p.8 #1 · Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Are there any examples of fixing it on the net? This sounds interesting (I mean the problem, starting from its root cause which is still unclear to the possible solution)...
Steve Spencer wrote:
As long as it isn't ramped, it would actually be really easy to fix. I am not really all that good at post-processing and I am pretty sure I could do this in about a minute per image. Even if it is ramped the key is getting rid of the border, which should be easy to do. Regardless of if it is ramped I can't see why it couldn't be fixed in camera easily. I suspect Leica will have a firmware fix soon. It really is no more of serious issue that OSPDAF banding with Sony sensors or artifacts from Sony's lossy compression. The banding for OSPDAF could be mostly but not totally addressed with firmware and the solution to lossy compression was of course lossless compression. I don't see this issue as any more consequential or difficult to fix than these earlier issues....Show more →
Jul 04, 2021 at 02:17 PM
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p.8 #2 · Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
j4nu wrote:
Are there any examples of fixing it on the net? This sounds interesting (I mean the problem, starting from its root cause which is still unclear to the possible solution)...
Also, I don't know much about sensor manufacturing process, but the stitching idea does not sound very convincing to me (the Leica guy theory seems more plausible to me on the other hand)... but maybe it's indeed how Leica produces these sensors...
I haven't looked into this much at all. I have just read what Lloyd had on his site for free--I don't subscribe. From looking at his images, they do not look hard to fix. This is one of Lloyd's specialties--finding issues like this--and I think he has a track record of finding real issues. I think those issues are usually mole hills, however, and he makes mountains out of them. This seems to follow that pattern. I have no idea about how whoever makes the sensors for Leica makes them. I don't know if they stitch them together or not, but whatever is causing that flaw in the image, it ought to be relatively easy to deal with.
p.8 #3 · Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Yeah, I've read now on diglloyd that it is an actual technique used to produce sensors in some foundries.
I also remember reading he disqualified one of recent cameras for landscape use because of AF stripes, so I guess that's his thing, but he has some point here too .
Anyways, like suggested by the Leica tech guy, it seems like something that is covered by the warranty...
Steve Spencer wrote:
I haven't looked into this much at all. I have just read what Lloyd had on his site for free--I don't subscribe. From looking at his images, they do not look hard to fix. This is one of Lloyd's specialties--finding issues like this--and I think he has a track record of finding real issues. I think those issues are usually mole hills, however, and he makes mountains out of them. This seems to follow that pattern. I have no idea about how whoever makes the sensors for Leica makes them. I don't know if they stitch them together or not, but whatever is causing that flaw in the image, it ought to be relatively easy to deal with. ...Show more →
p.8 #4 · Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Steve Spencer wrote:
I haven't looked into this much at all. I have just read what Lloyd had on his site for free--I don't subscribe. From looking at his images, they do not look hard to fix. This is one of Lloyd's specialties--finding issues like this--and I think he has a track record of finding real issues. I think those issues are usually mole hills, however, and he makes mountains out of them. This seems to follow that pattern. I have no idea about how whoever makes the sensors for Leica makes them. I don't know if they stitch them together or not, but whatever is causing that flaw in the image, it ought to be relatively easy to deal with. ...Show more →
At $9K for an M10M body, it will be a mountain and not a molehill for me until Leica fixes it. If no one complained, these things would never get fixed. And seems strange to me to even think of accepting “it’s easy to fix in post” as a viable solution, even temporary. I’m just not going to take every photo I export from C1 into Photoshop and fix it — maybe if someone gave me the camera for free I would.
Jul 04, 2021 at 08:09 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.8 #5 · Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
highdesertmesa wrote:
At $9K for an M10M body, it will be a mountain and not a molehill for me until Leica fixes it. If no one complained, these things would never get fixed. And seems strange to me to even think of accepting “it’s easy to fix in post” as a viable solution, even temporary. I’m just not going to take every photo I export from C1 into Photoshop and fix it — maybe if someone gave me the camera for free I would.
Oh, I'm not saying it shouldn't be fixed right away. It should be fixed as fast as Leica can. And I'm not saying that people shouldn't consider it when buying the camera. They should. I am just saying I think it is in the range of a number of other effects that happen with digital sensors that we have seen in the last few years.
p.8 #7 · Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
highdesertmesa wrote:
Yes, and there is a thread on Leica Forum with others who have the issue. Some do not have the issue. Basically the minute I pushed contrast in post a vertical line would appear in the top center of the frame (fading out before reaching the center of the frame). The sensor is stitched together along that line in manufacturing, and something is getting screwed up along the way — maybe a voltage error, who knows. But the end result is a very slight difference in exposure from one side of the frame to the other that only shows at the top. Leica’s response to one person with the issue was it was normal if pushing the contrast in post (and gave the above manufacturing explanation) — which to me is BS because monochrome sensors need a lot to contrast added to emulate some popular high-contrast film/paper combinations. Not everyone intends to use a monochrome camera just for shooting low-contrast street photography! AND — the Q2M does not have the same issue, so clearly Leica needs to address the issue, IMO....Show more →
By telling you that this problem was normal if you boost contrast, Leica appears to be telling you that this is not an issue that they would repair under warranty? is that your understanding. Can you post an image with the vertical line present?
