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Archive 2021Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
p.2 #1Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
obwohl wrote:
I'm not complaining about focus problems, I am complaining about focus indicator being green (i.e. focus found) and fast pumping going on.
As above; common in af-c.
I'm not complaining about focus problems, I am complaining about focus indicator being green (i.e. focus found) and fast pumping going on.
As above; common in af-c.
Mar 24, 2021 at 05:40 AM
p.2 #2Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
You should try another copy, just to be sure.
Mar 24, 2021 at 05:44 AM
p.2 #3Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
DaveFP wrote:
As above; common in af-c.
At least it seems common on the A7R III, which is the body I've been using for the past few months. I even found an old thread about this : https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1521639/0.
I never noticed that because I use most frequently AF-S, especially since I got the A7R III. Before that, I shot a lot of portraits with an A7 III, using AF-C + Eye AF, and never noticed any pumping problem.
Anyway... I just tried AF-C on my A7R III, with the 35 GM and the 20 G : indeed, both lenses tend to pump, even in bright light and with good contrast (vertical lines, etc.). That being said, the pulsating looks more pronounced with the 35 GM (which also suffers from heavy breathing, don't know if it has anything to do with that ?). In both cases, with good light and contrasty subjects, pumping becomes barely noticeable the larger you open the aperture (that's probably also why I didn't noticed anything when shooting portraits with AF-C + Eye AF on my A7 III).
If I have some time in the next days I'll shoot some moving subjects at smaller apertures with the 35 GM, and see if AF-C remains accurate despite the annoying pumping... if I find volunteers I will also check eye-AF in classic portrait situations... I don't really need these features right now, but I wanna know my limits, especially for portraits...
obwohl wrote
I'm not complaining about focus problems, I am complaining about focus indicator being green (i.e. focus found) and fast pumping going on.At least it seems common on the A7R III, which is the body I've been using for the past few months. I even found an old thread about this : https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1521639/0.
I never noticed that because I use most frequently AF-S, especially since I got the A7R III. Before that, I shot a lot of portraits with an A7 III, using AF-C + Eye AF, and never noticed any pumping problem.
Anyway... I just tried AF-C on my A7R III, with the 35 GM and the 20 G : indeed, both lenses tend to pump, even in bright light and with good contrast (vertical lines, etc.). That being said, the pulsating looks more pronounced with the 35 GM (which also suffers from heavy breathing, don't know if it has anything to do with that ?). In both cases, with good light and contrasty subjects, pumping becomes barely noticeable the larger you open the aperture (that's probably also why I didn't noticed anything when shooting portraits with AF-C + Eye AF on my A7 III).
If I have some time in the next days I'll shoot some moving subjects at smaller apertures with the 35 GM, and see if AF-C remains accurate despite the annoying pumping... if I find volunteers I will also check eye-AF in classic portrait situations... I don't really need these features right now, but I wanna know my limits, especially for portraits...
Mar 24, 2021 at 09:28 AM
p.2 #4Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
Confused as to how you are getting pumping with the 35GM and 20G in afc? I don’t have the 20 but I have the 35 and haven’t seen this at all (or any other lens for that matter)
Mar 24, 2021 at 12:09 PM
p.2 #5Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
xpfloyd wrote:
Confused as to how you are getting pumping with the 35GM and 20G in afc? I don’t have the 20 but I have the 35 and haven’t seen this at all (or any other lens for that matter)
which body are you using ?
Confused as to how you are getting pumping with the 35GM and 20G in afc? I don’t have the 20 but I have the 35 and haven’t seen this at all (or any other lens for that matter)
which body are you using ?
