Fred Miranda wrote:
It's very likely it will outperform the Loxia 35 even stopped down so I think that's an easier decision. However, I'm not sure that the stronger axial correction will be more important than AF in the case of the new Sigma. That will depend on one's priorities.
The Sigma's rendering is pleasant to my eyes.
Throw in the 35/1.4 GM to the mix and it will be very hard to choose The one.
Agreed, I’d be very surprised if it didn’t outperform the L35 stopped down as well. And the real question will be are sun stars and a LoCA improvement worth more than AF and lovely OOF when one is choosing a compact 35.
But the REAL question is......will look like the other A-L lenses in E mount, or will it have SE looks?
Feb 11, 2021 at 09:35 PM
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DavidBM wrote:
Agreed, I’d be very surprised if it didn’t outperform the L35 stopped down as well. And the real question will be are sun stars and a LoCA improvement worth more than AF and lovely OOF when one is choosing a compact 35.
But the REAL question is......will look like the other A-L lenses in E mount, or will it have SE looks?
For me the announcement of this lens has thrown the whole plan for my Sony setup in question. I have the CV 15 which I will keep. I have the Loxia 21 which I will keep, but was planning on going with the 7 Artisans 28 f/1.4, the CV 50 f/2 APO, and the Contax C/Y 100 f/3.5 as a five lens set. I thought I would supplement that with the CV 35 f/1.2 SE and the CVM 75 f/1.5. Now I am think the CV 15, Loxia 21, this CV 35 f/2 and the CV 75 f/1.5 might make a really nice 4 lens kit and if I wanted a longer lens a nice 135 would work well. I really like that the CV 50 f/2 with it floating element would work well as a close up lens with a tube, and I think I would miss that, but this 35 might be ok for that. I could also take my CV 65 f/2 APO macro when I know I would plan to do a lot of close ups, but as much as I like that lens I can't see it making the travel kit very often.
DavidBM wrote:
Agreed, I’d be very surprised if it didn’t outperform the L35 stopped down as well. And the real question will be are sun stars and a LoCA improvement worth more than AF and lovely OOF when one is choosing a compact 35.
But the REAL question is......will look like the other A-L lenses in E mount, or will it have SE looks?
I think it is almost certain to have the traditional design, in line with the existing APO's. I'd say the real question is: is it a real 35mm, unlike the 1.2 which cheats a bit being longer; I'd be happy if it was even a bit wider than 35mm.
I recently looked through the whole Loxia image thread and came away with the impression that I most liked the images from the Loxia 35: there is something about the way that lens renders that I find appealing; that said, from a sheer technical standpoint, I expect the new Voigt apo 35 to crush it; the real issue is - what does that do to the OOF rendering (I'm hoping for at least neutral, like the 50 apo). I suspect you rendering guys are going to prefer the Sigma.
Interesting point: I see Cosina is planning to launch the M-mount version before the E-mount: possible sign?
Steve Spencer wrote:
For me the announcement of this lens has thrown the whole plan for my Sony setup in question. I have the CV 15 which I will keep. I have the Loxia 21 which I will keep, but was planning on going with the 7 Artisans 28 f/1.4, the CV 50 f/2 APO, and the Contax C/Y 100 f/3.5 as a five lens set. I thought I would supplement that with the CV 35 f/1.2 SE and the CVM 75 f/1.5. Now I am think the CV 15, Loxia 21, this CV 35 f/2 and the CV 75 f/1.5 might make a really nice 4 lens kit and if I wanted a longer lens a nice 135 would work well. I really like that the CV 50 f/2 with it floating element would work well as a close up lens with a tube, and I think I would miss that, but this 35 might be ok for that. I could also take my CV 65 f/2 APO macro when I know I would plan to do a lot of close ups, but as much as I like that lens I can't see it making the travel kit very often....Show more →
The CV 35/2 is rough off-axis with lots of cat's eye and swirl and busy-ness, even on the m240. On the other hand, it's tiny, has good lateral and axial CA correction, high sharpness and contrast on axis WO but does draw a little more characterfully than the 35/1.7 or 1.2iii in my experience regarding colors and contrast. The highlights feel like they are handled a bit less tamely too, which I like.