p.8 #8 · Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
chiron wrote:
By telling you that this problem was normal if you boost contrast, Leica appears to be telling you that this is not an issue that they would repair under warranty? is that your understanding. Can you post an image with the vertical line present?
p.8 #9 · Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
chiron wrote:
By telling you that this problem was normal if you boost contrast, Leica appears to be telling you that this is not an issue that they would repair under warranty? is that your understanding. Can you post an image with the vertical line present?
Leica didn’t tell me that, they told that to someone else in the thread about the issue on Leica Forum. Here’s my post over there showing an example.
And it doesn’t always take as much post processing as that image. I have some indoor shots of a blank wall where I can start to see it with about +50 to the contrast slider in C1. With zero adjustments, sometimes it’s invisible, but sometimes I can see it if I move the image left and right on my screen to simulate how someone might walk by a large print in a gallery.
I bought my M10M from Leica Miami, and they have asked both Leica USA and Leica Germany for a response. Waiting to hear back, and I returned it in the meantime. They also told me out of the couple hundred they’ve sold, I’m only the second person to have the issue. Great customer service though, accepting my return and taking the issue to the source right away.
p.8 #10 · Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Since I have a strong interest in the Q2M, I was looking at some sample files with soft gradients and found this source image (!NOT! mine). With some really aggressive editing, I was able to get the vertical line to show.
Follow-up to this issue. I decided to try another M10M (Leitz Wetzler), and this one does not have the issue, even with full + sliders on contrast, dehaze, and clarity in Capture One.
Leica Miami had asked Leica USA and Germany for a response to the issue back when I had my first M10M – no response has been given. I'm assuming that to mean Leica is not ready to or is unwilling to address the issue.
p.8 #14 · Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
After much reading I decided to buy a Tiffen Pearlescent 1/2 to complement my Haida NanoPro Mist Black 1/4. Haven't had time to really try it out yet, but the first impression is very positive. Compared to Haida it has less veiling flare and a little more shadow depth. Even though it keeps more contrast there is more highlight blooming. This is great, because I really like that effect. When I have something to share I'll post it here.
Thank you all for the comparisons, examples and info!
p.8 #15 · Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
On the video side, software emulation of filters is making great strides; see https://videovillage.co/scatter/ for the most impressive example I'm aware of. This is more convincing than the built-in diffusion tool in DaVinci Resolve and it recreates the looks of most of the popular diffusion filters, in all the strengths. The benefit is that the diffusion isn't baked in and you can pick and choose which filters and strengths to apply in post.
I don't get the sense that diffusion is as popular among stills photographers as it is among cinematographers, but if there's enough demand maybe someone will create a diffusion emulation package for stills that's better than the limited solutions currently available.
p.8 #16 · Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
HelenaN wrote:
After much reading I decided to buy a Tiffen Pearlescent 1/2 to complement my Haida NanoPro Mist Black 1/4. Haven't had time to really try it out yet, but the first impression is very positive. Compared to Haida it has less veiling flare and a little more shadow depth. Even though it keeps more contrast there is more highlight blooming. This is great, because I really like that effect. When I have something to share I'll post it here.
Thank you all for the comparisons, examples and info!
Please don't forget to share when you get a chance
p.8 #17 · Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Thank you for reminding me! I love the Tiffen Pearlescent filter and use it a lot. Lately we have had awful weather, so I have mostly done night shooting in town with it. Here is a bunch, all taken with A7RII and CV 75mm f/1.5 (last one was pure luck - it's not arranged):
p.8 #18 · Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Very nice photos!!!!
HelenaN wrote:
Thank you for reminding me! I love the Tiffen Pearlescent filter and use it a lot. Lately we have had awful weather, so I have mostly done night shooting in town with it. Here is a bunch, all taken with A7RII and CV 75mm f/1.5 (last one was pure luck - it's not arranged):
p.8 #19 · Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Love this thread. I use the Moment Cinebloom 10% with the 35GM for night street shots and love the halation, what I call a "Blade Runner" effect. Will post some shots as soon as I can. Meanwhile I'm really wanting the Tiffen Pearlescent which is a different look.
p.8 #20 · Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
HelenaN wrote:
Thank you for reminding me! I love the Tiffen Pearlescent filter and use it a lot. Lately we have had awful weather, so I have mostly done night shooting in town with it. Here is a bunch, all taken with A7RII and CV 75mm f/1.5 (last one was pure luck - it's not arranged):
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