Mar 24, 2021 at 01:08 PM
p.2 #6Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
Check you have the latest firmware installed
I had this issue with a body and samyang lens at one time awhile ago. It was a firmware issue
I had this issue with a body and samyang lens at one time awhile ago. It was a firmware issue
Mar 24, 2021 at 01:17 PM
p.2 #7Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
A7riii and a9ii
PhilG21 wrote:
xpfloyd wrote
Confused as to how you are getting pumping with the 35GM and 20G in afc? I don’t have the 20 but I have the 35 and haven’t seen this at all (or any other lens for that matter)Mar 24, 2021 at 01:53 PM
p.2 #8Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
GMPhotography wrote:
Check you have the latest firmware installed
I had this issue with a body and samyang lens at one time awhile ago. It was a firmware issue
Yup, I definitely have to check firmwares. I have the feeling the lens has no mechanical/hardware problem, I think I'm dealing with a combination of factors. Firmware are probably one of them. Mixing a specific Alpha body with specific lenses is of course another factor (I just tried AF-C in low-light with the Tamy 70-180... it just confirmed again how fantastic its autofocus can be). I also saw your posts in the old thread I mentioned about the A7R III, and after trying the settings you talked about (AF sensitivity, release priority vs balanced emphasis...) things were already going better. Anyway for now I only tested static subjects, that's another aspect of the question, to me it really doesn't make sense. I have to test AF-C on moving subjects, and especially on portraits. Will do as soon as I can !
@xpfloyd : I'm glad you don't have any issue here, don't feel troubled if others have different results ;-) Also, AF comparisons are never easy because everyone is testing their gear in very different situations with different settings, different firmwares - not to mention potential copy variations (although I don't think that's the main problem here).
Check you have the latest firmware installed
I had this issue with a body and samyang lens at one time awhile ago. It was a firmware issue
Yup, I definitely have to check firmwares. I have the feeling the lens has no mechanical/hardware problem, I think I'm dealing with a combination of factors. Firmware are probably one of them. Mixing a specific Alpha body with specific lenses is of course another factor (I just tried AF-C in low-light with the Tamy 70-180... it just confirmed again how fantastic its autofocus can be). I also saw your posts in the old thread I mentioned about the A7R III, and after trying the settings you talked about (AF sensitivity, release priority vs balanced emphasis...) things were already going better. Anyway for now I only tested static subjects, that's another aspect of the question, to me it really doesn't make sense. I have to test AF-C on moving subjects, and especially on portraits. Will do as soon as I can !
@xpfloyd : I'm glad you don't have any issue here, don't feel troubled if others have different results ;-) Also, AF comparisons are never easy because everyone is testing their gear in very different situations with different settings, different firmwares - not to mention potential copy variations (although I don't think that's the main problem here).
Mar 24, 2021 at 02:30 PM
p.2 #9Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
Hmm, this is worrying. The more I'm reading about 35GM, the more attractive 50GM becomes...
Come on, this 35 was supposed to be my dream lens (considering IQ, AF, size&weight) but with not-the-best AF and pumping it starts not to feel that way...
If you read threads about 24GM or more recent 12-24GM, there you can find people who actually exchanged their copies and got less to no pumping on the new ones. So, what I'm saying is that maybe you were unlucky to get bad copies...
Come on, this 35 was supposed to be my dream lens (considering IQ, AF, size&weight) but with not-the-best AF and pumping it starts not to feel that way...
If you read threads about 24GM or more recent 12-24GM, there you can find people who actually exchanged their copies and got less to no pumping on the new ones. So, what I'm saying is that maybe you were unlucky to get bad copies...
Mar 24, 2021 at 02:46 PM
p.2 #10Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
Phil - what focus area and aperture are you getting the issue with and I will try and replicate it
Mar 24, 2021 at 03:14 PM
p.2 #11Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
j4nu wrote:
Hmm, this is worrying. The more I'm reading about 35GM, the more attractive 50GM becomes...
Come on, this 35 was supposed to be my dream lens (considering IQ, AF, size&weight) but with not-the-best AF and pumping it starts not to feel that way...
If you read threads about 24GM or more recent 12-24GM, there you can find people who actually exchanged their copies and got less to no pumping on the new ones. So, what I'm saying is that maybe you were unlucky to get bad copies...
Same boat but do not lose faith. Since I was one of the first on this digital train back in the day. I've seen a lot but we have seen fixes and improvements too. There are plenty of bad copies. I went through 5 of the FE 35 1.4. Than you give up. We are not there yet
Hmm, this is worrying. The more I'm reading about 35GM, the more attractive 50GM becomes...
