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Archive 2021 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon

  
 
bobbytan
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p.5 #1 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


I was shooting with my Olympus when I decided to get the A7R II + 3 lenses. Didn’t like the feel of the camera in my hands and I disliked the menu, so I sold it. After about a year, I bought the same Sony camera + 3 lenses again ... and again I simply could not gravitate towards the Sony and I find myself not wanting to use it ... so I sold it yet again.

When I switched to the Canon R5 last year, it did take a little effort to get used to it but I got over the learning curve very quickly and I am totally comfortable with the R5 now. Sony just didn’t work for me - using it wasn’t fun or enjoyable.

Edited on Apr 23, 2021 at 11:21 PM · View previous versions



Apr 23, 2021 at 11:15 PM
melcat
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p.5 #2 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


gdanmitchell wrote:
And, enjoyment. Enjoyment comes, I think, from making photographs rather than from buying stuff. Yes, it is fun to buy new things, but the real joy of photography comes from photographs.


I know you've had a lot of contact with musicians, so you must have heard this standard piece of advice: "Choose the instrument you love, that is right for you." Often, this is not even the most expensive instrument under consideration. It's especially important for string instruments like violins and guitars. At the other end of the scale, pianists have less choice, but this can be a reason for someone to choose some other instrument to learn. The right instrument has a feeling of "oneness", and this includes the sound, the feel of it and the appearance. This is a constant among muscians, across different cultures and for centuries.

I don't see why cameras should be different, except that, historically, the cameras on offer have usually failed spectacularly by these criteria. At the very least, a new expensive camera in 2021 should not actively distract and annoy the photographer when they are trying to create photographs.



Apr 23, 2021 at 11:16 PM
bobbytan
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p.5 #3 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


I am not a musician but I can relate to what you are saying. Most pros treat their gear as tools for getting a job done. But if you are not a pro, you must like or enjoy using your tools if you expect to use it often ... as your equipment are not tools but toys.

melcat wrote:
I know you've had a lot of contact with musicians, so you must have heard this standard piece of advice: "Choose the instrument you love, that is right for you." Often, this is not even the most expensive instrument under consideration. It's especially important for string instruments like violins and guitars. At the other end of the scale, pianists have less choice, but this can be a reason for someone to choose some other instrument to learn. The right instrument has a feeling of "oneness", and this includes the sound, the feel of it and the appearance. This is a
...Show more



Apr 23, 2021 at 11:34 PM
AmbientMike
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p.5 #4 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


If the ergonomics are bad I'd probably get something else. I've changed brands largely over ergonomics before. The ergonomics bad and getting used to it makes little sense to me. Just have to get another brand. Idk if any digital as good as OM but I like the smaller size of the rebels and the larger size of the x0D series.


Apr 23, 2021 at 11:46 PM
Imagemaster
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p.5 #5 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


Renting a camera or a lens is not always good advice for many people. It depends on where you live, shipping costs, rental cost per day, hassle of picking up gear and/or shipping it back.

Living in a small town in Alaska and renting gear is not as easy or inexpensive as it is for someone living in a major city in other states.

In some cases, it would be cheaper to buy the gear either new or used, then sell it.



Apr 24, 2021 at 12:04 AM
khurram1
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p.5 #6 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


Disagree with you there and I really like the R5. It was much easier and intuitive changing your meeting mode on the 5DsR. It was also a LOT quicker and intuitive to select your shooting mode. There are a lot of things they did that are great with the R5. But thy have made other things overly complicated and extremely intuitive.
TeamSpeed wrote:
The menu system is the same as the other recent dslr models. The R5/6 is not any different in its menu and configuration ability as the 5d4 for example.




Apr 24, 2021 at 12:10 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.5 #7 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


Well i have both the 5d4 and R6. I have the same menu system, have set up My Menu with the most used items like my 5d4, and the only thing different is what i have customized the buttons to do due to the EVF and EYE AF. The Mfn is a bit different but i ended moving most things to buttons.


