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Archive 2021 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?

  
 
TeamSpeed
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p.3 #1 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


I still sort of use my R6 like I do my 5D4 in that regard, I focus and recompose on both, but this way, the R6 will follow the subject/model as they move and I can just keep the composition as I want it. I always have my Eye AF set up with a starting AF point.

I never felt like I could rely on outer AF points on the DSLRs, so I would keep my AF near the center (center or just off center) with the 5D4 and others. On the R6, I will now move my AF a bit further off center to help with this.

I do not have the camera trying to find eyes in the scene ever, I want to control exactly where it is looking for eyes. Just a personal preference...



Nov 01, 2021 at 07:21 PM
AmbientMike
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p.3 #2 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


I can never get the box exactly in the right spot especially using teles in LV on the SL2 it seems . I don't see how I would on the EVF in the R series either.

So then I have to focus and recompose making the limitless focus points at least somewhat moot



Nov 01, 2021 at 07:53 PM
JohnSil
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p.3 #3 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


TeamSpeed wrote:
I still sort of use my R6 like I do my 5D4 in that regard, I focus and recompose on both, but this way, the R6 will follow the subject/model as they move and I can just keep the composition as I want it. I always have my Eye AF set up with a starting AF point.

I never felt like I could rely on outer AF points on the DSLRs, so I would keep my AF near the center (center or just off center) with the 5D4 and others. On the R6, I will now move my AF a bit
...Show more

I can see some advantages to doing a single point to start the eye follow process especially if there are more than one pair of eyes in the frame.
For me there is most often only one pair of eyes in which case I assume it locks on the nearest eye?
BUT what does it do when there is NO eyes like in a landscape or does it automatically default to a central point system or maybe some previously assigned AF pattern or do I have to turn the EAF off in the menu?
John



Nov 01, 2021 at 08:48 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.3 #4 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


I have the * set up exactly like my 5d4 for times eye AF isn’t good for the shoot.


Nov 01, 2021 at 10:31 PM
Andrew J
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p.3 #5 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


mdvaden wrote:
Although going from 5DS R to R5 would probably lose detail for me, it's close enough like splitting hairs, and I think I'd like to get an R5 within a year. Personally, I like the exposure simulated in an EVF. It's a big help for me.

The R5 will make a difference for the primes you mentioned.



With the spot on focus and razor sharp ES shots, the R5 seems like it has 5 more MP not 5 less.



Nov 02, 2021 at 01:28 AM
mdvaden
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p.3 #6 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


Andrew J wrote:
With the spot on focus and razor sharp ES shots, the R5 seems like it has 5 more MP not 5 less.


With live view manual focus in the redwoods and a tripod and cable trigger plus lack of AA filter, the 5DS R will match an R5. Especially for the print sizes I'm getting requests for.

One distillery had one file 18,000 x 18,000 pixels printed 10 ft. x 10 ft. and it would have been nice to see it in-person.






Edited on Nov 02, 2021 at 02:24 AM · View previous versions



Nov 02, 2021 at 02:14 AM
JohnSil
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p.3 #7 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


Andrew J wrote:
With the spot on focus and razor sharp ES shots, the R5 seems like it has 5 more MP not 5 less.


Andrew, funny you should mention that because my 5Ds and the 5ll before it, when the focus was Dead-On which wasn't always the case, the images were excruciatingly sharp but that was not always the case. I'm really looking forward to seeing what an 85mm can do on the eyes at f1.2. To see just how often it's dead on!!!
John




Nov 02, 2021 at 02:18 AM
clough
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p.3 #8 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


JohnSil wrote:
C, yes that is a big deal. I hadn’t even considered how long it takes and how often I have to tell my models to, “hang on a second”, because I have to move a focus pt.
I actually explain the process at the start so they already know it’s gonna happen.
So that will be welcome relief!
John


And I hate to say it for those who just recently ponied up for the expensive r5, but the even more expensive r3 with eye control (not just eye tracking) will take the "you and your model don't have to wait" experience to a new level. The r3 is going to have a good number of photographers asking themselves just how important that 45 mpix is vs. the superior eye control focusing of the r3 and its 24 mpix.

