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Archive 2021 · Cobalt Profiles

  
 
rdeloe
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p.21 #1 · Cobalt Profiles


These are very good profiles. I don't know if they're better than all the others, and I can't say if they're faithful to the film emulations. But it doesn't matter. They provide a much better starting point for the times I do colour.

I'm mostly a black and white photographer, so there's not much here for me in terms of black and white because I'm not interested in emulating a Leica Monochrom. However, I did buy the Smart collection and its Monochrome profile is slightly different in some positive ways from Adobe Monochrome (which is already very good). The linear and scientific monochrome profiles might also be handy for edge cases.

But for times when I do need to do colour, the Cobalt profiles are excellent. The standard and neutral profiles are a big improvement over Adobe Color, and the additional base profiles in the Smart collection (e.g., Vivid, Landscape) should not be ignored. I'm not really into film emulations, but I really do like the Kodak Porta 160, 400 and 800 Linear profiles.

Whether or not you see a difference, and how much of a difference you see, does depend strongly on the scene. Here's one example that contrasts some profiles nicely. The only setting change after import was crop and application of the profiles.


Notice the colour of the blossom opening at bottom-left in the images. In reality, this rose does not look like it does in the Adobe Color version (garish and over-saturated). The Cobalt Neutral and Standard profiles are much more faithful to the actual colour of the rose; they look identical in these little images. However, skin reveals the differences more clearly. The blossom that is opening actually has texture and detail in the Neutral & Standard images. I don't always like what Kodak Porta 400 Linear does, but it works well here. The colours in the Porta 160 Linear profile are not "realistic", but more often than not I like the results I'm getting with this profile; it was worth the price of the pack to me.

Anyway, just a few quick thoughts on these profiles. As someone who does not use 3rd party profiles and presets or other tools in black and white work, I'm pleasantly surprised at how quick and easy it is to get to a good starting point in colour work with these Cobalt profiles.



Jul 15, 2021 at 02:43 PM
Michael H
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p.21 #2 · Cobalt Profiles


@rdeloe -what body was used for these images? I think you have shown some great advantage in the profile. The Adobe standard highlights something I see far too often on Leica DNG files.

As a side note, I'd love to see more examples of DNG conversions. I have pretty much migrated to C1 21, and would love to see DNG samples from C1. Maybe I missed it somewhere in this long thread?



Jul 15, 2021 at 03:30 PM
rdeloe
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p.21 #3 · Cobalt Profiles


Michael H wrote:
@rdeloe@ -what body was used for these images? I think you have shown some great advantage in the profile. The Adobe standard highlights something I see far too often on Leica DNG files.

As a side note, I'd love to see more examples of DNG conversions. I have pretty much migrated to C1 21, and would love to see DNG samples from C1. Maybe I missed it somewhere in this long thread?


Michael, those are heavily cropped files from a Fuji GFX 50R.

It is a long thread! I wasn't looking for DNG or C1 so can't recall. Hopefully one of the other posters will have some examples that show what you need.



Jul 15, 2021 at 03:33 PM
Michael H
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p.21 #4 · Cobalt Profiles


rdeloe wrote:
Michael, those are heavily cropped files from a Fuji GFX 50R.

It is a long thread! I wasn't looking for DNG or C1 so can't recall. Hopefully one of the other posters will have some examples that show what you need.


Thank you! And sorry, I meant to direct that last part to @Ulysseita but left that off.



Jul 15, 2021 at 03:38 PM
Ulysseita
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p.21 #5 · Cobalt Profiles


Michael H wrote:
Thank you! And sorry, I meant to direct that last part to @Ulysseita@ but left that off.





Sony A7r3

Generic C1
https://i.imgur.com/CPbYPoT.jpg

ProStandard C1
https://i.imgur.com/J6FAaDw.jpg

Cobalt Neutral daylight C1
https://i.imgur.com/F8Bnj6T.jpg

generic on top, Cobalt in the bottom
https://i.imgur.com/G0eotMg.jpg


Leica M9 C1
https://i.imgur.com/2tQil6J.jpg

Cobalt Neutral daylight C1
https://i.imgur.com/6ldOhKP.jpg

generic on top, Cobalt in the bottom
https://i.imgur.com/1KSypmW.jpg



Jul 15, 2021 at 04:23 PM
Michael H
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p.21 #6 · Cobalt Profiles


Ulysseita wrote:


Sony A7r3

Generic C1
https://i.imgur.com/CPbYPoT.jpg

ProStandard C1
https://i.imgur.com/J6FAaDw.jpg

Cobalt Neutral daylight C1
https://i.imgur.com/F8Bnj6T.jpg

generic on top, Cobalt in the bottom
https://i.imgur.com/G0eotMg.jpg

Leica M9 C1
https://i.imgur.com/2tQil6J.jpg

Cobalt Neutral daylight C1
https://i.imgur.com/6ldOhKP.jpg

generic on top, Cobalt in the bottom
https://i.imgur.com/1KSypmW.jpg


Thank you!