Come on, this 35 was supposed to be my dream lens (considering IQ, AF, size&weight) but with not-the-best AF and pumping it starts not to feel that way...
If you read threads about 24GM or more recent 12-24GM, there you can find people who actually exchanged their copies and got less to no pumping on the new ones. So, what I'm saying is that maybe you were unlucky to get bad copies...
Same boat but do not lose faith. Since I was one of the first on this digital train back in the day. I've seen a lot but we have seen fixes and improvements too. There are plenty of bad copies. I went through 5 of the FE 35 1.4. Than you give up. We are not there yet
Mar 24, 2021 at 03:20 PM
p.2 #12Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
j4nu wrote:
Hmm, this is worrying. The more I'm reading about 35GM, the more attractive 50GM becomes...
Come on, this 35 was supposed to be my dream lens (considering IQ, AF, size&weight) but with not-the-best AF and pumping it starts not to feel that way...
If you read threads about 24GM or more recent 12-24GM, there you can find people who actually exchanged their copies and got less to no pumping on the new ones. So, what I'm saying is that maybe you were unlucky to get bad copies...
Don't pay too much attention to my feedback. First, I'm not an "AF-C shooter", If I may say so. And most of all I have to do real-life tests, such as portraits. And check firmwares. I could be wrong but I have the feeling the hardware is fine (or likely to be improved by a future firmware release...).
Hmm, this is worrying. The more I'm reading about 35GM, the more attractive 50GM becomes...
Come on, this 35 was supposed to be my dream lens (considering IQ, AF, size&weight) but with not-the-best AF and pumping it starts not to feel that way...
If you read threads about 24GM or more recent 12-24GM, there you can find people who actually exchanged their copies and got less to no pumping on the new ones. So, what I'm saying is that maybe you were unlucky to get bad copies...
Don't pay too much attention to my feedback. First, I'm not an "AF-C shooter", If I may say so. And most of all I have to do real-life tests, such as portraits. And check firmwares. I could be wrong but I have the feeling the hardware is fine (or likely to be improved by a future firmware release...).
Mar 24, 2021 at 03:22 PM
p.2 #13Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
For the two people with this issue, can you confirm the aperture? Remember that on the a7riii the phase detect won’t work from f/8 and will pump
Mar 24, 2021 at 03:41 PM
p.2 #14Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
xpfloyd wrote:
Phil - what focus area and aperture are you getting the issue with and I will try and replicate it
I tried different apertures; pumping was clearly more noticeable the more I stopped down (try at f/8 for instance). And I tested pretty much every kind and size of area, with or without flexible modes, it didn't make any significant difference here. I also compared low vs sunny bright light. It's interesting to notice that I also got pumping in some bright light situations when contrast was poor (standing on the beach, facing the sea... almost only horizontal perspectives...). That's where I have a doubt; since I don't have much experience with AF-C (except with eye-AF for portraits), I don't know if it's "common" to get some focus-hunting when pointing a low-contrast subject in bright light.
Now keep also in mind the old thread I mentioned about the A7R III. Things already seem to get much better after changing some settings. Will test again very soon...
Phil - what focus area and aperture are you getting the issue with and I will try and replicate it
I tried different apertures; pumping was clearly more noticeable the more I stopped down (try at f/8 for instance). And I tested pretty much every kind and size of area, with or without flexible modes, it didn't make any significant difference here. I also compared low vs sunny bright light. It's interesting to notice that I also got pumping in some bright light situations when contrast was poor (standing on the beach, facing the sea... almost only horizontal perspectives...). That's where I have a doubt; since I don't have much experience with AF-C (except with eye-AF for portraits), I don't know if it's "common" to get some focus-hunting when pointing a low-contrast subject in bright light.
Now keep also in mind the old thread I mentioned about the A7R III. Things already seem to get much better after changing some settings. Will test again very soon...
