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Archive 2021 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon

  
 
arbitrage
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p.4 #1 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


mogul wrote:
I wrote a long reply but got redirected for a captcha...is this new to FM?


I've been getting them constantly for a couple week when sending PMs. Now just today got one for posting a reply. Also last week FM was logging me out (but that seems to have stopped now).

If I keep getting Captcha when just doing a post I'll be done with posting...I'm sure that will please many



Apr 18, 2021 at 06:08 PM
bobbytan
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p.4 #2 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


You must be a leftie.

arbitrage wrote:
I'm also pretty quick at the swaps because I love that right side lens release button




Apr 18, 2021 at 06:46 PM
esanchez
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p.4 #3 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


I'm in the process of switching from Sony to Canon. And overall I really like the Canon functionally way better than the sony. The only thing is affordable lens selection. Sony I got the 85mm 1.8, 55mm 1.8 and Tamron 28-75mm and they all perform above their price. I wish Canon had equivalent lenses and price. I tried the RF 50mm 1.8 and was really disappointed by it. Next I'm going to try out the 85mm F2 and finally I wish Canon or third party had a nice small and sharp 50mm 1.4 in native RF mount. Other than that I really like the canon better than the Sony.


Apr 19, 2021 at 01:25 AM
timgangloff
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p.4 #4 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


Tough call but if you already have the Sony lenses, why the desire to or thought of moving to Canon?

The advantages of Canon, to me, are the availability of used lenses. There are just more Canon shooters out there and therefore, a greater number of used lenses should you prefer to buy used. But other than that, I don't know of any advantages of Canon at this time. Rumored Canon cameras sound great, but who knows when they get released and what their full specs will be. I don't think anyone saw the a1 specs coming, so it's possible that the Canon camera will be even better than rumored.

I've been shooting sports professionally for about 15 years and about 12 of those with the best Canon cameras you could buy. I don't notice any differences in robustness between brands. No differences in dust accumulation (other than I don't get oil splatters anymore ;-) )

You mention you shoot some action stuff. Not sure what you mean by action, but if it's fast action or with fast moving balls, you may need the faster sensor readout speeds of the Sony. The r5 can do lots of sports without issues, but some sports with really fast moving objects can be an issue. The Sony won't have those issues.

Not sure how many pixels you need. The r5 and A1 are pretty equal. If you need fewer, the a9II or r6 could be a good buy but I'd suggest the a9II is a better buy than the r6, especially if you have the Sony lenses already.

I talked to a photographer the other day leaving her internship at a local newspaper and wanting to do photography full time including some sports stuff. She would be buying into a new system and essentially starting from scratch. I encouraged her to look at Canon because I think it's a cheaper eco-system to get into when funds are limited because of the used lens market and that Sony doesn't even have a couple of lenses most poor cash strapped sports photographers need. For example, you can buy a used Canon 300 2.8 for a good price and Sony doesn't even have one. Same for getting an older Canon 400 2.8. With Sony you are pretty limited and probably would be buying a new 400 2.8 at $13K . Well beyond her budget. Same with the Sony 70-200 2.8. Hard to find used and it's an expensive lens compared to an older version of the Canon 70-200 2.8. Incidentally, my Sony 70-200 is as sharp or sharper than my beloved Canon 70-200 2.8 IS III. Guess I got a good copy. I do hear there is copy variation with this lens.

I've had good and bad experiences with both CPS and SPS. No difference there IMHO.

I know he's a Sony sponsored shooter, but I guy I trust and that produces nearly unparalleled work is mountain climber/videographer Renan Ozturk. He shoots at the most extreme conditions and uses a Sony. I don't care if you are paid or not, I'm not climbing Everest with a camera that might fail. Well, I'm not attempting it period, but he seems to make it sing. I'm sure he could make a Canon sing as well, but the point is that the Sony is quite capable in the most extreme environments so I'm sure it would work for you in Alaska.

One thing I do like about the Sony is the 200-600. It's probably the best value lens I've ever used for daytime sports/wildlife. Just need good light, but wow, the versatility of this lens can't be emphasized enough. I'm not sure if Canon has an equal at this time.