Apr 24, 2021 at 12:38 AM
httivals
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p.5 #8 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


I also agree that when considering a new camera system (as opposed to a new lens) renting isn't the best option. It takes me about a month until I have a pretty good idea of what I can accomplish with a new camera system . . . Let's see . . . I bought my R5 about mid-March and I am just now beginning to decide that for me and how I like to use cameras I think that it's probably significantly better than my Sony A7RIVs. That has to do with the much better lens selection for the focal lengths I prefer (70-200 and 70-300), better image stabilization, and better (more reliable, faster and better eye) autofocus. . . .


Apr 24, 2021 at 03:12 AM
johnvanr
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p.5 #9 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


gdanmitchell wrote:
Here we are talking about something that you DO like for many reasons. Often the perceived dislike is more about simply not being used to it that about some intrinsic objective flaw.

And, enjoyment. Enjoyment comes, I think, from making photographs rather than from buying stuff. Yes, it is fun to buy new things, but the real joy of photography comes from photographs.

About "use something that you don't like in the belief that you'll get used to it." Remember your first taste of coffee? ;-)


You’re generalizing something you believe that’s actually not true for everybody. Plus, you’re shooting with Fuji and Canon and have been for as long as I have frequented these forums, it seems. I have in the meantime shot with many systems, including twice with Sony, and speak from experience using stuff I didn’t feel comfortable despite its awesome technical capabilities. It's not worth it and it’s certainly not worth it when an alternative exists.

That’s not about the fun of buying new stuff, it’s about the fun of shooting. And that, as I said, is one half of the photographic experience to me.



Apr 24, 2021 at 06:02 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.5 #10 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


@melcat, The sony is dimensionally smaller than the R6 and they are virtually the same weight. Not sure what to say if you found the Sony more fitting to your hands, if you truly have larger hands.

https://cameradecision.com/compare/Canon-EOS-R6-vs-Sony-Alpha-A9

I had physically compared to the a73 myself.

Edited on Apr 24, 2021 at 03:42 PM · View previous versions



Apr 24, 2021 at 08:41 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.5 #11 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


melcat wrote:
I know you've had a lot of contact with musicians, so you must have heard this standard piece of advice: "Choose the instrument you love, that is right for you." Often, this is not even the most expensive instrument under consideration. It's especially important for string instruments like violins and guitars. At the other end of the scale, pianists have less choice, but this can be a reason for someone to choose some other instrument to learn. The right instrument has a feeling of "oneness", and this includes the sound, the feel of it and the appearance. This is a
...Show more

The response to this is complex, and it is, indeed, something I've thought about a lot. Let me give it a try.

First, most musical instruments — at least the best ones — are not the product of the same sort of industrial processes that create photographic equipment. Consequently, there can be more real differences among them.

I was a trombone player, playing professionally, at one point. I recall an event where a group of us were meeting to play trombone ensemble music, and we — while keeping our own mouthpieces — simply passed each of our instruments to the right around the circle and all played everyone of them. They were different — one might have a smoother slide, another a more responsive high range, etc.

But... that's not what we're talking about here. There aren't really subtle and meaningful differences between one person's R5 and another person's R5.

Back then the "best" instruments came from the King and the Conn companies. (That has since changed.) You were either a Conn trombonist or a King trombonist. (Sound familiar?) But, guess what? No one could tell which one you used by the sound of your instrument. And, perhaps more important, some folks (this should sound familiar, too) believed that K was best while others were equally adamant that C was better. And (more familiar territory!) every so often someone would make a big deal of switching from K to C or from C to K. Often, though not quite always, such players were the type who were always looking for the magic nostrum that would bring some immediate and significant change to their playing. (These folks also had cases for of mouthpieces, paid good money to get custom lead pipes, and all the rest.)

I'm married to a professional musician who plays a woodwind instrument in symphony and opera orchestras. Among players of her instrument there is a long tradition of intense (some might say borderline pathological) attention to small differences among instruments and materials related to those instruments. She believed in that stuff for years. Then, a decade or two ago, she adopted a new point of view: That is is better and more productive to learn to play well on equipment that does not meet some imaginary and unobtainable level of mythological perfection. This was a tremendous relief to her and defocusing from the obsession with mechanical perfection her playing and musicianship grew.

