensor.
So there no need to have an ultra high resolution EVF if the electronics can’t drive it. That’s just a guess though. If this technology works as good as early reviews say it does. I have no doubt the second generation Dual Stream driven EVF will be higher resolution.
As far as the rest of the Z9. It all looks very impressive. But nothing groundbreaking. Specs seem to be fairly comparable to the A1. Some where the Z9 holds the edge. Some things where the A1 still holds the edge.
Nikon removed the shutter completely. Yeah, OK. I’m not sure that’s necessarily an advantage with the current sensor read out speeds we have. Nikon’s may technically have the fastest sensor readout speed at this time. But I read some speculation that it reads lines at the same speed as the A1’s sensor. But the lower MP count allows it to finish reading the sensor faster because the A1’s sensor has more MP to read. Whether any of this is true, who knows? I’m sure someone will test that in the coming months.
All in all though. The Z9 looks like an impressive offering by Nikon. Which is no surprise. Nikon has been in the photography business a long time. They know how to make world class products.
I will be following reviews in the coming months as photographers get them in their hands. I am particularly curious how well it handles LED banding. Especially since Nikon doesn’t offer the fine tuning of shutter speeds that both Sony and Canon offer to combat ES banding.
I’m also curious to see how the Canon R3 compares as well. Interesting times indeed.
p.3 #20 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 – The 10 main differences"
LBJ2 wrote:
This video has multiple problems.
First he concludes that since the Nikon has a flash sync speed of 1/200 sec it has an electronic shutter transit time of 5msec. That is clearly not possible. In order to take flash photos at 1/200 sec the duration between when the first curtain fully opens and the second curtain starts moving to close, there must be time for the flash pulse to reach full power and the return to zero. At full flash power that may take 0.50 msec to 0.75 msec. That means the curtains take at most 4.25 msec to fully reset or readout the sensor. For example the A1 has an ES scan duration of 1/237 sec., (A1 ES Curtain Speed), That means it takes 4.22 msec to transit the sensor. At a flash sync speed of 1/200 sec (5.0 msec) that leaves 0.78 msec for the flash pulse including any jitter. Even if the flash pulse was zero width it would not be possible to get to 1/250 sec flash sync speed. The Nikon seems to be able to get to 1/250 sec for low power flash settings, which indicates its ES curtains are moving faster. They much be less that 4 msec transit time. There is some unsubstantiated claims of 1/270 sec = 3.70 msec, but there are also unsubstantiated claims of 1/250 sec for the A1, which are wrong. Regardless, it is an easy measurement, so once the Z9 is available it should only take about 15 minutes to make the measurement.
The other surprising thing in the video is his iPhone video showing the mechanical shutter moving from the top of the sensor to the bottom. I believe he said that was done on a Z7II. Every digital camera that I know of, the shutter (mechanical or electronic) scans the image from the top to the bottom. You can see that is the case by looking at the rolling shutter distortion. For example he shows trolley cars moving across the image and they appear to lean backwards. That is the rolling shutter distortion. You get that from any slow shutter, mechanical or electronic, That distortion is because the image of the top of the trolley is captured before the image of the bottom of the trolley is captured. But recall the lens inverts the image on the sensor. So when you scan the image from top to bottom you are scanning the sensor from the bottom to the top. But his video of the mechanical shutter shows the shutter moving from top to bottom!! Does the Nikon Z7II work differently from other cameras? Is this true for all Nikon digital cameras?