Mar 24, 2021 at 03:43 PM
p.2 #15Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
xpfloyd wrote:
For the two people with this issue, can you confirm the aperture? Remember that on the a7riii the phase detect won’t work from f/8 and will pump
Didn't know that ! Will test more under f/8 then
For the two people with this issue, can you confirm the aperture? Remember that on the a7riii the phase detect won’t work from f/8 and will pump
Didn't know that ! Will test more under f/8 then
Mar 24, 2021 at 03:45 PM
p.2 #16Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
Someone else might correct me but I’m sure f/8 is the limit of PDAF. I’ll test mine tomorrow on both bodies but the only time I’ve ever had pumping on any lens is when I’ve been at the limit of pdaf. Switching to AFS sorts it but I’ve shot afc 99.9% of the time since I switched to Sony when the original a7r came out
Edit - also keep in mind that the Sony pdaf system will only lock to vertical lines and will struggle to lock with horizontal lines. This is due to the af points not being cross type. It’s easily verified, draw a horizontal line and a vertical line on a bit of paper and pin it up then try and focus on each one.
These aren’t issues with the lens, they are just characteristics of the cameras AF design
PhilG21 wrote:
Didn't know that ! Will test more under f/8 then
Edit - also keep in mind that the Sony pdaf system will only lock to vertical lines and will struggle to lock with horizontal lines. This is due to the af points not being cross type. It’s easily verified, draw a horizontal line and a vertical line on a bit of paper and pin it up then try and focus on each one.
These aren’t issues with the lens, they are just characteristics of the cameras AF design
PhilG21 wrote:
xpfloyd wrote
For the two people with this issue, can you confirm the aperture? Remember that on the a7riii the phase detect won’t work from f/8 and will pumpMar 24, 2021 at 03:52 PM
p.2 #17Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
xpfloyd wrote:
Someone else might correct me but I’m sure f/8 is the limit of PDAF. I’ll test mine tomorrow on both bodies but the only time I’ve ever had pumping on any lens is when I’ve been at the limit of pdaf. Switching to AFS sorts it but I’ve shot afc 99.9% of the time since I switched to Sony when the original a7r came out
Edit - also keep in mind that the Sony pdaf system will only lock to vertical lines and will struggle to lock with horizontal lines. This is due to the af points not being cross...Show more →Didn't know that ! Will test more under f/8 then
Yep, as mentioned before I took the vertical lines into account. But I wasn't familiar with the PDAF limit, thank you for this clarification.
With my new AF settings (AF track sensitivity set to 3, release priority mode instead of balanced emphasis), being more careful about choosing contrasty areas, and staying under f/8, it's already much, much better. And that's for low light - it's already evening in my country. I have the feeling that a slight pumping (i.e. when it becomes almost not noticeable) could simply be caused by the 35GM's heavy focus breathing and wouldn't necessarily affect the focus accuracy. I have to test this tomorrow in bright light (and to take real pictures to check focus accuracy). And asap, some eye-AF tests, because it's another specific AF-C mode (sometimes with problems of its own !).
Someone else might correct me but I’m sure f/8 is the limit of PDAF. I’ll test mine tomorrow on both bodies but the only time I’ve ever had pumping on any lens is when I’ve been at the limit of pdaf. Switching to AFS sorts it but I’ve shot afc 99.9% of the time since I switched to Sony when the original a7r came out
Edit - also keep in mind that the Sony pdaf system will only lock to vertical lines and will struggle to lock with horizontal lines. This is due to the af points not being cross...Show more →
PhilG21 wrote
xpfloyd wrote
For the two people with this issue, can you confirm the aperture? Remember that on the a7riii the phase detect won’t work from f/8 and will pumpYep, as mentioned before I took the vertical lines into account. But I wasn't familiar with the PDAF limit, thank you for this clarification.
With my new AF settings (AF track sensitivity set to 3, release priority mode instead of balanced emphasis), being more careful about choosing contrasty areas, and staying under f/8, it's already much, much better. And that's for low light - it's already evening in my country. I have the feeling that a slight pumping (i.e. when it becomes almost not noticeable) could simply be caused by the 35GM's heavy focus breathing and wouldn't necessarily affect the focus accuracy. I have to test this tomorrow in bright light (and to take real pictures to check focus accuracy). And asap, some eye-AF tests, because it's another specific AF-C mode (sometimes with problems of its own !).