I've often wondered about the number of photographers who have some background in music. Most that I know of were involved in music as instrumental performers — not too may singers and not too many composers. (Though the latter was the focus of my academic training.) What, I wondered, could explain this? One thought crossed my mind: that the appeal of the interaction between the artist and a mechanical instrument might be one connection between instrumentalists and photographers.

I can tell you that there is at least as much obsession about the "instrument" in music as in photography. Much of it is a distraction and unwarranted. Part of the difficulty is that _some_ attention to this is critically important. You do need to pay attention to your instrument (photographic or musical) and master its operation and one goal is to make the operation of thing so transparent and intuitive that you stop thinking about it and instead thing of what you are trying to create, whether that is imagery or sound.

In an endeavor where the instrument is such an important tool, there seems to be a risk that this real relationship can become fetishized and given almost fantastical importance.

I can also report with some authority that there are those in both professions worlds who look at this fetishizing and roll their eyes...

Dan

Pardon the length of this unedited stream-of-consciousness post. And, as always, YMMV.

- - -

To a different poster who wrote soothing about the "fun of shooting:" — that concept often confuses me. Honestly, serious photography isn't generally "fun" in the same what that, say, skiing or vacationing or going out to dinner is. The process of making photographs is actually work. It IS a good and rewarding kind of work, but it is also difficult and sometimes frustrating. Operating cameras isn't, at least for me, particularly "fun."

However, creating successful photographic images is gratifying. It is the "seeing" part of photography that I find engaging. I guess that here I part company with some folks.



Apr 24, 2021 at 09:38 AM
AmbientMike
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p.5 #12 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon




arbitrage wrote:
I've been getting them constantly for a couple week when sending PMs. Now just today got one for posting a reply. Also last week FM was logging me out (but that seems to have stopped now).

If I keep getting Captcha when just doing a post I'll be done with posting...I'm sure that will please many


That happened to me too. Not sure what caused it.



Apr 24, 2021 at 09:53 AM
bobbytan
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p.5 #13 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


I agree. Renting is expensive; 1 week is way too short to familiarize yourself with a camera; and 1 month is way too expensive. Buying used is a good idea, especially if you are able to sell it (if you decide to not keep it) locally like a Craiglist - saves you on shipping and Paypal fees. Even if you have to sell it on the B&S Board, the shipping charges and fees will not cost as much as renting a camera + lens for a period of 2-4 weeks.

Imagemaster wrote:
Renting a camera or a lens is not always good advice for many people. It depends on where you live, shipping costs, rental cost per day, hassle of picking up gear and/or shipping it back.

Living in a small town in Alaska and renting gear is not as easy or inexpensive as it is for someone living in a major city in other states.

In some cases, it would be cheaper to buy the gear either new or used, then sell it.




Apr 24, 2021 at 10:32 AM
johnvanr
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p.5 #14 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


gdanmitchell wrote:
The response to this is complex, and it is, indeed, something I've thought about a lot. Let me give it a try.

First, most musical instruments — at least the best ones — are not the product of the same sort of industrial processes that create photographic equipment. Consequently, there can be more real differences among them.

I was a trombone player, playing professionally, at one point. I recall an event where a group of us were meeting to play trombone ensemble music, and we — while keeping our own mouthpieces — simply passed each of our instruments to the right
...Show more

Indeed we part company about the “fun of shooting.” If it wasn’t fun, I wouldn’t do it. Doesn’t mean I can’t be serious about it, but it does mean I’m not willing to make sacrifices that I’d make if it were work.