You'll believe it when you see it, so to speak. Pick up the camera, look, half press, and fire. This is going to open up so many more creative opportunities. Example: You look and shoot a model. Immediately thereafter, you look at what's behind the model, half press, and grab that, creating a creative shot in which the foreground model is now slightly out of focus. All of this happens in 2 seconds.

Once the r3 is on the scene, you're going to hate the idea of moving those infernal focus points around with your fingers or a joystick. Pick up the camera, look, half press, fire. Taking way that step of moving a focus point sounds small, but it's going to feel huge because it allows you to use the camera as an extension of your eye, freeing you up to focus almost entirely on composition and creativity.



Nov 02, 2021 at 06:32 AM
clough
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p.3 #9 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


JohnSil wrote:
I want to be able to post in the R5 images thread!!! LoL
No, just kidding!
Some background...., I saw no need to replace my current cameras with a ML any time soon.
But when shooting sports, mostly bicycle racing with the 1D probably 20% of the time the camera locks focus on the jersey and the face/eyes are soft. If its a really critical shot like a finish line I pre-focus and turn off the AF to be sure I get the shot and use high fps.
A couple of weeks ago I did an outdoor model shoot with the 5s and had
...Show more

If you can wait a bit, you'll want to replace the 1DX with the r3.



Nov 02, 2021 at 07:03 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.3 #10 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


clough wrote:
And I hate to say it for those who just recently ponied up for the expensive r5, but the even more expensive r3 with eye control (not just eye tracking) will take the "you and your model don't have to wait" experience to a new level. The r3 is going to have a good number of photographers asking themselves just how important that 45 mpix is vs. the superior eye control focusing of the r3 and its 24 mpix.

You'll believe it when you see it, so to speak. Pick up the camera, look, half press, and fire. This is going
...Show more

Superior Eye AF is independent of resolution... Canon chose 24Mpx due to their own needs, on the R3, not ours.

I personally don't ever really change my AF point around either. I just put the point on the model, it locks on the eyes, and I shoot away. Nothing too terribly exciting would change should I get the R3. Also most of my portraiture involve more than one person (more family portraits), so I don't fit the generalities you laid out.

Sports, which the R3 is really being targeted it seems, also doesn't fit the scenario you lay out. My camera already focuses on the player I want while I focus on composition, so again, I don't feel that there could be a $6500 improvement to be made there.

The R5 (topic of the thread) is a more compelling body for what I shoot, and would mirror the R6 very nicely, for much less money.



Nov 02, 2021 at 07:42 AM
Andrew J
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p.3 #11 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


clough wrote:
If you can wait a bit, you'll want to replace the 1DX with the r3.


Telling people who have resisted spending $3800 for a year and a half, to get a $6,000+ body is a little out there.



Nov 02, 2021 at 08:29 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #12 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


clough wrote:
And I hate to say it for those who just recently ponied up for the expensive r5, but the even more expensive r3 with eye control (not just eye tracking) will take the "you and your model don't have to wait" experience to a new level. The r3 is going to have a good number of photographers asking themselves just how important that 45 mpix is vs. the superior eye control focusing of the r3 and its 24 mpix.

You'll believe it when you see it, so to speak. Pick up the camera, look, half press, and fire. This is going
...Show more

But, but, but...

Then there will be the R1! And then it will be time for an updated R5! And Sony will come out with something new! And Nikon! And...

New technology is usually. a good thing, but maybe not quite a life-changing great as we hope. (If it really were that great... we'd be able to keep using it for more than three years without needing to buy another replacement, right?)

With few exceptions, those with good, functional cameras who imagine that The Next New Thing is going to Change Their Lives Forever would not be making a mistake if they went just a bit slower on this stuff. In the great majority of cases, it isn't like your current gear is _really_ holding you back that much, nor is the new stuff likely to change your life as radically as the marketing suggests.

Is there a time to upgrade? Certainly! When your old gear is actually getting long in the tooth, really starts to hold you back in significant ways, or is becoming unreliable it is time. Or, I guess, if you just like buying new stuff for the thrill of acquisition. Or if you are making so much money from your photography that you can afford to play with all the newest things.

