p.1 #1 · A1 - Focusing on Eyes vs. Eyelashes at f1.2 or f1.4?
For those using the A1, how reliably does it focus the 35mm GM f1.4 or 50mm f1.2, wide open, on the eyes vs. eyelashes? . . . How does this compare to other cameras you have used with f1.4/f1.2 lenses, such as the A7RIV or A9 (I or II)? Thanks!
p.1 #2 · A1 - Focusing on Eyes vs. Eyelashes at f1.2 or f1.4?
httivals wrote:
For those using the A1, how reliably does it focus the 35mm GM f1.4 or 50mm f1.2, wide open, on the eyes vs. eyelashes? . . . How does this compare to other cameras you have used with f1.4/f1.2 lenses, such as the A7RIV or A9 (I or II)? Thanks!
I have yet to find images where it missed the eye with 35 GM or 50 GM (experience over numerous weddings and portrait sessions).
However, I don't shoot portraits with the 35 or 50 around MFD. I don't have issues with A9ii either. The A7riv is slightly less accurate (but not a problem at all). The only camera which showed this phenomenon you describe in the past for us regularly was the A73.
p.1 #3 · A1 - Focusing on Eyes vs. Eyelashes at f1.2 or f1.4?
Well, I'd say that you'll be safer if you don't expect a major improvement in that area.
I'm one of those weird people that enjoy (too) shallow DoF in portraits and I still run into the issue from time to time.
p.1 #4 · A1 - Focusing on Eyes vs. Eyelashes at f1.2 or f1.4?
httivals wrote:
For those using the A1, how reliably does it focus the 35mm GM f1.4 or 50mm f1.2, wide open, on the eyes vs. eyelashes? . . . How does this compare to other cameras you have used with f1.4/f1.2 lenses, such as the A7RIV or A9 (I or II)? Thanks!
I assume you read or heard somewhere that the A1 has a tendency to focus on the eyelashes.
This has not been my experience. Especially with wider focal lengths like 35 and 50mm.
I don’t know where this reputation came from, but I think it originated when Sony first announce the camera. They released a few sample photos on their website. One of which, was this image below. The focus is on the eyelashes. I think in large part because she has on white mascara. Then someone said that the A1 can’t focus on the eyes. But focuses on eyelashes. Which spread to forums, YouTube, etc…And like many things in this day and age. If you say something enough times, it becomes fact.
I haven’t found this to be true at all. The A1 has some of the most accurate focus of any camera I’ve ever used. I don’t shoot portraits day in and day out though. Perhaps someone that shoots more portraits can chime in.
p.1 #5 · A1 - Focusing on Eyes vs. Eyelashes at f1.2 or f1.4?
httivals wrote:
For those using the A1, how reliably does it focus the 35mm GM f1.4 or 50mm f1.2, wide open, on the eyes vs. eyelashes?
I'm curious. Can you point to a sample of a decent image where the DOF is so shallow that this is an issue? I'd expect that with such a shallow DOF half the face including the nose would have to be OOF? Is that your desired effect?
p.1 #6 · A1 - Focusing on Eyes vs. Eyelashes at f1.2 or f1.4?
I had a9ii, a7r4 and now A1 and 35mm f1.4GM. Never seen a case (in my shooting) where eye-lashes were sharp in focus but eye (pupil) was not in any of these 3 cameras. I think all these 3 cameras focused equally fine on the human eye; perhaps A1 tracks a bit/sticks better. No personal experience with f1.2 lenses though.
Although not at f1.4/f1.2, you may find content at time-stamp 16m relevant in the following video:
p.1 #7 · A1 - Focusing on Eyes vs. Eyelashes at f1.2 or f1.4?
jigesh wrote:
I had a9ii, a7r4 and now A1 and 35mm f1.4GM. Never seen a case (in my shooting) where eye-lashes were sharp in focus but eye (pupil) was not in any of these 3 cameras. I think all these 3 cameras focused equally fine on the human eye; perhaps A1 tracks a bit/sticks better. No personal experience with f1.2 lenses though.
Although not at f1.4/f1.2, you may find content at time-stamp 16m relevant in the following video:
Well, his example has close to no eye lashes, so I'd say it would be pretty hard to demonstrate the issue this way . Mark does say though that he would question one's technique if one uses such a shallow depth of field for portraits. I'd say that's a pretty condescending approach to the issue. It's more of an "artistic choice" for me .
