p.1 #1 · Has anyone yet used the A7C anti-flicker setting under LED lights?
I am interested to know if anyone has had a chance yet to use the A7C's antiflicker setting under LED lights and has had a chance to assess how well the anti-flicker setting works with the half-mechanical/half-EFCS shutter?
Each brand of lights will vary slightly, so the more people who chime in the better!
This camera has a unique shutter, so it is worth figuring out how well Sony has handled the LED problem with its antiflicker setting.
p.1 #2 · Has anyone yet used the A7C anti-flicker setting under LED lights?
I am as well and we brought this up the other day. This is important and needs to be tested. I'm sooooo tempted to buy this damn thing. For me it's just another challenge but it is important to know.
p.1 #3 · Has anyone yet used the A7C anti-flicker setting under LED lights?
It is a debit on my A7R and likely other models, too. I am not using my A7R anymore to take photos with LED lights present. The flicker is shown in the EVF but also then visible in the final photo as blacked out area in a LED light chain. This issue was only sporadically mentioned in the past, glad to see that it gained some momentum and might have been resolved in the A7C.
p.1 #4 · Has anyone yet used the A7C anti-flicker setting under LED lights?
retrofocus wrote:
It is a debit on my A7R and likely other models, too. I am not using my A7R anymore to take photos with LED lights present. The flicker is shown in the EVF but also then visible in the final photo as blacked out area in a LED light chain. This issue was only sporadically mentioned in the past, glad to see that it gained some momentum and might have been resolved in the A7C.
We need someone who has an A7C and access to LED lights to check this out. As I understand the physics of the LED/banding problem, some implementations of EFCS may cause banding and others may not. There is also the question of how effective the anti-flicker setting. This may not matter to some people but may matter a lot to others, like Guy.
p.1 #5 · Has anyone yet used the A7C anti-flicker setting under LED lights?
For me it’s about stage lighting as more venues are turning to LED alighting as it’s cheaper, cooler , lighter and smaller and it can be fine tuned via color balance. Used a lot on backgrounds but venue I shoot a lot is stage lighting where it’s still mixed with movers and such. So it’s a variety of different types. As it stands today the only cam that can use silent shutter is the A9 as the A7iii I get banding. It’s obvious just looking at a playback image on camera. So easy to spot
All the A7 series the solution is mechanical shutter with a anti flicker setting. Most times I find it works but I never got serious about testing it under different venues with LEDs.
If you shoot anytype of factory type work, you could run into it as a lot of newer buildings are turning to LED.
It has some great benefits. It don’t run hot and it’s cheaper to run as the big benefits.
p.1 #6 · Has anyone yet used the A7C anti-flicker setting under LED lights?
GMPhotography wrote:
For me it’s about stage lighting as more venues are turning to LED alighting as it’s cheaper, cooler , lighter and smaller and it can be fine tuned via color balance. Used a lot on backgrounds but venue I shoot a lot is stage lighting where it’s still mixed with movers and such. So it’s a variety of different types. As it stands today the only cam that can use silent shutter is the A9 as the A7iii I get banding. It’s obvious just looking at a playback image on camera. So easy to spot
All the A7 series the solution is mechanical shutter with a anti flicker setting. Most times I find it works but I never got serious about testing it under different venues with LEDs.
If you shoot anytype of factory type work, you could run into it as a lot of newer buildings are turning to LED.
It has some great benefits. It don’t run hot and it’s cheaper to run as the big benefits.
p.1 #8 · Has anyone yet used the A7C anti-flicker setting under LED lights?
Anti-flicker is to match the intensity and color of artificial lighting from one shot to the next, not to solve banding. I've seen the issue plenty of times in weddings I used to edit, where lights on walls and chandeliers at the reception hall changed in brightness from one shot to the next. Anti-flicker scans the lighting pulses and releases the shutter at peak intensity. Because of this, there may be a slight delay from when you press the shutter button to when the shutter actually releases.
All of this does not change the effect of banding. That's 100% based on the readout speed of the sensor, and can only be avoided by using mechanical shutter (partial or full), along with slower/moderate shutter speeds (even full mechanical can band at high speeds). You can also get around it using electronic shutter, but you need to be around 1/30 (the A7C/A7 III sensor's scan duration) or slower to do it, limiting its usefulness.
p.1 #10 · Has anyone yet used the A7C anti-flicker setting under LED lights?
chiron wrote:
The thread is asking specifically about the A7C.
