p.6 #1 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
nhsonyshooter wrote:
Yes and no. I think people are thinking about this possibly the wrong way. This would not be a "new mount" system that would threaten Emount. People should think about it as a fix lens camera that you basically get to pick the focal length that works for you. Meaning I could totally see Sony offering a FF A6600 style body (with removable lens) with say a 5 lens selection. Just say 20, 24,28, 35 and 50. New designs that only work on this new curved sensor camera. It would be no different than a Rx1riii except you get to pick the lens that you want. Sony gets to make the same body with out having to make 5 different fixed lens cameras. I think in that context it would be a win win. It doesn't compete with anything Sony sells because it is an add on camera. It also can attract users outside the Sony system. I don't see it replacing APSC because of price point and longer lenses than the limited line this would have. All speculation of course at this point...Show more →
While I'd love the possibility of Sony releasing even smaller primes that match the 20G/Nikon's S-line in terms of optics... I don't think they'd start a new mount until they were ready to commit. Fixed lens compact seems more likely to me, and would give them a lot of design freedom while they think about the market they'd be releasing it to.
Gimmie a 40/2 the size of the rx1 series with OIS please, Sony
p.6 #2 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
JVan_02 wrote:
While I'd love the possibility of Sony releasing even smaller primes that match the 20G/Nikon's S-line in terms of optics... I don't think they'd start a new mount until they were ready to commit. Fixed lens compact seems more likely to me, and would give them a lot of design freedom while they think about the market they'd be releasing it to.
Gimmie a 40/2 the size of the rx1 series with OIS please, Sony
I personally would be fine with that. But based on the rumor a fix lens is not an option and would appeal to less people.
p.6 #3 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
For the current camera? Sure. Long term though? How many people want the rx1r iii to come out?
Right now, no one has a fixed lens compact without at least one of these problems
No stabilization, leading to camera/hand shake compromising photos at slower shutter speeds (Fuji, Sony)
Contrast only AF, leading to poor AF performance in low light/low contrast situations & relatively poor tracking (Leica)
Unit based AF, leading to slower than average AF speeds (Fuji, Sony)
No sealing (Fuji without protective filter, Sony)
Didn't include the gr iii, as I feel due to both its size and the f4 equiv I feel its in another (ultracompact?) category. Also tried to keep criticisms to just handling & performance based, as all of these cameras are capable of producing high quality output. Despite Fuji appearing in more categories than Leica, I feel its a bit closer to the compact camera ideal as its downsides outside of lack of stabilization are minor and the q2 is almost the size of a 7iii w/ 28mm.
Regardless, if a curved sensor was combined with a compact that eliminated all those handling errors it would absolutely dominate the market. Similarly to the 50 1.2 RF, it would be able to command a high price because nothing else would be able to offer what it could.
p.6 #4 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
JVan_02 wrote:
For the current camera? Sure. Long term though? How many people want the rx1r iii to come out?
Right now, no one has a fixed lens compact without at least one of these problems
No stabilization, leading to camera/hand shake compromising photos at slower shutter speeds (Fuji, Sony)
Contrast only AF, leading to poor AF performance in low light/low contrast situations & relatively poor tracking (Leica)
Unit based AF, leading to slower than average AF speeds (Fuji, Sony)
No sealing (Fuji without protective filter, Sony)
Didn't include the gr iii, as I feel due to both its size and the f4 equiv I feel its in another (ultracompact?) category. Also tried to keep criticisms to just handling & performance based, as all of these cameras are capable of producing high quality output. Despite Fuji appearing in more categories than Leica, I feel its a bit closer to the compact camera ideal as its downsides outside of lack of stabilization are minor and the q2 is almost the size of a 7iii w/ 28mm.
Regardless, if a curved sensor was combined with a compact that eliminated all those handling errors it would absolutely dominate the market. Similarly to the 50 1.2 RF, it would be able to command a high price because nothing else would be able to offer what it could. ...Show more →
"Right now, no one has a fixed lens compact without at least one of these problems"
Which is why don't think we are going to see an Rx1riii. I've been waiting 5 years but I don't think one will be coming. It's just to small a niche. Especially if this new A7C is good and they offer good smaller lenses. That will kill any chance of a new riii.
p.6 #5 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I think this is a smart move from Sony, as they are leveraging the BENEFIT of their smaller mount. Its something CaNikon et al can't match with their big full frame mounts, and a way Sony can re-invigorate their 'blue-water strategy', now that other manufacture's have largely caught up with their A7/A9 sized bodies.