But the bottom line is what is your current system not doing for you? Will the Canon body fix that? Or can a newer Sony body fix it?




Apr 19, 2021 at 08:06 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #5 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


^^^
Several things I like about the post right above me.

1. It barely mentions "image quality" at all. (Secret: you can make great quality images with pretty much any brand.)

2. If focuses on real world, functional differences instead of peripheral things.

3. It acknowledges pluses and minuses of both systems.

4. It (somewhat subtly) shoots down the mythology that one system (which one? depends on your bias!) is reliable in challenging situations and the other is not.

It is hard — for some folks _really_ hard — to avoid getting caught up in the brand versus brand stuff that almost invariably amps up small differences into life-changing issues. The truth is that you can make great (or not so great) photographs with any of these brands, all of them are actually very good, and brand preferences often come down to non-objective stuff.

Finally, switching is way over-rated. I'm not saying that it is never justified, just that it rarely produces the differences in one's photography that folks use as a justification. In almost all cases you'd be better off sticking with whatever good brand you are already using and focusing on your "seeing" and picture-making skills.

Thanks for that post.

Dan



Apr 19, 2021 at 09:08 AM
httivals
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p.4 #6 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


The most likely reason to switch among Nikon, Sony or Canon that makes sense (to me) is for lens selection. There are some lenses available in one system that are unavailable in the other. In some cases you can use adapters, but the adapter experience was, at least for me and after awhile, less than satisfying. Before switching for this reason, you should really think about and try to make sure whether the new system will have the lens offerings you want. . . . After having used Sony A7Riii and Rivs for the past 2 1/2 years I decided to also buy a Canon R5. Sony does not offer 70-200mm or 70-300mm zooms that meet my objectives, and a 70-200 or 70-300mm lens is my first or second most used lens. Canon offers two - the EF 70-300mm L and the RF 70-200mm f4. I know because I used the EF 70-300mm L for 2 years on Sony bodies via an adapter. (I also tried Sony equivalents - two or three copies of a 70-200mm f4G and a copy of the Tamron 70-180mm f2.8. None of them performed nearly as well at the 70-300mm L when focused at near infinity for landscapes). . . . . I am very satisfied with the decision I made. My 70-300mm L works seamlessly on the R5 and the RF 70-200mm f4 I just purchased has excellent image quality at infinity focus for landscapes, is lighter, and is more compact than any Sony system lenses. Also, the Canon R system offers significantly better image stabilization than Sony so that I am able to use a monopod for virtually all landscapes as opposed to a tripod; I am finding that I enjoy the monopod experience a lot more at this point in my life. I am also very happy I kept my Sony A7RIVs because of the lenses that are available for that system and of which I already own very good copies - Excellent ultrawide prime lenses and an excellent 16-35 GM (although for this latter the Canon 15-35mm would probably be a good equivalent). YMMV. I've found that for me at least I can easily get used to ergonomics of one system or another - maybe because my hands are medium size and I don't mind digging into a manual or menu system to learn a different camera until I get it set up the way I want.


Apr 19, 2021 at 09:26 AM
Arka
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p.4 #7 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


AlaskanNiz wrote:
Hey guys! I'm a bit of a lurker here who's been debating a decision for a while. I have been shooting on an a7iii for about a year and am somewhat invested, I have three lenses, zoom trinity and all were purchased used so I'm not terribly invested. I'm debating moving to the r5 or r6. I do really like mirrorless or else I would be thinking about a 5dm3.

My reasons for switching include ergonomics, robustness, customer support, and colors. I have large hands and I've been shooting in Alaska sometimes at 40 below and when my hands go wooden
...Show more

As a threshold matter, switching systems nowadays is usually a "grass is greener" proposition that is rarely justified. This is coming from someone who has switched systems 3 times in 21 years. I won't do it again absent:
1. A compelling advantage in a different system that would substantially improve my photography, or
2. a crippling disadvantage in my present system that cannot be overcome.
If you are in a Sony system right now, these factors will be hard to prove, but they are also (of course) subjective. Moving to your reasoning:

Ergonomics - This always strikes me as the best and worst reason to switch. You can either take a "learn to live with the differences" attitude or a "I just can't stand this and need to change" attitude. Either is subjective, but I'm in the former camp. Having owned four camera systems (and switched primary systems three times), I shrug at allegations of the vast ergonomic chasms between manufacturers. What will a Canon R offer you in terms of ease of use that you can't program into a Sony custom button or "My Menu?" And to my knowledge the Sony cameras are all a little lighter than Canon, so that's another advantage for back-country and adventure photography. So Is the space between the grip and lens worth the many thousands of dollars you'll spend on an EOS R kit (particularly given that, on balance, Canon R lenses cost more than their Sony counterparts)?