I asked about specifically this statement as pointed out earlier: All the A7 series the solution is mechanical shutter with a anti flicker setting.
Is this only valid for the A7C?
p.1 #11 · Has anyone yet used the A7C anti-flicker setting under LED lights?
BlueBomberTurbo wrote:
Anti-flicker is to match the intensity and color of artificial lighting from one shot to the next, not to solve banding. I've seen the issue plenty of times in weddings I used to edit, where lights on walls and chandeliers at the reception hall changed in brightness from one shot to the next. Anti-flicker scans the lighting pulses and releases the shutter at peak intensity. Because of this, there may be a slight delay from when you press the shutter button to when the shutter actually releases.
All of this does not change the effect of banding. That's 100% based on the readout speed of the sensor, and can only be avoided by using mechanical shutter (partial or full), along with slower/moderate shutter speeds (even full mechanical can band at high speeds). You can also get around it using electronic shutter, but you need to be around 1/30 (the A7C/A7 III sensor's scan duration) or slower to do it, limiting its usefulness. ...Show more →
Let me clarify what is really being asked here . We all know already that only the A9 will work with LED lighting as the read out speed on the sensor is quick enough not to cause banding.
Im at least a 150 k images dealing with this problem. Secondly we have to switch to mechnicial shutter to overcome this and the banding that happens. The Anti -Flicker works with mechanical shutter to smooth out that transition inside the banding scan . When im shooting on mechnical shutter I dont run into any banding with Anti-Flicker on at the same time.
The question here is on the A7c is the Anti-Flicker setting acceptable to handle LED lighting as that in itself has different scan speeds( not sure of that name lets use scan speed for now) but I typically shoot around 1/320 of a second so its pretty fast on mechanical shuttere I do not get banding with anti flicker on . Now im shooting in the thousands per day. This is what occurs both in LA and in NY when we produce our big modeling and talent shows.
So what I want to know is where are the limits on the A7C if there are any. Ive shot the A9 and the A7III not to mention sometimes my A7rIV and previously the A7rIII which I shot mechanical shutter . Also we are not speaking of any camera without a electronic shutter or silent shooting which the A7r was not
p.1 #12 · Has anyone yet used the A7C anti-flicker setting under LED lights?
GMPhotography wrote:
Let me clarify what is really being asked here . We all know already that only the A9 will work with LED lighting as the read out speed on the sensor is quick enough not to cause banding.
Im at least a 150 k images dealing with this problem. Secondly we have to switch to mechnicial shutter to overcome this and the banding that happens. The Anti -Flicker works with mechanical shutter to smooth out that transition inside the banding scan . When im shooting on mechnical shutter I dont run into any banding with Anti-Flicker on at the same time.
The question here is on the A7c is the Anti-Flicker setting acceptable to handle LED lighting as that in itself has different scan speeds( not sure of that name lets use scan speed for now) but I typically shoot around 1/320 of a second so its pretty fast on mechanical shuttere I do not get banding with anti flicker on . Now im shooting in the thousands per day. This is what occurs both in LA and in NY when we produce our big modeling and talent shows.
So what I want to know is where are the limits on the A7C if there are any. Ive shot the A9 and the A7III not to mention sometimes my A7rIV and previously the A7rIII which I shot mechanical shutter . Also we are not speaking of any camera without a electronic shutter or silent shooting which the A7r was not...Show more →
Yes, thanks for noticing what people were misunderstanding and for clarifying Guy.
The A7C has an atypical shutter--it does not have a full mechanical mode with both a first and second mechanical shutter. Instead, it has only EFCS, which then can be combined with either an electronic second shutter (for full electronic silent shooting) or with a mechanical second shutter to yield a hybrid electronic-mechanical shutter.
The full electronic shutter on the A7C, as on every Sony other than the A9, will produce banding under LED lights.
The question that Guy and I are trying to get answered is whether the A7C in hybrid mode (EFCS + mechanical second shutter), and with its anti-flicker setting turned on, produces any banding under LED lighting.
The only way to answer this definitively is if you have an A7C and access to LED lighting.
p.1 #13 · Has anyone yet used the A7C anti-flicker setting under LED lights?
chiron wrote:
Yes, thanks for noticing what people were misunderstanding and for clarifying Guy.
The A7C has an atypical shutter--it does not have a full mechanical mode with both a first and second mechanical shutter. Instead, it has only EFCS, which then can be combined with either an electronic second shutter (for full electronic silent shooting) or with a mechanical second shutter to yield a hybrid electronic-mechanical shutter.