I think those hoping for a curved sensor will be disappointed.
p.6 #6 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
DavidBM wrote:
That's all true, but for those of us that use MF most of the time, occupying a big area of the field of vision is not optional! It's not about habits (except for the habit of using MF lensed and vintage glass, but millennials are as keen on vintage glass as us.
For AF it might well not be essential, except insofar as using the screen loses about a stop of stability...
Yes, I agree that for MF an excellent EVF is a huge help and a screen is not optimal. Maybe usable with magnification, but not optimal. And I personally would be very concerned about losing a stop of stability if that were to be the case over time and despite the elaboration of technique.
Have you ever come across Marshall McLuhan's idea of rear-view mirror vision about how we relate to a new technology--he says by seeing it as a version of or in comparison to an older technology and trying at first to use it that way? Thus, the "iron horse," "horseless carriage,", "wireless" for the locomotive, automobile, and radio. His idea was that we try to make the new technology do what the old technology did, but slightly differently (like the incunabula period in early printing when printed manuscripts tried to look like written ones). The term "mirrorless" is another example of this.
McLuhan thought that a new technology brings capacities that are at first unrecognized but that unfold over time and that form new habits, uses, and modes of thought. Eventually as the new capacities of the new technology are more fully utilized, the effort to use the new technology in the way we used the older one falls away. We are probably still in the very early stages of developing the differences between "mirrorless" cameras and SLRs and between digital and film.
Anyway, I wonder if the LCD screen is a an example of this and that the millennials with their phone-graded habits will leave us older folks peering through our EVFs as they've left behind punctuation on phone messaging. And that the LCD screen over time will be discovered and be developed to offer many advantages for focusing and composition that are not fully known or foreseeable now.
p.6 #7 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Petegh wrote:
I think this is a smart move from Sony, as they are leveraging the BENEFIT of their smaller mount. Its something CaNikon et al can't match with their big full frame mounts, and a way Sony can re-invigorate their 'blue-water strategy', now that other manufacture's have largely caught up with their A7/A9 sized bodies.
I think those hoping for a curved sensor will be disappointed.
I think most of us here that would like a curved sensor understand it is not going to happen. That said to your point if Sony "really" wanted to take advantage of the smaller mount and make optically excellent smaller lenses a curved sensor clearly would give them an advantage and separate them from anyone else. Like I said before though. I'll be happy even with a regular old run of the mill boring FF sensor is in an A6600 body. For now
p.6 #9 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
nhsonyshooter wrote:
"Right now, no one has a fixed lens compact without at least one of these problems"
Which is why don't think we are going to see an Rx1riii. I've been waiting 5 years but I don't think one will be coming. It's just to small a niche. Especially if this new A7C is good and they offer good smaller lenses. That will kill any chance of a new riii.
If you're right and a) no one comes out with a fixed lens compact and b) Sony never releases a 35/40 f1.8ish G line prime I'm gonna be even more salty that Sony, the leading manufacturer of aspheric lens elements, and Sony, professed lover of high quality smaller primes didn't at least put their 35 1.8 FE on the level of the 55 ZA optically. It's the perfect form factor, with an excellent mfd, state of the art AF, sealing, and almost 0 breathing as the cherry on top. It's gonna be an absolute perfect match for the upcoming camera, in other words.
My only hope for a fixed lens compact is that it would be the perfect opportunity to exploit new curved sensor tech. Of course, while I see this as an opportunity, that opportunity lessens when Sony imaging was divested to improve profits of the main Sony stock.
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I guess I just wish I lived in an alternate timeline, camera gear wise
p.6 #10 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I suppose I should also say that if the 40 CF weren't so crazily inflated to match the Batis aesthetic it also would be an excellent companion to the possible a7c
p.6 #11 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
JVan_02 wrote:
I suppose I should also say that if the 40 CF weren't so crazily inflated to match the Batis aesthetic it also would be an excellent companion to the possible a7c
Yes, the Loxia should fit nicely but the Batis are likely a bit large. Although, the Batis are light, so we'll have to see whether they would work on it.
p.6 #12 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
JVan_02 wrote:
If you're right and a) no one comes out with a fixed lens compact and b) Sony never releases a 35/40 f1.8ish G line prime I'm gonna be even more salty that Sony, the leading manufacturer of aspheric lens elements, and Sony, professed lover of high quality smaller primes didn't at least put their 35 1.8 FE on the level of the 55 ZA optically. It's the perfect form factor, with an excellent mfd, state of the art AF, sealing, and almost 0 breathing as the cherry on top. It's gonna be an absolute perfect match for the upcoming camera, in other words.