Robustness - I don't know how the Sony cameras compare to Canon R in terms of robustness, but Sony cameras from the A9 generation onward are very robust. The A7R4, A9II, and A1 have made significant strides in this regard. I recently used an A9 and A7R4 in a snowy-rainy situation in Utah and they performed wonderfully.

Customer Support - No idea.

Colors - I hear a lot about Canon colors, but have yet to take in a Canon RAW file that offers me colors that Sony cannot. And I've looked at quite a few - I used to shoot Canon and have a friend who shoots one of their modern cameras.

To my mind, if you already have a Canon R system, you should keep that. If you already have a Sony Alpha system, you should keep that. The urge to switch between the two is rarely justified by any substantive advantage one has over the other. But it's your money and your experience, so I wish you the best of luck in deciding.



Apr 22, 2021 at 07:21 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #8 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


When it comes to switching in hopes of drastic changes in one's photography...

... I second your motion.

Dan

Arka wrote:
As a threshold matter, switching systems nowadays is usually a "grass is greener" proposition that is rarely justified. This is coming from someone who has switched systems 3 times in 21 years. I won't do it again absent:
1. A compelling advantage in a different system that would substantially improve my photography, or
2. a crippling disadvantage in my present system that cannot be overcome.
If you are in a Sony system right now, these factors will be hard to prove, but they are also (of course) subjective. Moving to your reasoning:

Ergonomics - This always strikes me as the best and
...Show more




Apr 22, 2021 at 10:54 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.4 #9 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


Regarding ergonomics, for those of us with larger hands, the canon R series just fits better and despite their larger grips and size, are just as light as the Sony. The more comfortable a camera, the more enjoyable and longer one can use that body.


Apr 23, 2021 at 04:25 AM
Jonesy
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p.4 #10 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


Can't go wrong with with either system. Pick what makes you smile when you use it. Rent the R5 and a good RF lens and go from there.


Apr 23, 2021 at 06:15 AM
Arka
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p.4 #11 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


TeamSpeed wrote:
Regarding ergonomics, for those of us with larger hands, the canon R series just fits better and despite their larger grips and size, are just as light as the Sony. The more comfortable a camera, the more enjoyable and longer one can use that body.


My hands are big and I haven't noticed this difference. I actually like the higher density and smaller footprint of the Sony cameras better. So again, this is a highly subjective call, but it's hard to justify a wholesale system shift (with all the associated costs and learning involved) on this basis alone. Now if you're picking a new system from scratch, totally different story.



Apr 23, 2021 at 01:45 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.4 #12 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


arbitrage wrote:
Now maybe it is because I shoot wide open between f/4 and f/9 all the time. Maybe if I delved into landscapes much more stopped down I'd see what people always are talking about? But I periodically stop down to f/22 just to check and I don't see anything. I


Yup - you won't see the spots until you go to f16 of f22 to have a sunburst. And you won't notice them even there much unless/until you start pushing the shadows. But that's what landscape people do.

Maybe Sony has improved (r3 or r4) but I had the a7r and have the A7r2 and they were bad for dust. And I used them side to side with 5diii and 5DSR. My 5dsr never needed cleaning. My r5 seems to be pretty good. I have no idea whether Sony has improved because I don't need them now that canon has 45 or 50 mpx.



Apr 23, 2021 at 02:17 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.4 #13 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


Arka wrote:
My hands are big and I haven't noticed this difference. I actually like the higher density and smaller footprint of the Sony cameras better. So again, this is a highly subjective call, but it's hard to justify a wholesale system shift (with all the associated costs and learning involved) on this basis alone. Now if you're picking a new system from scratch, totally different story.