It's the last CV 35mm standing for me. Mainly on account of the size, and I can zone focus or MF it very quickly. I find I use mine surprisingly often despite it's a bit wild. I wonder if you'd find the same.
The G 21/2.8, CV 35/2 and 73/1.5 makes my tiny but capable travel kit since the 35/2 arrived. Similar to your thinking, just smaller and I don't need the UWA.
As much as I like the new 35i, I really do prefer MF for my uses. I'll keep and use both.
It will have a different personality within the shared Voigtlander drawing style ('house style'), I believe. It will necessarily be complex to be a level above say, the f1.2 35-40mm CV lenses and close in on eradicating field curvature (please). Maybe 13/11, several APD and they will use asph surfacing in at least two, maybe more. Specs are moving fast in primes at present, kind of an arms race.
They will be 'in for a penny, in for a pound', as they have had a good sighting of the opposition's products. Might be a little heavy, 375g or more. They have to keep it small, for the mandatory M version to follow. 35s tend to see differently to 50mm lenses. It might be bold and bright where the 50/2 is mellow and clean. Think how a wider APO-Lanthar would capture that extra detail that comes with the wider angle of view. 35s are a clean break wider, where 50s are more like a shorter version of 65-75mm. Hope for a scalloped focus ring. Declick if little breathing.
I was expecting Cosina to announce the new lenses today (2/12) but there has been no announcement and it's already evening in Japan. I guess it will happen next week instead. Normally these new announcements would have been aligned with CP+ (2/25-28) but this year CP+ is online only (due to Covid-19) and Cosina doesn't appear to be participating so I think they will not wait for that.
Feb 12, 2021 at 05:10 AM
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nehemiahphoto wrote:
The CV 35/2 is rough off-axis with lots of cat's eye and swirl and busy-ness, even on the m240. On the other hand, it's tiny, has good lateral and axial CA correction, high sharpness and contrast on axis WO but does draw a little more characterfully than the 35/1.7 or 1.2iii in my experience regarding colors and contrast. The highlights feel like they are handled a bit less tamely too, which I like.
It's the last CV 35mm standing for me. Mainly on account of the size, and I can zone focus or MF it very quickly. I find I use mine surprisingly often despite it's a bit wild. I wonder if you'd find the same.
The G 21/2.8, CV 35/2 and 73/1.5 makes my tiny but capable travel kit since the 35/2 arrived. Similar to your thinking, just smaller and I don't need the UWA.
As much as I like the new 35i, I really do prefer MF for my uses. I'll keep and use both....Show more →
For CV 35 f/2 I should have been more clear. What I am hoping is that the new CV 35 f/2 APO is to my liking. The 50 f/2 APO looks wonderful, so I have high hopes for the 35 f/2 APO. But yes a 21, 35, 75 kit I think would be really nice for travel (maybe adding on either end if I thought it was needed) and for Sony I know I would be happy with the Loxia 21, CV 35 f/2 APO, and CVM 75 f/1.5. It might even make me move away from the 21, 28, 50, 100 kit I had planned.
Steve Spencer wrote:
For CV 35 f/2 I should have been more clear. What I am hoping is that the new CV 35 f/2 APO is to my liking. The 50 f/2 APO looks wonderful, so I have high hopes for the 35 f/2 APO. But yes a 21, 35, 75 kit I think would be really nice for travel (maybe adding on either end if I thought it was needed) and for Sony I know I would be happy with the Loxia 21, CV 35 f/2 APO, and CVM 75 f/1.5. It might even make me move away from the 21, 28, 50, 100 kit I had planned....Show more →
Ahh—I misaasumed. I should have been more mindful of the thread title! 21/35/75 is a great kit.
Let me offer some guesses in how this 35 f/2 APO will differentiate itself from Sigma 35 f/2 DN, the Sony 35 f/1.4 GM, and the Loxia 35 f/2.