My only hope for a fixed lens compact is that it would be the perfect opportunity to exploit new curved sensor tech. Of course, while I see this as an opportunity, that opportunity lessens when Sony imaging was divested to improve profits of the main Sony stock.
...
...
I guess I just wish I lived in an alternate timeline, camera gear wise ...Show more →
I would be happy to be wrong. Like I said I've been waiting 5 years for the Rx1riii. I like you want that small 35GM as well. I have 2 slivers of hope. One is the curved sensor stuff w/lens (they already have patents) second was those ALON lens that were rumored. As of now it looks like my hopes are going to be 0 for 2. But at least this A7c will be smaller. I might buy back the 35mm Zeiss depending on what these new lenses are about.
p.6 #14 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Sounds like it could be a challenger to my RX1RII - which would be great as long as these supposed compact primes are high quality optics - at least as good as the 35/2 on the RX1RII.
p.6 #15 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
jhinkey wrote:
Sounds like it could be a challenger to my RX1RII - which would be great as long as these supposed compact primes are high quality optics - at least as good as the 35/2 on the RX1RII.
Good luck
I’d love such a thing too, but have taken apart an RX1–that Sonnar is larger than people think, and it’s literally affixed to the sensor.
I would be shocked if we get a lens that is technically as good, renders brilliantly and is as fast.
p.6 #16 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Good luck
I’d love such a thing too, but have taken apart an RX1–that Sonnar is larger than people think, and it’s literally affixed to the sensor.
I would be shocked if we get a lens that is technically as good, renders brilliantly and is as fast.
Yep - highly unlikely - seems like they will likely go for the compact design and let other things float (like wide open sharpness). If this body is meant for Vlogging, then "ugh" as the lenses don't need to be very good optically for this.
p.6 #17 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
jhinkey wrote:
Yep - highly unlikely - seems like they will likely go for the compact design and let other things float (like wide open sharpness). If this body is meant for Vlogging, then "ugh" as the lenses don't need to be very good optically for this.
I think it will be the opposite if we get a compact 35mm. I bet we get great sharpness, but rough bokeh and transitions.
That's the marketing for most people--like the FE 85, FE 35, FE 20. People will argue and get all excited they they are like premiums lenses, but just a little slower, while camera makers will continue to put better tonal differentiation and more pleasant color and better renderings on premium glass.
p.6 #19 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I am looking at this in a different way. Have had the A7iii for 2 years and just upgraded 2 weeks ago to A7Riii for a larger MP and better EVF. What if Sony is bringing out this new line out to replace the current A7iii with the same 24MP sensor, more compact design and compact lenses and the flippy screen. That is all great and many here seem to like it even though it is priced at $2,000.
But it could mean the A7IV is destined be more than it is now. Say a 36MP sensor or so to start, with 90% of screen coverage with AF points (the biggest drawback of the A7Riii in my 2 week ownership with only 68% AF coverage). Better EVF and LCD with same tilting design, twin UHS-II slots, and the new style A7RIV controls and dials. But it is priced at $2,600.
This would give us the new A7C line for compact travel and bloggers who want flippy screen, Sony A7IV with tilt screen and higher MP for normal use and the 60MP A7RIV for ultimate, and all with the same battery. Seems like a great A7 lineup to go forward with to me.
p.6 #20 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
SpecFoto wrote:
I am looking at this in a different way. Have had the A7iii for 2 years and just upgraded 2 weeks days ago to A7riii for a larger MP and better EVF. What if Sony is bringing out this new line out to replace the current A7iii with the same 24MP sensor, more compact design and compact lenses and the flippy screen. That is all great and many here seem to like it even though it is priced at $2,000.
But it could mean the A7IV is destined be more than it is now. Say a 36MP sensor or so to start, with 90% of screen coverage with AF points (the biggest drawback of the A7Riii so far in my 2 week ownership). Better EVF and LCD with same tilting design, twin UHS-II slots, and the new style A7RIV controls and dial. But it is priced at $2,600.
So this would give up the new A7C line for compact travel and bloggers who want flippy screen, Sony A7IV with tilt screen and higher MP for normal and the 60MP A7RIV for ultimate and all with the same battery. Seems like a great A7 lineup to me. ...Show more →
Yes, could be quite a line-up. The only thing that is worrying--and making me think we could be getting ahead of ourselves--is that the camera is said to be marketed for vloggers and youtubers. That would make sense of the new line of VX lenses--"V" for video. If so, the camera would not be optimized for still photography.
If that is the case, I suppose there is a possibility that the A74 to come might show some reduction in size.