Apr 24, 2021 at 10:45 AM
bobbytan
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p.5 #15 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


One reason why many proficient amateur photographers would not turn pro is because the fun factor is mostly lost and a project is just a job (work) which can be frustrating if you are not allowed free reign on what you shoot and how you shoot it - so it can be boring and tiresome. With hobbyists, it's all about the fun factor - and that includes the selection and use of gear - not gears. You will gravitate towards a certain camera that checks most of your boxes - on looks, ergonomics, menu, specs, features, size/weight, weather-proofing, price, lens selection, etc, etc. For me personally, I would never get a Sony camera unless they revamp the body design/ergonomics. The lens selection is terrific but that is only 1 part of the equation. Of course, I am only speaking for myself. The fact that Sony is doing so well speaks volumes about its popularity.

gdanmitchell wrote:
To a different poster who wrote soothing about the "fun of shooting:" — that concept often confuses me. Honestly, serious photography isn't generally "fun" in the same what that, say, skiing or vacationing or going out to dinner is. The process of making photographs is actually work. It IS a good and rewarding kind of work, but it is also difficult and sometimes frustrating. Operating cameras isn't, at least for me, particularly "fun."

However, creating successful photographic images is gratifying. It is the "seeing" part of photography that I find engaging. I guess that here I part company with some
...Show more




Apr 24, 2021 at 12:51 PM
httivals
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p.5 #16 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


I agree 100% that it's got to be fun. In my mind, unless you make significant income from it, then what's the point unless you're really enjoying yourself, and enjoying the experience of using your equipment in the field is a part of it. . . . I don't consider myself primarily a portrait/people/dog photography, although I do document our family life with photography a lot. But every time I see the Canon R5 grab onto an eye for autofocus and hold it while tracking someone, it gives me a thrill. It's a "Wow moment still after about 5 weeks of daily use. Amazing the technology in our world today. Qualitatively different than with the Sony A7RIV, whose eye autofocus was revelatory the first time I used it. . . .

johnvanr wrote:
Indeed we part company about the “fun of shooting.” If it wasn’t fun, I wouldn’t do it. Doesn’t mean I can’t be serious about it, but it does mean I’m not willing to make sacrifices that I’d make if it were work.





Apr 24, 2021 at 12:54 PM
chez
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p.5 #17 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


For me it’s all about the images and memories that photography captures. I personally would not drag around a pack full of gear for 4 weeks through Vietnam no matter how much fun I have pressing the shutter if it wasn’t for the memories I bring back home and share with others. To that end, a light kit is one key attribute I look for in my gear as when things get heavy and tiresome, all the fun quickly disappears.


Apr 24, 2021 at 01:48 PM
bobbytan
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p.5 #18 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


That is exactly what I mean about the fun factor. It’s a balance of all the things that are most important to you - size/weight, specs/features, image quality, price, etc. For me and what I shoot, it was the Olympus. I switched to the R5 for 3 reasons: 45MP sensor (I love to crop and I compete), bird-eye AF, and the lightweight 100-500L lens. The R5 with the 100-500L is a terrific combo for bird photography - and fun/enjoyable to use.

chez wrote:
For me it’s all about the images and memories that photography captures. I personally would not drag around a pack full of gear for 4 weeks through Vietnam no matter how much fun I have pressing the shutter if it wasn’t for the memories I bring back home and share with others. To that end, a light kit is one key attribute I look for in my gear as when things get heavy and tiresome, all the fun quickly disappears.




Apr 24, 2021 at 03:19 PM
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p.5 #19 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


bobbytan wrote:
That is exactly what I mean about the fun factor. It’s a balance of all the things that are most important to you - size/weight, specs/features, image quality, price, etc. For me and what I shoot, it was the Olympus. I switched to the R5 for 3 reasons: 45MP sensor (I love to crop and I compete), bird-eye AF, and the lightweight 100-500L lens. The R5 with the 100-500L is a terrific combo for bird photography - and fun/enjoyable to use.



The R5 is "out of stock" on Adorama



Apr 24, 2021 at 05:18 PM
bobbytan
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p.5 #20 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


Buy from B&H with Payboo card and save on the sales tax.

CW100 wrote:
The R5 is "out of stock" on Adorama




Apr 24, 2021 at 06:47 PM
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