I have handled both systems side by side, and don't like my fingers dangling off the bottom of the Sony. My Canon gets a +1 finger rating from me. I also like the control rings on some of the lenses and the placement of several of the buttons over the Sony. Canon just feels more stable in my hands, especially when I am using longer or heavier lenses. Of course this is subjective, which means one cannot really dismiss ergonomics so easily. Dexterity, arthritis, hand strength, finger span, and a host of other attributes could certainly mean that the Canon (or Sony) just fits better and can be held for hours on end better than the other.

I think Ergos play a very important part in the selection of a body, almost as much as shadow noise management, DR, etc, at least for some people. Eye AF has been a huge one for me too, which makes sense as a differentiator.



Apr 23, 2021 at 02:57 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #14 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


Arka wrote:
My hands are big and I haven't noticed this difference. I actually like the higher density and smaller footprint of the Sony cameras better. So again, this is a highly subjective call, but it's hard to justify a wholesale system shift (with all the associated costs and learning involved) on this basis alone. Now if you're picking a new system from scratch, totally different story.


My belief is that even if, for example, you think that the other brand's bodies feel a bit more comfortable to you than your current brand, it is the policy of switching systems/brands for rather small stuff that is problematic. No system is perfect, all have pluses and minuses. In most cases one is better off sticking with whatever brand he/she has unless there is something truly deficient about it or if another brand comes up with something this is really far better (in objective terms) than what one currently has.

While I think ergonomics are not unimportant, I also think that we frequently forget that we adapt to quite a range of things. In particular, making judgments about ergonomics based on holding a camera or even using it a few times is risky. At one point I acquired a smaller system as an adjunct to my primary system. The first time I used it I ran into all sorts of interface problems — the buttons were closer together than I was used to, things were in different places, I sometimes hit controls and changed settings by accident, and holding the thing was uncomfortable. In all honesty, I wondered if I had just made a very expensive mistake. Then I continued to use the system and after a period of time I became used to the way it worked, developed new instincts for control positions and how to hold the camera, and it became quite natural. So natural, in fact, that I distinctly recall a particular day when I switched back to my older system, the one that I thought had the better interface, and IT felt strange and awkward!

Dan



Apr 23, 2021 at 05:11 PM
PhilPDX
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p.4 #15 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


gdanmitchell wrote:
I wondered if I had just made a very expensive mistake.


I'm going through the same process right now with my new R5. Coming from the 5Ds, I cannot get used to the new camera and its menu system. Compared to the DSLR, the mirrorless seems to be overly complicated and makes even the simplest task unnecessarily hard. Or so it seems, because I'm pretty sure that after a while I will get used to it and wonder how I could have ever lived with an "ancient" 5Ds. :-)

-Phil




Apr 23, 2021 at 06:37 PM
johnvanr
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p.4 #16 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


gdanmitchell wrote:
My belief is that even if, for example, you think that the other brand's bodies feel a bit more comfortable to you than your current brand, it is the policy of switching systems/brands for rather small stuff that is problematic. No system is perfect, all have pluses and minuses. In most cases one is better off sticking with whatever brand he/she has unless there is something truly deficient about it or if another brand comes up with something this is really far better (in objective terms) than what one currently has.

While I think ergonomics are not unimportant, I also
...Show more

I just don’t agree. Why In the world would you use something you don’t like to use in the belief you’ll get used to it? Yes, switching costs money, but being uncomfortable with your gear lowers enjoyment over the long term. And unless you’re a pro, enjoyment is what this is about.



Apr 23, 2021 at 06:55 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.4 #17 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


The menu system is the same as the other recent dslr models. The R5/6 is not any different in its menu and configuration ability as the 5d4 for example.


Apr 23, 2021 at 07:18 PM
AmbientMike
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p.4 #18 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon




AlaskanNiz wrote:
Hey guys! I'm a bit of a lurker here who's been debating a decision for a while. I have been shooting on an a7iii for about a year and am somewhat invested, I have three lenses, zoom trinity and all were purchased used so I'm not terribly invested. I'm debating moving to the r5 or r6. I do really like mirrorless or else I would be thinking about a 5dm3.