Jul 15, 2021 at 05:47 PM
snappu
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p.21 #7 · Cobalt Profiles


I bought the Cobalt base pack for my Sony A1 and I agree with the other posters, the Standard and Neutral profiles are league's better than the Adobe profiles. Standard has become my default profile for any photo that includes people.

Still pondering on what to purchase next. Fuji Digital/Film, CCD Fever, or Kodachrome are intriguing, but if I'm being honest I'm not sure how I often I'd use film emulations. Sometimes they do look a bit overcooked.

The Smart add-on that @rdeloe mentions seems to be good option as well. Any more input on the Smart package?



Jul 16, 2021 at 11:23 PM
genji
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p.21 #8 · Cobalt Profiles


snappu wrote:
Still pondering on what to purchase next. Fuji Digital/Film, CCD Fever, or Kodachrome are intriguing, but if I'm being honest I'm not sure how I often I'd use film emulations. Sometimes they do look a bit overcooked.


Don’t be put off by their sometimes looking overcooked. The effect can be dialled back (or emphasised) with the slider that appears with the film emulations.



Jul 17, 2021 at 01:38 AM
wstam
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p.21 #9 · Cobalt Profiles


I bought a few packages last month. Just learnt about the Smart collection from this page. Still trying to figure out what's the "Pure" preset? How is it different from "Neutral"?

Are the "Standard" and "Neutral" in this smart collection same as the "Standard" and "Neutral" under the basic camera package?

Another separate question, where are such presets file copied to on the drive for MacOS? I can find the profile files but not sure where are the presets copied to.

Thanks...



Jul 17, 2021 at 01:56 AM
Ulysseita
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p.21 #10 · Cobalt Profiles


wstam wrote:
I bought a few packages last month. Just learnt about the Smart collection from this page. Still trying to figure out what's the "Pure" preset? How is it different from "Neutral"?

Are the "Standard" and "Neutral" in this smart collection same as the "Standard" and "Neutral" under the basic camera package?

Another separate question, where are such presets file copied to on the drive for MacOS? I can find the profile files but not sure where are the presets copied to.

Thanks...


You will find where to copy all the files on our instructions files; yes the std and neutral are the same on smart.

Pure is a linear Repro with a contrast curve made to fix the shift of hue angle and saturation.

left Neutral, right Pure
https://i.imgur.com/ySegNpB.jpg



Jul 17, 2021 at 10:29 AM
Vetteman
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p.21 #11 · Cobalt Profiles


wstam wrote:
Another separate question, where are such presets file copied to on the drive for MacOS? I can find the profile files but not sure where are the presets copied to.

Thanks...


Digital and Film Emulations are stored on a Mac here:
Library> Application Support>Adobe>CameraRaw>ImportedSettings

DNG Camera Profiles are stored on a Mac here:
Library> ApplicationSupport>Adobe>CameraRaw>CameraProfiles>Imported




Jul 17, 2021 at 12:06 PM
rdeloe
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p.21 #12 · Cobalt Profiles


I've been diving deep into these Cobalt profiles during the last few days. Colour is new for me because up to now I’ve really only worked in black and white (except for family snapshots). I use Lightroom so the colour channels have just been a way to adjust tone.

Lately I’m starting to get more serious about colour, and I do not like the starting points that Adobe provides with its standard profiles. I shoot Fuji GFX, but I don’t particularly like Adobe’s versions of Fuji’s “film simulations” either.

I bought into these Cobalt Profiles in the hope that they would provide a better starting point for colour photography than what’s available to me in Lightroom. I bought a couple Cobalt film simulation packs out of curiosity and sentimentality.