Am I going to move to a newer Canon mirrorless system? At some point, almost certainly. The newer systems are better than the old ones, and when it is time to move on to something new, I will do so. But is my current gear actually holding me back? Not really.

One final thing. I usually not a proponent of brand switching. However, with new mirrorless cameras bringing whole new systems of lenses and other accessories along for the ride and the prospect (for many folks) that buying the camera will lead to replacing a whole bunch of lenses... it is a good time to think more carefully and more broadly about what we are committing ourselves to when we get that mirrorless camera. Back when the EF lenses continued to work without adapters on that new DSLR, the upgrade costs involved the camera, perhaps some batteries, maybe some new tripod brackets. But now that purchase brings the potential for replacing an entire fleet of lenses, too. Proceed carefully and thoughtfully!

YMMV.

Dan



Nov 02, 2021 at 08:39 AM
mdvaden
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p.3 #13 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


gdanmitchell wrote:
New technology is usually. a good thing, but maybe not quite a life-changing great as we hope. (If it really were that great... we'd be able to keep using it for more than three years without needing to buy another replacement, right?)


The "not quite" thing came to mind yesterday. Sorting gear, I decided to llist my Godox 360 lights and maybe order 2 AD200 lights or AD 300 that have a battery inside to streamline the bag, A few hours researching prices and videos, I realized the 360 lights are probably best for me.due to trigger preference, infrequency of use, etc.. So the AD200 would not be life changing, nor life improving even though I imagined for a while that it may.





Nov 02, 2021 at 09:50 AM
jedibrain
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p.3 #14 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


gdanmitchell wrote:
One final thing. I usually not a proponent of brand switching. However, with new mirrorless cameras bringing whole new systems of lenses and other accessories along for the ride and the prospect (for many folks) that buying the camera will lead to replacing a whole bunch of lenses... it is a good time to think more carefully and more broadly about what we are committing ourselves to when we get that mirrorless camera. Back when the EF lenses continued to work without adapters on that new DSLR, the upgrade costs involved the camera, perhaps some batteries, maybe some new tripod
...Show more

I'm sure this last point was a major reason why Canon decided not to hold back the functionality of the EF-RF adapted lenses. Moving the the new system only has to cost you a body plus $100 adapter.

---------------------------------------------

mdvaden wrote:
The "not quite" thing came to mind yesterday. Sorting gear, I decided to llist my Godox 360 lights and maybe order 2 AD200 lights or AD 300 that have a battery inside to streamline the bag, A few hours researching prices and videos, I realized the 360 lights are probably best for me.due to trigger preference, infrequency of use, etc.. So the AD200 would not be life changing, nor life improving even though I imagined for a while that it may.



Seems to me like most of the time, body wise especially, you can easily skip a generation. I skipped the 5D2 and 5D4, happily shooting my 5D until the 5D3 finally won me over with its heavily upgraded AF. And the 5D4 had a lot of nice improvements, but just didn't seem worth the cost to me. R6 comes along, and now its a huge leap from the 5D3.

I don't know if that applies to lighting as well. Lenses can sometimes show a big improvement one version to the next, but they seem to come farther apart. I'm still on the first generation of stuff I've had in most cases. I did upgrade to the RF24-105L, which was a massive improvement over the EF v1 I had been using (and which was a nice lens, my favorite in fact). And i upgraded the 100-400 to the vII as well to get the higher speed capabilities of the R6 body. The 100-500 seems awesome, but again not enough better than my 100-400vII to justify the cost of the upgrade.

Brian



Nov 02, 2021 at 10:05 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.3 #15 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


I have the 5dsr, R5, m5 - and my priorities are 60% landscape, 30% pretty still big animals and 10% other (family, travel shots).

I have tried my EF85L v2 with 5DSR before and have been challenged by focus - really tight dof, micro focus adjustment needed, and movement challenging. I was impressed while shooting a baby at home on the ease of use of R5. My 600v2, 200-400 and 100-400v1 work as well on R5 as 5DSR or my old retired 5DIII or 7d2.