The full electronic shutter on the A7C, as on every Sony other than the A9, will produce banding under LED lights.
The question that Guy and I are trying to get answered is whether the A7C in hybrid mode (EFCS + mechanical second shutter), and with its anti-flicker setting turned on, produces any banding under LED lighting.
The only way to answer this definitively is if you have an A7C and access to LED lighting....Show more →
I may have to buy the dang thing.
More the point here is most folks look at what appeals or works normally for them. Which is understandable but it’s when you get thrown a curve ball, what do you do than if your gear can’t cooperate for you. I’ve been around so long I have all those questions to figure out what happens when a client calls throws that curve ball, do I bite or do I turn it down. Why I say many times do that homework, just so you know what the heck you got in your hands. Trust me very few and I mean very few folks are thinking about this one but it can be a huge downfall if it’s not working as needed. Digital did not make anything easier, just added more problems.
p.1 #14 · Has anyone yet used the A7C anti-flicker setting under LED lights?
chiron wrote:
Yes, thanks for noticing what people were misunderstanding and for clarifying Guy.
The A7C has an atypical shutter--it does not have a full mechanical mode with both a first and second mechanical shutter. Instead, it has only EFCS, which then can be combined with either an electronic second shutter (for full electronic silent shooting) or with a mechanical second shutter to yield a hybrid electronic-mechanical shutter.
The full electronic shutter on the A7C, as on every Sony other than the A9, will produce banding under LED lights.
The question that Guy and I are trying to get answered is whether the A7C in hybrid mode (EFCS + mechanical second shutter), and with its anti-flicker setting turned on, produces any banding under LED lighting.
The only way to answer this definitively is if you have an A7C and access to LED lighting....Show more →
I may have to buy the dang thing.
More the point here is most folks look at what appeals or works normally for them. Which is understandable but it’s when you get thrown a curve ball, what do you do than if your gear can’t cooperate for you. I’ve been around so long I have all those questions to figure out what happens when a client calls throws that curve ball, do I bite or do I turn it down. Why I say many times do that homework, just so you know what the heck you got in your hands. Trust me very few and I mean very few folks are thinking about this one but it can be a huge downfall if it’s not working as needed. Digital did not make anything easier, just added more problems.
p.1 #15 · Has anyone yet used the A7C anti-flicker setting under LED lights?
chiron wrote:
The question that Guy and I are trying to get answered is whether the A7C in hybrid mode (EFCS + mechanical second shutter), and with its anti-flicker setting turned on, produces any banding under LED lighting.
The only way to answer this definitively is if you have an A7C and access to LED lighting.
We don't know if the second curtain on the A7C is any worse in its precision when traveling over the sensor than any other "normal" shutter in a Sony camera, but the first curtain (which most likely would be the cause for any banding) is the same as in the A7III as it is the same sensor. I use my A7III for low light club events and use it in EFCS mode and there is quite much odd LED lights in those clubs, I have not encountered any problems. I also haven't seen any other reports of banding with EFCS on the A7III so I am not that worried for that use case.
A potentially bigger problem with the EFCS only shutter is bokeh highlights clipping and other bokeh oddness and uneven skies at high shutter speeds as well as HSS banding with flash, those have been recorded and shown on EFCS shots with other Sony bodys.
p.1 #16 · Has anyone yet used the A7C anti-flicker setting under LED lights?
Well, because no one else has jumped in here is a quick crude test. Both the light and camera were hand held and the setup is crude but I am just looking to show any banding issues if present. The first image is the LED light used if that matters. Note that the "Anti-Flicker shoot" option is grayed out when the silent shutter is active so was not used in these tests. The regular light in my workspace is a mix of LED and CFL and I haven't noticed any issues with that either.
p.1 #18 · Has anyone yet used the A7C anti-flicker setting under LED lights?
pfoiles wrote:
Well, because no one else has jumped in here is a quick crude test. Both the light and camera were hand held and the setup is crude but I am just looking to show any banding issues if present. The first image is the LED light used if that matters. Note that the "Anti-Flicker shoot" option is grayed out when the silent shutter is active so was not used in these tests. The regular light in my workspace is a mix of LED and CFL and I haven't noticed any issues with that either.
Thank you, that is very interesting. So, this was shot in Silent Shooting mode, and there is no banding--that is very interesting. It is possible that the particular LED light used did play a part since each LED brand would have slightly different characteristics in terms of its cycling rate and its flickering.