One obvious differentiation between the Sigma and the Sony is that it will be manual focus and although most might prefer AF there are some of us that actually prefer manual focus. Second, I think compared to the Sigma, Sony, and the Loxia it will have less axial CA at wider apertures. Third compared to the Loxia I expect it to both be a little sharper wide open and to have less busy bokeh at wider apertures. Fourth, I expect it to differentiate itself from all these lenses by having the same aperture blades as the CV 50 f/2 APO for FE, which has rounded aperture for good bokeh balls at f/2 and f/2.8 but straight aperture blades at narrower apertures for well defined sunstars. Fifth, I expect this lens will have a floating elements design which will allow better close up performance. Neither the Sigma, nor the Loxia have such a design (I don't know about the Sony GM).
What remains to be seen is the rendering. How is the bokeh including in the transition zones? How is the look for portraits? How about landscapes? Does it having a floating element for good close up performance? I expect it will, but we don't know yet. The CV 50 f/2 APO succeeds, IMO, as a portrait lens, a landscape lens, and a lens for close ups. I really value that versatility for a travel lens. If this lens is similar I will be very interested. If it falls short I will probably get the CV 50 f/2 APO instead and at some point get the CV 35 f/1.2 SE at this focal length.
I'm sort of hoping we get the aperture blades from the VM version of the CV 50/2 APO. Having a rounded aperture at f/2, f/2.8 and f/5.6 seems like a positive to me. I guess there are some people who want better sunstars at f/5.6 though.
-Tim
Steve Spencer wrote:
Let me offer some guesses in how this 35 f/2 APO will differentiate itself from Sigma 35 f/2 DN, the Sony 35 f/1.4 GM, and the Loxia 35 f/2.
One obvious differentiation between the Sigma and the Sony is that it will be manual focus and although most might prefer AF there are some of us that actually prefer manual focus. Second, I think compared to the Sigma, Sony, and the Loxia it will have less axial CA at wider apertures. Third compared to the Loxia I expect it to both be a little sharper wide open and to have less busy bokeh at wider apertures. Fourth, I expect it to differentiate itself from all these lenses by having the same aperture blades as the CV 50 f/2 APO for FE, which has rounded aperture for good bokeh balls at f/2 and f/2.8 but straight aperture blades at narrower apertures for well defined sunstars. Fifth, I expect this lens will have a floating elements design which will allow better close up performance. Neither the Sigma, nor the Loxia have such a design (I don't know about the Sony GM).
What remains to be seen is the rendering. How is the bokeh including in the transition zones? How is the look for portraits? How about landscapes? Does it having a floating element for good close up performance? I expect it will, but we don't know yet. The CV 50 f/2 APO succeeds, IMO, as a portrait lens, a landscape lens, and a lens for close ups. I really value that versatility for a travel lens. If this lens is similar I will be very interested. If it falls short I will probably get the CV 50 f/2 APO instead and at some point get the CV 35 f/1.2 SE at this focal length. ...Show more →
Steve Spencer wrote:
Let me offer some guesses in how this 35 f/2 APO will differentiate itself from Sigma 35 f/2 DN, the Sony 35 f/1.4 GM, and the Loxia 35 f/2.
One obvious differentiation between the Sigma and the Sony is that it will be manual focus and although most might prefer AF there are some of us that actually prefer manual focus. Second, I think compared to the Sigma, Sony, and the Loxia it will have less axial CA at wider apertures. Third compared to the Loxia I expect it to both be a little sharper wide open ....
The 35/2 APO CV better be WAY sharper than the 35 Lox wide open as the 35 Lox is very unimpressive for sharpness anywhere but in the very middle 1/3 or so of the frame wide open. Lots and lots of astigmatism wide open away from the center.
Worse by far of any of the Lox lenses.
My only question about this lens is how heavy and how long it will be compared to the Sigma 35/2 and the Sony 35/2.8 (which is admittedly small). If it's reasonably short (I don't care if the diameter is on the larger side) and the weight in the 300g range I'm in.
This lens could be my answer to my ageing RX1RII - 35/2 APO on an A7C.
jhinkey wrote:
The 35/2 APO CV better be WAY sharper than the 35 Lox wide open as the 35 Lox is very unimpressive for sharpness anywhere but in the very middle 1/3 or so of the frame wide open. Lots and lots of astigmatism wide open away from the center.