With respect to mostly still bears and moose - I don't really notice the difference. They don't move enough. But the extra stop of dynamic range means shooting in the day is easier.

What I have not enjoyed in R5 vs 5DSR is the much higher need for sharpening with AA on R5.

The biggest reason I switched is that the R5 is way lighter than my 5dsr for backpacking. And I can use the built in flip in adapter to filter my ts17. Since I got the R5, I have not used the 5DSR because its better to just use one body for muscle memory/weight and R5 can do it all at pretty close 5DSR.

Not sure all of this helps but the R5 is the best AF/dynamic range/fps in the canon line. I would have preferred 100mpx over the fps and Af for my purposes but the dynamic range is good. But my assessment is that it could replace 5DS and idx vwhatever - easily.

I suggest you make your decision on fps, buffer, mpx, weight - the obvious big differences. Eg if you need/want 45mpx for sports (or less weight with one light body) so you can print or crop bigger - get the R5. But 5DS and IDX are good enough otherwise with skill.



Nov 02, 2021 at 11:31 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #16 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


jedibrain wrote:
I'm sure this last point was a major reason why Canon decided not to hold back the functionality of the EF-RF adapted lenses. Moving the the new system only has to cost you a body plus $100 adapter.


I think they (smartly!) adopted that strategy based on Sony's success with it when they introduced their full frame mirrorless bodies with virtually no lenses... and most folks were relying on adapted Canon lenses.

Let me (again) preface what follows by acknowledging that I believe the new mirrorless cameras to be better than their DSLR predecessors. The point I'm trying to make is that this better-ness is measured against performance of some existing DSLRs that is truly excellent — we're mostly looking at comparing really good with a bit more really good rather than comparing OK with outstanding.

With that in mind, one of the reasons for moving to the R system is to have access to the improved and more versatile R lenses: long zooms with larger focal length ranges, zooms with larger apertures, lenses claiming better optical performance, small size and weight, reportedly better AF performance and all the rest.

While one can stick an adapter on an R camera and continue to use EF lenses, that eliminates the new R lenses and the advantages of the new RF mount as an impetus for switching.

So, again, my advice to most folks who wouldn't be replacing their existing DSLRs with a new DSLR if the mirrorless cameras had not been introduced is... go slow here.

Scott Stoness wrote:
The biggest reason I switched is that the R5 is way lighter than my 5dsr for backpacking.


As a fellow backpacking photographer, how are you dealing with the increased draw on battery power? Are you carrying the same number of batteries with the R5 that you did with the 5DsR? Are you using a solar charging system and continuing to carry the same number of batteries?

I agree that camera/lens/tripod bulk (plus the need to carry other accessories) is a pretty important consideration when backpacking.

Dan



Nov 02, 2021 at 12:11 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.3 #17 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


Pesonally, I have to keep 50% more batteries around now for events. I usually ever only brought 2 extras, I now bring 3 plus the one in the camera. I have never needed more at this point for a day long affair.

I also have a 300W Rockpals portable power pack I bring, and it will charge up the batteries via USB or AC 110v, so I can always have that as an option. That gets charged via a 100W solar panel once it is depleted. We charge all our phones, etc off it as well. There is a PQ usb port too, where you could just plug in your R5/R6 to charge the battery it is using.

Rockpals is having a sale too, for those that like solar panels and power banks keeping you off the grid or giving you options on the road.

https://www.rockpals.com/pages/deal

Nice products...



Nov 02, 2021 at 02:33 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #18 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


TeamSpeed wrote:
Pesonally, I have to keep 50% more batteries around now for events. I usually ever only brought 2 extras, I now bring 3 plus the one in the camera. I have never needed more at this point for a day long affair.

I also have a 300W Rockpals portable power pack I bring, and it will charge up the batteries via USB or AC 110v, so I can always have that as an option. That gets charged via a 100W solar panel once it is depleted. We charge all our phones, etc off it as well. There is a PQ
...Show more

I was thinking about this particularly in the backpacking context, where things get a bit tricky. Some factors in play:

1. These days you can bring some sort of solar panel charging system, and they are lighter and more sophisticated than they used to be. For example, my older system required me to charge its battery and then charge my camera batteries from that system battery. Today I can charge batteries directly from the panel using a USB charger. But the panel and cabling still add some weight and bulk... and cost.