I take quite a few pictures of my kids this way, e.g. when they are focused (ha-ha) on something, ideally a screen of some sorts, when you can then see the reflection in the eye if focused correctly. The reflection unfortunately cannot be seen on the eye-lashes .
Still, this is a pretty specific usecase and I simply acknowledge that eyeAF was not designed to cater for it (i.e. this does not affect "normal" portrait shooting IMHO, but on the other hand was visible a bit on some of the A1 promo shots...). Most of the time it works alright, I just take a couple of shots and one of them will be "close enough". I think it's also the same mechanism that can make the focus sometimes miss a bit when for example using eyeAF on a bird that's twitching between branches (the branches being in front of the bird).
To conclude with something more meaningful than my random musings, @GabrielPhoto touches on this subject in one of his latest videos (on A7RIV though AFAIR).
p.1 #8 · A1 - Focusing on Eyes vs. Eyelashes at f1.2 or f1.4?
I haven't owned the A7R4, but I shot the 50/1.2 GM on my A1, and it was always dead-on accurate. If there were any unsharp/blurry photos it was 99.9% due to operator error.
p.1 #9 · A1 - Focusing on Eyes vs. Eyelashes at f1.2 or f1.4?
j4nu wrote:
Well, his example has close to no eye lashes, so I'd say it would be pretty hard to demonstrate the issue this way . Mark does say though that he would question one's technique if one uses such a shallow depth of field for portraits. I'd say that's a pretty condescending approach to the issue. It's more of an "artistic choice" for me .
I take quite a few pictures of my kids this way, e.g. when they are focused (ha-ha) on something, ideally a screen of some sorts, when you can then see the reflection in the eye if focused correctly. The reflection unfortunately cannot be seen on the eye-lashes .
Still, this is a pretty specific usecase and I simply acknowledge that eyeAF was not designed to cater for it (i.e. this does not affect "normal" portrait shooting IMHO, but on the other hand was visible a bit on some of the A1 promo shots...). Most of the time it works alright, I just take a couple of shots and one of them will be "close enough". I think it's also the same mechanism that can make the focus sometimes miss a bit when for example using eyeAF on a bird that's twitching between branches (the branches being in front of the bird).
To conclude with something more meaningful than my random musings, @GabrielPhoto@ touches on this subject in one of his latest videos (on A7RIV though AFAIR)....Show more →
Indeed and I plan to test the A1 vs the R5 both with native lenses to see how they behave. I always find is easy to blame the user but we shall see soon when I test both cameras side by side.
Yes Mark can be condescending indeed...there are lots of big egos out there that don't understand this is an art and nobody has any right to say things have to be done X or Y way and no other way.
All I can say at this time is the R5 with my Sigma 105mm 1.4 is pretty much perfect with Eye AF which was shocking based on the first time I tried the R5 months before I finally got my own.
p.1 #10 · A1 - Focusing on Eyes vs. Eyelashes at f1.2 or f1.4?
The only time I've seen this was when I rented the 50GM and I was shooting it at 1.2 on my a7III at pretty close to MFD. The camera was missing the eye, this was also with animal eye af. Once I stopped down to 1.4 it was fine. I can't say I've had it miss the eye on my 35 GM.
p.1 #13 · A1 - Focusing on Eyes vs. Eyelashes at f1.2 or f1.4?
On all cameras and a very fast lenses you need to rock back and fourth slightly while shooting multiple frames to ensure you always have a shot with focus where you want it. With some people and some conditions the camera will prefer the eyelash. So it's an issue that is more technique than technology.
p.1 #14 · A1 - Focusing on Eyes vs. Eyelashes at f1.2 or f1.4?
I'll show a picture of what I meant, not exactly eyelashAF but I think the underlying cause is the same:
Focus point:
100% crop:
These are with 35GM at ƒ/2.0, 35.0mm, 1/400s, 100ISO, Tracking.
I agree with the comment above, it's just the nature of the game, eyeAF is not infallible. To be honest, I don't think Canon or Nikon would fare better.
In the example above, it's probably a combination of things:
* rather harsh, strong backlight
* kid twitching
* the hat covering the eyes a bit.
Funnily enough, this shot and the previous one are similarly misfocused, but the one before, which is focused on the other eye (the one partially covered) is sharp...
p.1 #16 · A1 - Focusing on Eyes vs. Eyelashes at f1.2 or f1.4?
Well, thank you but A1 does not miss like that.
