On announcement I was disappointed in the specs, it feels like a downgrade in some meaningful ways from my A7rII, but I'm becoming more and more interested. Maybe it's just the excitement surrounding people actually getting them.
What I'd really want is an R version with higher MP, so I'd feel silly for jumping in now if that's forthcoming next year or something. Kind of like when I bought into the A7, Sony made so many improvements in the second generation I felt it was worth upgrading after only a little over a year with the camera. But the A7rII has kept me satisfied for 4+ years now.
Matt Grum wrote:
My ideal A7C would have done away with things like IBIS and fancy AF features and concentrated on the basics, solid image quality, good shutter, great viewfinder and a reasonable price.
DES-1 wrote:
Doesn't that describe the NEX-7 fairly closely?
Indeed before the A7 came out the rumors were about a full frame NEX-7. That wasn't quite what we ended up with. Now seven years later we finally have it, almost.
grahamgibson wrote:
On announcement I was disappointed in the specs, it feels like a downgrade in some meaningful ways from my A7rII, but I'm becoming more and more interested.
myself as well. (Can't change my vote to "maybe".) Beginning to wonder if might make a decent backup camera to my rIII. (Backup to an rIV might be really nice!)
It's disappointing that the finder isn't better, but in all honesty, I tend to use the LCD like a waist-view finder a lot. I don't like the camera between me and the subject, even with manual lenses. Though, on this one it makes sense to either get that pancake AF kit lens, or maybe the 35/2.8 or some such....
DES-1 wrote:
Doesn't that describe the NEX-7 fairly closely?
Or the original A7; reviews lauded it for the great sensor and viewfinder. I bought both the A7 and A7R when they came out oh so many years ago...I can confirm the fact that neither came with 'fancy AF features', especially the A7R
I think a lot of those features don't really cost much money once the R&D is done and they've entered production. Any camera that doesn't feature the latest of something doesn't really have mass consumer appeal and once you start stripping out those features to appeal to a very specific audience, you get a pricey niche camera. I think the first 'C' likely had to be what it is.
Let's hope it's the start of a new line of cameras...one that gets a higher end version with commensurate EVF and sensor.
StanOPhoto wrote:
I used to own the RX1R2 and loved the form factor and single lens (like my old Fuji X100 bodies). It was a great everyday and travel camera. I think the A7c and 35/2.8 would be a perfect travel camera. Mostly LCD shooting but some EVF if desired. Damn near the same price as a used RX1R2 but way better autofocus, button layout, and UI.
...I dunno. I picked up a used RX1R2 at Adorama for ~$1500. Better AF, yes, but sadly I think the RX1 has better ergo! I can't believe this body has LESS custom function buttons, as in basically none.
joelRichards wrote:
...I dunno. I picked up a used RX1R2 at Adorama for ~$1500. Better AF, yes, but sadly I think the RX1 has better ergo! I can't believe this body has LESS custom function buttons, as in basically none.
With A7C you can program the video recording button, AF ON button and thrashcan button like any custom buttons. I think my A7C has better ergonomics than my RX1R (1st version though) since it has an inbuilt grip and pretty much equal amount of custom function buttons (considering video recording button as one). I've added a separate grip for RX1R though which makes it nice to hold.
Juha Kannisto wrote:
With A7C you can program the video recording button, AF ON button and thrashcan button like any custom buttons. I think my A7C has better ergonomics than my RX1R (1st version though) since it has an inbuilt grip and pretty much equal amount of custom function buttons (considering video recording button as one). I've added a separate grip for RX1R though which makes it nice to hold.
You make a fair point about the grip, although with the optional thumb grip I find the RX1 excellent to hold. Tangentially, I'm not sure why something like that wasn't worked into the design.
I disagree on the buttons. To get any custom function buttons on the A7C you have to give up a necessary, dedicated function—with the exception of the trash can but that's the same on both cameras and my least fav button placement on any camera.
While I can't defend the buttons the RX1 on their own merits, there is a dedicated custom function button by the shutter AND a video record button so aren't forced to choose. The AF mode dial on the RX1 also potentially eliminated the need for a custom function button, not to mention the dedicated aperture ring.
There is always compromise, but the A7C is too compromised IMO. Again, I look forward to version two with hope.
joelRichards wrote:
You make a fair point about the grip, although with the optional thumb grip I find the RX1 excellent to hold. Tangentially, I'm not sure why something like that wasn't worked into the design.
I disagree on the buttons. To get any custom function buttons on the A7C you have to give up a necessary, dedicated function—with the exception of the trash can but that's the same on both cameras and my least fav button placement on any camera.