My reasons for switching include ergonomics, robustness, customer support, and colors. I have large hands and I've been shooting in Alaska sometimes at 40 below and when my hands go wooden
...Show more

If you want robustness, 1Dx series is supposed to be king.

Canon aps DSLRs have surpassed all expectations for toughness, overall. Literally caught in the remnants of a hurricane after I got 40D, dried it out other times too. Lasted thousands of shots after the rock impact that finally ruined it.

Even the rebels, might be a miracle but you'd be amazed at the impacts SL2 has survived. Slipped on a ridge last summer for one thing and it seems fine. A couple other major impacts recently. Very light lenses and light enough to make a backup possible



Apr 23, 2021 at 08:07 PM
melcat
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p.4 #19 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


TeamSpeed wrote:
Regarding ergonomics, for those of us with larger hands, the canon R series just fits better and despite their larger grips and size, are just as light as the Sony.


Having now had the chance to try the R6, this was not my experience. (My hands are classfied as "large" for the purposes of rubber gloves, but "small" for piano playing, 10.5cm across including the thumb.) I haven't tried the most recent Sonys, but the A9 felt right to me. I urge everyone to try for themselves.

gdanmitchell wrote]:
While I think ergonomics are not unimportant, I also think that we frequently forget that we adapt to quite a range of things. In particular, making judgments about ergonomics based on holding a camera or even using it a few times is risky.


It's also risky to decide to "get used to" a camera you don't like. I loathed the original 5D from the beginning, and still loathe it. There came a day around 3 years into the new (to me) Canon system that I just could't take it any more. The straw that broke the camel's back was when I couldn't read the LED display in the viewfinder one sunny day. But by then I was in too deep, with a largish collection of lenses. The only expedient solution was a 1Ds Mk III, which I tolerate. I might even be expedient again and get an R6, which for me would only be a second body. But the risk of doing so is real: ending up with a set of discontinued Canon lenses instead of being in the bigger and still growing Sony system.

it is the policy of switching systems/brands for rather small stuff that is problematic.

This sounds good in theory, but sometimes seemingly small things can be "hurdle requirements". For Sony, I've identified two of those.

I cannot see any way in which I would be able to do firmware updates without buying a new computer or using a friend's. They no longer support the old Vista laptop I was using for that, and I am not prepared to install their firmware update software on my Macs, as it requires turning off a master security switch. (My understanding is that, with the new macOS in September, Apple will outright disallow installing kernel drivers. Maybe this will be a wakeup call to Sony, or maybe they'll just pull an Adobe and tell their customers not to update to the new OS.)

The other one is their practice of using rechargeable button cells instead of supercapacitors for running the real time clocks in the bodies. When these fail, the camera has to be disassembled. I hunted down the service manual for the Sony camera I do own, and reassembly requires proprietary Sony software. I can't do it myself.

Underlying this thread is an incorrect axiom, that there must exist a good new camera body. While there are certainly things you can do with these new bodies that were not (as easily) possible with the old, and several of them have some stunning party tricks they can perform, I do not think any of them are good cameras. So long as you go into it understanding that, and not expecting to actually like your purchase, it's a reasonable thing to buy one in order to make money or have fun taking photos you could not before.

Just don't lose sleep over it or expect to ever see your money back.



Apr 23, 2021 at 09:53 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #20 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


johnvanr wrote:
I just don’t agree. Why In the world would you use something you don’t like to use in the belief you’ll get used to it? Yes, switching costs money, but being uncomfortable with your gear lowers enjoyment over the long term. And unless you’re a pro, enjoyment is what this is about.


Here we are talking about something that you DO like for many reasons. Often the perceived dislike is more about simply not being used to it that about some intrinsic objective flaw.

And, enjoyment. Enjoyment comes, I think, from making photographs rather than from buying stuff. Yes, it is fun to buy new things, but the real joy of photography comes from photographs.

About "use something that you don't like in the belief that you'll get used to it." Remember your first taste of coffee? ;-)



Apr 23, 2021 at 10:56 PM
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