It's not a coincidence that 2 shots out of 3 are misfocused while using eyeAF here-> the focus frame/point seems to be overlapping with something in front of the eye (be it eyelash or a hat, brow, stray hair, etc.) and front-focuses because of it. That's at least how I explain to myself the eyelashAF phenomenon (I know it's not the perfect example, but I believe the underlying cause is the same).
p.1 #17 · A1 - Focusing on Eyes vs. Eyelashes at f1.2 or f1.4?
What we do know is that all the Sony mirrorless focus systems including the a1 likes to focus on vertical contrast more that horizontal contrast. That cap has some pretty distinct vertical contrast that may have drawn to focus point to it. It never made it to the eyelash. I have experienced eyelash focus, and I think it may be caused by the same proclivity for verticals.
i am not trying to disagree, just trying to put the pieces together.
I also shoot the a1 as my camera, and the 35 GM frequently. It is my favorite AF lens.
p.1 #18 · A1 - Focusing on Eyes vs. Eyelashes at f1.2 or f1.4?
j4nu wrote:
Well, thank you but A1 does not miss like that.
It's not a coincidence that 2 shots out of 3 are misfocused while using eyeAF here-> the focus frame/point seems to be overlapping with something in front of the eye (be it eyelash or a hat, brow, stray hair, etc.) and front-focuses because of it. That's at least how I explain to myself the eyelashAF phenomenon (I know it's not the perfect example, but I believe the underlying cause is the same).
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1bwana1 wrote:
What we do know is that all the Sony mirrorless focus systems including the a1 likes to focus on vertical contrast more that horizontal contrast. That cap has some pretty distinct vertical contrast that may have drawn to focus point to it. It never made it to the eyelash. I have experienced eyelash focus, and I think it may be caused by the same proclivity for verticals.
i am not trying to disagree, just trying to put the pieces together.
I also shoot the a1 as my camera, and the 35 GM frequently. It is my favorite AF lens.
You guys are talking about the possibility of eyelash AF while the OP is talking about the tendency. What we can say from these individual experience is that eyelash AF is more of a rare exception rather than something A1 will do consistently.
With that said, even if we have a few guys posted their eyelash photos with the A1, it would be hardly conclusive without knowing the exact conditions. Any camera can fail, whether it's the environment or the user. But overall, I say we have a lot of happy A1 owners here.
You guys are talking about the possibility of eyelash AF while the OP is talking about the tendency. What we can say from these individual experience is that eyelash AF is more of a rare exception rather than something A1 will do consistently.
With that said, even if we have a few guys posted their eyelash photos with the A1, it would be hardly conclusive without knowing the exact conditions. Any camera can fail, whether it's the environment or the user. But overall, I say we have a lot of happy A1 owners here.
I hope I didn't come off that way... I just wanted to say that the "issue" can still happen if you use eyeAF with shallow DoF coupled with additional adverse conditions (difficult angle, backlight, etc.) and that I don't see much of an improvement in that regard compared to my previous cam (A7III) .
p.1 #20 · A1 - Focusing on Eyes vs. Eyelashes at f1.2 or f1.4?
I shot Sony since my first nex6 and still will be showcasing sony and now canon on my YouTube channel.
I can tell you, the R5 with the same 105mm 1.4 lens with the same shooting style since it's still me, focuses way way more accurate on the actual eye than the A7r iv or any other sony before that did for me.
To have it miss the eye is almost unheard of. That is one of the main reasons I did the switch to it as my main camera. So is not technique as I'm the same person and if anything, I am still learning the new camera while I am very experienced with sony so if anything, Sony as at an advantage in my comparison.
Now of course the bulk of my shots were with the 105mm art and others with an adapted 200mm 2.8 so could that be it? Maybe, but others have reported this with native glass as well.
I do plan to test the A1 vs the R5 or R6 vs A9 using either 50mm 1.2 lenses or wait for the 70-200 GM2 so that both cameras are using more recent glass.
I would prefer to test 85mm lenses but the GM won't be fair vs the newer canon 1.2
Regards
dcmiller wrote:
On all cameras and a very fast lenses you need to rock back and fourth slightly while shooting multiple frames to ensure you always have a shot with focus where you want it. With some people and some conditions the camera will prefer the eyelash. So it's an issue that is more technique than technology.
. Mark does say though that he would question one's technique if one uses such a shallow depth of field for portraits. I'd say that's a pretty condescending approach to the issue. It's more of an "artistic choice" for me 
(on A7RIV though AFAIR).