Mar 24, 2021 at 04:17 PM
p.2 #18Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
Today I tried again - and was very disappointed. I was shooting tethered via my smartphone (imaging edge). And while it quite often got my eyes exactly in focus (so the AF-Eye-priority worked because that can not be a conincidence with 1.4 at 50 cm distance) - it denied to focus (with identical settings!) in pretty good light for about 3 minutes. Ridicolous. And after that it started to wobble back and forth in AF-C again - see my video of my first post. It still is NOT my smartphone wobbling in this video but the Sony, period.
When people are saying it has to do with low-light, well, my smartphone has a better AF than my A7R4 with 35mm 1.4 GM then.
In this video you can see another owner of the 35 GM having serious AF issues.
https://youtu.be/V9fhI6X2M0M?t=239
When people are saying it has to do with low-light, well, my smartphone has a better AF than my A7R4 with 35mm 1.4 GM then.
In this video you can see another owner of the 35 GM having serious AF issues.
https://youtu.be/V9fhI6X2M0M?t=239
Apr 17, 2021 at 04:01 PM
p.2 #19Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
obwohl wrote:
Today I tried again - and was very disappointed. I was shooting tethered via my smartphone (imaging edge). And while it quite often got my eyes exactly in focus (so the AF-Eye-priority worked because that can not be a conincidence with 1.4 at 50 cm distance) - it denied to focus (with identical settings!) in pretty good light for about 3 minutes. Ridicolous. And after that it started to wobble back and forth in AF-C again - see my video of my first post. It still is NOT my smartphone wobbling in this video but the Sony, period.
When people...Show more →
Did you try locking on a vertical line?
Today I tried again - and was very disappointed. I was shooting tethered via my smartphone (imaging edge). And while it quite often got my eyes exactly in focus (so the AF-Eye-priority worked because that can not be a conincidence with 1.4 at 50 cm distance) - it denied to focus (with identical settings!) in pretty good light for about 3 minutes. Ridicolous. And after that it started to wobble back and forth in AF-C again - see my video of my first post. It still is NOT my smartphone wobbling in this video but the Sony, period.
When people...Show more →
Did you try locking on a vertical line?
Apr 17, 2021 at 04:11 PM
p.2 #20Strange AF pumping on 35 GM 1.4 and A7R4
obwohl wrote:
Today I tried again - and was very disappointed. I was shooting tethered via my smartphone (imaging edge). And while it quite often got my eyes exactly in focus (so the AF-Eye-priority worked because that can not be a conincidence with 1.4 at 50 cm distance) - it denied to focus (with identical settings!) in pretty good light for about 3 minutes. Ridicolous. And after that it started to wobble back and forth in AF-C again - see my video of my first post. It still is NOT my smartphone wobbling in this video but the Sony, period.
When people...Show more →
Am I missing something from the video? Are the "another owner's serious issues" the single focus readjustment made more apparent due to focus breathing?
Anyways, I think you have a bad copy, as I wrote already a couple of times. It happened with 24GM and 12-24GM.
My 35GM pumps wildly only when trying to focus before MFD and I shot against heavily backlit window + video quite a few times already.
I also think you would get better responses if you posted a better video (without the phone pumping)
...
Today I tried again - and was very disappointed. I was shooting tethered via my smartphone (imaging edge). And while it quite often got my eyes exactly in focus (so the AF-Eye-priority worked because that can not be a conincidence with 1.4 at 50 cm distance) - it denied to focus (with identical settings!) in pretty good light for about 3 minutes. Ridicolous. And after that it started to wobble back and forth in AF-C again - see my video of my first post. It still is NOT my smartphone wobbling in this video but the Sony, period.
When people...Show more →
Am I missing something from the video? Are the "another owner's serious issues" the single focus readjustment made more apparent due to focus breathing?
Anyways, I think you have a bad copy, as I wrote already a couple of times. It happened with 24GM and 12-24GM.
My 35GM pumps wildly only when trying to focus before MFD and I shot against heavily backlit window + video quite a few times already.
I also think you would get better responses if you posted a better video (without the phone pumping)
...Apr 17, 2021 at 04:20 PM