Worse by far of any of the Lox lenses.
At f/2 and f/2.8, I expect the difference between the new CV 35/2 APO and the Loxia 35/2 to be night and day. The Loxia really needs f/8 to overcome its moderate field curvature, color aberrations and astigmatism. Still, even stopped down, I think the new Voigtlander will be noticeable better in some areas.
My only question about this lens is how heavy and how long it will be compared to the Sigma 35/2 and the Sony 35/2.8 (which is admittedly small). If it's reasonably short (I don't care if the diameter is on the larger side) and the weight in the 300g range I'm in.
I think it will be quite compact, only a bit longer than the CV 50/2 APO. The Sigma 35/2 DG DN will put a good fight IMO.
One question is with these new Voigtlanders and the sigma I-series. Will Zeiss stop making loxias? The Loxia 35 is almost redundant. Both the Loxia 35 and 50 are all of a sudden getting long in the tooth.
No doubt the Loxia 21, 25 and 85 are exceptional lenses and will be around for a while yet. But I can see sigma and Voigtlander knocking on their doors soon too.
Fred Miranda wrote:
At f/2 and f/2.8, I expect the difference between the new CV 35/2 APO and the Loxia 35/2 to be night and day. The Loxia really needs f/8 to overcome its moderate field curvature, color aberrations and astigmatism. Still, even stopped down, I think the new Voigtlander will be noticeable better in some areas.
I think it will be quite compact, only a bit longer than the CV 50/2 APO. The Sigma 35/2 DG DN will put a good fight IMO.
Let`s see - it doesn't necessarily need to be longer than the 50mm f2 APO. I personally hope it will be a bit shorter even !
Feb 13, 2021 at 05:50 AM
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nikonos6 wrote:
Let`s see - it doesn't necessarily need to be longer than the 50mm f2 APO. I personally hope it will be a bit shorter even !
Unfortunately I think Fred is right. When we look at the CV 50 f/1.2 SE vs. the CV 35 f/1.2 SE, the 50mm lens is actually a bit shorter (58.5mm vs. 59.9mm). I expect something similar with the f/2 APO lenses.
Given that the VM version shares the same hood as the VM 50 APO, it will be the same diameter. Length can be more difficult to guess. The 50 APO is already a bit long for a 50. If the 35 APO shares a similar optical design with minimal tweaks, then I'd guess it will be a similar length.
There is a precedent for this in the Voigtlander family. The VM 35/1.7 is quite long for a 35mm lens, especially compared to other ~f/2 rangefinder designs from either Voigtlander, Leica or Zeiss (their 35/2 is a bit on the long side too).
vdo1 wrote:
Looking forward to the "rendering" and "sunstars" oohs and aahs that Cosina always ellicits. Hopefully this one will have "micro-contrast" too
As someone who is not a fan of blatant sunstars, I really, really hope the VM version has a fully circular aperture at f/2.8 and f/5.6 like the VM 50 APO!!
I would be fine if the CV 35/2 APO were the same size (length & diam) as the Lox 35/2.
As far as aperture blades - sure make them round at f2.8 and maybe f/4, but by f/5.6 your depth of field will kill any sense of bokeh, so make the sunstars pop out at f/5.6 and I'd be really happy with that.
Hopefully more information soon will come out.
Opinions might reflect whether posters are interested in the E or the M. The 50/2 APO for Sony is a great size, fits in a small bag even with its optimised hood. If Cosina can spin optimal image quality from a 35/2 APO (for Sony) I'd be very happy with it being a little larger and heavier. Compromises!
But it probably will not be too different as it shares many design features with the (March release) VM item, which is size-constrained. And Leica users go first this time, the Sony lens arrives in April. Might indicate they needed to spend more time on the Sony version lens, for whatever reason.
The last Loxia was released three years ago next month. Given the time taken to produce good prime lenses (up to a year), unless they have rediscovered their Loxia mojo, best to prepare to move on, for new buyers at least - though resale is turning up great Loxia bargains here.
There may even have been talks between CZ and Cosina re this MF lens situation. If Zeiss left a large gravesite hole, Cosina are doing the job of filling it in to level ground, and have already added a mound on top.