My understanding (and Giuseppe can correct me if I’m wrong) is that the basic pack you buy for your camera, which provides Flat, Modular, Neutral, Repro and Standard, and the optional Smart pack (which provides Vivid, Landscape, Monochrome, etc., and versions of these) are like the base Adobe profiles in that they are starting point interpretations of the RAW data. You can tell because the “Amount” slider for these camera profiles is greyed out. Like “Adobe Color” and “Adobe Standard”, there is no “amount” – they’re fixed interpretation of the RAW data.

The film simulations are different. They build off of these base profiles. You can always tell you’re using a film simulation rather than a base profile because film simulations have “Amount” sliders. The amount slider is greyed out for the base profiles.

If you shove the amount slider for a film simulation all the way to 0, you’ll see the base profile on which it is based. For example, I have the two Kodak film packs. I quite like what Kodak Porta 160 (Linear) does with a lot of pictures. When using that emulation, sliding the Amount slider all the way to 0 creates an image that seems identical to what you get with Cobalt Repro.

One way to think of the film simulations is that they’re a bit like the recipe in your camera that creates a JPEG. Yes, you can still adjust a JPEG in post, but the “cooking” that was done to produce the JPEG takes a lot of options off the table. The Cobalt film simulations make a lot of deep adjustments that, to varying extents, also reduce your latitude for making your own adjustments – some more than others. The Kodachrome profiles, in particular, push files the hardest. This seems to be the tradeoff necessary to get the “look” of the profile. Of course, you’re still using RAW files with these film simulations, so you get way more adjustment room than a JPEG! But you still get less than with the base profiles.

Interestingly, one thing that’s off the table with the film emulation profiles I’ve tried is the black and white points. With any standard profile in Lightroom, and with the Cobalt base profiles, if you hold down the Alt key (Windows) while dragging the Blacks slider left (or Whites slider right) you can see when and where you’re reaching pure black or pure white in your image. With the film simulations where I’ve tried this, It looks like you can never hit pure black or pure white. This seems to be part of the recipe.

Anyway, long story short, I think the Cobalt base profiles generally provide a better starting point than the ones provided by Adobe. I definitely prefer all Cobalt standard and neutral profiles to the Adobe Color, Standard and Neutral profiles. That alone is worth the price for me. The Monochrome profile in the Smart pack isn’t better than Adobe Monochrome, which is excellent in my view. However, if you need a black and white starting point that pulls back just a bit on both ends of the histogram, then Cobalt’s Monochrome is a good choice. The other monochrome profiles in the Smart pack are less obviously useful to me, but we’ll see.

This is quite long already, but there’s one more thing to consider about film emulations. After testing the Cobalt Kodachrome profiles for a couple days, I sat down with a collection of Kodachrome 64 slides. For reasons I don’t fully understand, when I decided to learn photography I chose Kodachrome 64 as my film despite cheaper options being available. I shot enough Kodachrome to fill a binder before I switched to black and white film.

After examining these old slides closely, I can say that the Kodachrome look is definitely there in the Cobalt profiles, but nobody should expect that a film emulation profile for digital files will consistently and reliably produce that film’s look. It definitely works better for some files rather than others. That’s not a criticism of the Cobalt profiles. Think of it this way: as a long-time black and white photographer, I know instinctively when a picture will not work in black and white, so I don’t make those pictures. Nobody who used Kodachrome 64 expected to be able to get good results with every possible scene. That’s a good way to think about these film profiles too: use them on images for which they’re suited.




Jul 17, 2021 at 08:09 PM
Mitch Alland
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p.21 #13 · Cobalt Profiles


Are the Smart add-on profiles simply additions to the basic DNG profiles, or can they also be used with the film and camera emulation packs as well?
____________________
Frog Leaping photobook: https://www.frogleaping.org



Jul 17, 2021 at 09:06 PM
rdeloe
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p.21 #14 · Cobalt Profiles


Mitch Alland wrote:
Are the Smart add-on profiles simply additions to the basic DNG profiles, or can they also be used with the film and camera emulation packs as well?
____________________
Frog Leaping photobook:
https://www.frogleaping.org


I don't know the answer Mitch, except to say that they are basic profiles. As Giuseppe noted in an earlier, post, the ones in the Smart pack overlap to some extent with the basic pack for each camera. It looks like Flat, Neutral, Repro and Standard in the Smart pack are the same as the Cobalt Flat, etc. that are in each camera's basic package.