2. Alternatively, one can just carry more batteries. This can be smaller/lighter and less expensive than buying/carrying a solar charging system... up to a point. It is probably the better option on trips where you won't use more than, perhaps, four batteries.

3. The increased battery draw in the mirrorless system can alter your calculations if you are used to using a DSLR in the normal way. On the other hand, if you use live view for most of your landscape photography, as I do, the difference between the battery life of a DSLR extensively used in live view and that of a mirrorless system may be pretty small.

All ways of lightening the load are important for backpacking photographers. (The old saying: "Watch the ounces and the pounds take care of themselves.") I usually reduce the number of lenses I carry, and I tend to carry versions with smaller maximum apertures since they are smaller. I use a somewhat lighter tripod and head. But it still adds up!

Dan



Nov 02, 2021 at 02:51 PM
clough
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p.3 #19 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


gdanmitchell wrote:
But, but, but...

Then there will be the R1! And then it will be time for an updated R5! And Sony will come out with something new! And Nikon! And...

New technology is usually. a good thing, but maybe not quite a life-changing great as we hope. (If it really were that great... we'd be able to keep using it for more than three years without needing to buy another replacement, right?)

With few exceptions, those with good, functional cameras who imagine that The Next New Thing is going to Change Their Lives Forever would not be making a mistake if they went
...Show more

Well said.

I actually hate buying new stuff, not so much because of the money but because buying new stuff usually entails a bunch of ancillary activities that may or may not get done (but should get done, such as selling stuff I no longer use).

I have found, though, that since getting an R, I usually do not want to work with my older cameras because the eye tracking makes my job so much easier. I suspect the eye control will be a feature that also will want to make me not want to use older cameras.

In my experience, we aren't always on a leaps-and-bounds feature trajectory as we are now w/ this relatively new mirrorless tech.

Best thing might be simply to wait with your EF lenses and cameras until the mirrorless tech matures.

Edited on Nov 02, 2021 at 03:29 PM · View previous versions



Nov 02, 2021 at 03:24 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.3 #20 · Should I Replace My 1Dxll and 5Ds w/The R5?


gdanmitchell wrote:
I was thinking about this particularly in the backpacking context, where things get a bit tricky. Some factors in play:

1. These days you can bring some sort of solar panel charging system, and they are lighter and more sophisticated than they used to be. For example, my older system required me to charge its battery and then charge my camera batteries from that system battery. Today I can charge batteries directly from the panel using a USB charger. But the panel and cabling still add some weight and bulk... and cost.

2. Alternatively, one can just carry more batteries. This can
...Show more

Unfortunately solar panels still aren't super efficient. So panels small enough to pack and travel with will deliver maybe 40-60 watts. That is enough to charge phones and run a USB based LP-E6 charger, but it won't charge the batteries very quickly. If I was backpacking, I would just buy twice the batteries I would normally ever need, get those fully charged and pack them personally. They will take up less bulk than a solar panel, like you stated. 4 LP-E6 batteries can fit in any of the little nooks and crannies of a backpack.

For sporting events, we will camp out a particular area, and then I lay out the panel and charge up the 300w bank, then charge everything off that. Something similar could happen for a base camp, I suppose, but usually the light is less than adequate when you set up a base camp since most of the activity is usually during the day. If that doesn't work, our truck has AC and DC outlets, which means I can charge the bank from that too.

I have my R6 set up in eco mode, and very aggressively. The EVF is all I use, and it goes out pretty quickly after I take my face away from the back of the camera. I would love it if the EVF start up time from face detection to display was shortened a bit, there is a small lag now that can be frustrating. However in this set up, I usually can go quite far on a single battery. No GPS, no Wifi, no picture review, lens IS turned off unless needed, etc.



Nov 02, 2021 at 03:24 PM
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