While I can't defend the buttons the RX1 on their own merits, there is a dedicated custom function button by the shutter AND a video record button so aren't forced to choose. The AF mode dial on the RX1 also potentially eliminated the need for a custom function button, not to mention the dedicated aperture ring.
There is always compromise, but the A7C is too compromised IMO. Again, I look forward to version two with hope. ...Show more →
I shoot mostly manual focus lenses that have aperture rings and majority of my AF lenses also have aperture rings and AF/MF switches + I don't shoot video at all so the dedicated video recording button is easily reusable in my case. So for me there are easily enough "custom buttons" available on A7C but I understand it will be too few for users who want to keep the core functions of those existing customizable buttons and need more quick controls on the body instead of lens.
goo0h wrote:
Actually, how’s the manual focusing on that thing? Big difference from the rIV?
MF works well. No real difference between the a7riv and the a7c for MF.
The EVF is noticeably smaller, but its fine even for MF. The biggest setback with the EVF isn't really the size of the EVF.....its the depth of the eye-cup....you really need to push the camera up to your eye to seal out ambient light. I'd imagine this might be a problem for people with glasses in bright light. The eye cup looks removable so I'd imagine we'll have the option to swap it out, but I like how the current one protrudes very minimally from the body.
Juha Kannisto wrote:
I shoot mostly manual focus lenses that have aperture rings and majority of my AF lenses also have aperture rings and AF/MF switches + I don't shoot video at all so the dedicated video recording button is easily reusable in my case. So for me there are easily enough "custom buttons" available on A7C but I understand it will be too few for users who want to keep the core functions of those existing customizable buttons and need more quick controls on the body instead of lens.
I mapped pretty much everything I need to a custom button as well....everything else I need is mapped to the Fn menu and can quickly be toggled.
Now that I have this thing in hand, I can really appreciate the thought process that went into the camera. It isn't perfect for sure and it gives some things up, but it does strike a pretty ideal balance of being functional and compact as possible. i.e. a lot of people are wanting a control wheel in the front, but when you actually hold the camera you realize that the grip is basically only slightly larger than the NPZ battery that goes inside of it....its basically a hollow space for the battery. The hump along the top is just tall enough to fit the lens mount...and its only as tall as the control wheels and hotshoe...nothing protrudes. The EVF, while small, is designed to fit the height of the "hump". You basically have a clean horizontal line along the top of the camera. This is ideal for putting the camera into things like jacket pocket, or a tight compartment within a small bag.
EVF - No issues with it at all. It is small. However it's smaller size + same resolution as the 7III leads to higher pixel density, so I actually think it "looks" better compared to the 7III. Going from memory here though as I no longer have a III, but remember being very underwhelmed with the VF on it. The small size makes it less immersive, it's like the opposite of the Sigma fp + LVF-11 in that regards. It's more than adequate though, and focusing the Voigtlander 40mm 1.2 at 1.2 is no issue at all.
LCD - Adequate. I still wish it were higher res, but really it's fine. I prefer the flippy screen so that's a win for me. I really like to be able to fold it away when using the EVF (esp. at night) w/o having to shut the screen off in the menus.
Smaller lenses definitely feel like a better match for it. The 40mm 1.2 is starting to feel a bit nose heavy to me. Still very manageable, but <400g is probably ideal for balance. In comparison, the Sigma 45C feels completely neutral. The weather has been crap, so haven't really put it through the paces yet. So far, so good though.
I played with an a7c today. For me it is not small enough to add to my kit. By the time you put a lens on it you must still put in on a strap, or on you belt. Not near small enough for a pocket.
Also lacking the new menu and other ergonomics compromises that make it not compelling for me.
I did get to play with the new menu in the a7sIII. If that is the future of Sony menus, it is a very good thing. I like and am comfortable with the existing menu design. But the new one is significantly better.
Yes it looks good The flip side is that inside A7c has recycled technology that is actually overdue to be replaced by the next generation. Somewhere in Japan A7m4 is waiting to be launched, and when that happens A7c is officially as "old" camera as A7m3.
How I wish that A7c would have been something special! Maybe recycling A9 classic tech to it? Or A7r3 tech. Now its faith is to become the A6300 of Sony full frame. Kind of lame in terms of camera hype
The flip side is that inside A7c has recycled technology that is actually overdue to be replaced by the next generation. Somewhere in Japan A7m4 is waiting to be launched, and when that happens A7c is officially as "old" camera as A7m3. 