Vivid, Portrait, Landscape and Monochrome do not overlap; perhaps they're used as the base in some other film emulations? If you use Lightroom and Adobe's Landscape, Portrait and Vivid profiles, you should check out the Cobalt versions. You might find them preferable, although the differences seem to be quite subtle. Word of caution though: the differences might be minor in one image and significant in another. For example, I was having trouble telling Cobalt Neutral and Standard apart. Giuseppe suggested a portrait because the difference manifests most obviously on skin; he was right about that.

The Smart pack also includes variants of the main ones, e.g., AdobeRGB and sRGB variants for people working towards those colour spaces, and linear variants for some, and a "scientific" and "scientific linear" variant for monochrome.

To be honest, I'm not sure how much I'll be using the profiles in the Smart pack. They may solve problems I run into, but I'm not sure yet.



Jul 18, 2021 at 09:34 AM
BokehBeauty
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p.21 #15 · Cobalt Profiles


@Ulysseita
Thank you very much for your Sony camera profiles (A7RIII, RX1II). Together with the Canon 5DsR and 1DxII profiles, they are a relief for my Sony skin tone and "radioactive" green problems.

However, the Canon R5 profiles are way off. The blacks are unrecoverable crashed. This is with any Canon R5 profiles on the Canon R5 camera. Canon 5DsR and 1DxII profiles are better, but the gradation is still far off what Canon DPP 4.15.0 gives with three clicks on Canon R5 raws. For Canon R5 profiles, I have to set the LRC Blacks slider to +30..50 to recover the blacks somewhat. It gets better if I reduce the profile amount slider to 70 and less. Version: Cobalt-Canon-contemporary-grading-v2.1-6t3awc/Cobalt Canon EOS R5 v1.0



Jul 18, 2021 at 10:10 AM
Ulysseita
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p.21 #16 · Cobalt Profiles


BokehBeauty wrote:
@Ulysseita@
Thank you very much for your Sony camera profiles (A7RIII, RX1II). Together with the Canon 5DsR and 1DxII profiles, they are a relief for my Sony skin tone and "radioactive" green problems.

However, the Canon R5 profiles are way off. The blacks are unrecoverable crashed. This is with any Canon R5 profiles on the Canon R5 camera. Canon 5DsR and 1DxII profiles are better, but the gradation is still far off what Canon DPP 4.15.0 gives with three clicks on Canon R5 raws. For Canon R5 profiles, I have to set the LRC Blacks slider to +30..50 to recover the blacks
...Show more


Thanks for your feedback.

We are adding that to our to do list!



Jul 18, 2021 at 10:59 AM
boblombardi
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p.21 #17 · Cobalt Profiles


I feel like a doofus, but I purchased the base pack and the both Canon packs, and Kodachrome, and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I installed the base profiles just fine. I installed the xmp's under presets, and only Kodachrome showed up and doesn't appear to alter anything. After some messing about, the Canon stuff comes in under profiles...but don't those need to be presets so I can use the Cobalt standard profiles in tandem with them? Any guidance would be appreciated, the documentation didn't help me much.


Jul 19, 2021 at 10:49 PM
Ulysseita
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p.21 #18 · Cobalt Profiles


Hi Bob, please send a mail to contact form writing about the issue and if you did follow the instructions for installation and over what files (raw, TIFF) and camera model you tested the profiles.



boblombardi wrote:
I feel like a doofus, but I purchased the base pack and the both Canon packs, and Kodachrome, and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I installed the base profiles just fine. I installed the xmp's under presets, and only Kodachrome showed up and doesn't appear to alter anything. After some messing about, the Canon stuff comes in under profiles...but don't those need to be presets so I can use the Cobalt standard profiles in tandem with them? Any guidance would be appreciated, the documentation didn't help me much.




Jul 20, 2021 at 12:18 AM
LeeHUK
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p.21 #19 · Cobalt Profiles


OK, I have the Sony profile pack and must say I am very disappointed.

The profiles seems exactly the same as I am getting out of Lumariver Profile Designer and the color checker images available over at imaging resource.

I will post some examples tonight.




Jul 23, 2021 at 06:56 AM
LeeHUK
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p.21 #20 · Cobalt Profiles


Example 1

For me C1 ProStandard is the best.
https://i.postimg.cc/xdxG85FJ/Cobalt.jpg



Jul 23, 2021 at 07:26 AM
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