p.42 #2 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Charlie N wrote:
would you use people as subjects for an IBIS test? it's absolutely absurd.
Tony is an expert youtuber, there's no doubt about that. He's shown time and time again, that he's not a very experienced photographer.
Your comment can be absurd .. to be fair about the context. I shoot 1/2 second exposures without IBIS with subjects 40 feet away and can see stitch detail in their clothing. Of course I'd use subjects for an IBIS test. I'd do it with and without. That's why I think it's absurd to dismiss one of two options.
Now this photo for example was taken plenty faster than 1/2 sec., but there's no IS and no IBIS used. If a subject can be photographed like this without either one of those features, of course I'd test IBIS on a human subject to see how much it may help or not.
p.42 #3 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Charlie N wrote:
appreciate the surprise of the Siii, have one on order. the idea of this A7c as a secondary camera is DOA as far as I'm concerned. You can still redo the menus to look the same as the Siii but not have the quick and smooth reaction. It just goes to show that Sony has been using trash processors for the longest time.... and still using it in 2020.......
Sony got one thing right with the A7c..... the size, not a fan of how heavy these cameras are. Assuming the A7iv is any good, I'll simply wait till the A7c mark ii comes out. I'm ready to sacrifice some features, but I have my limits....Show more →
Amen! I just hope there's enough interest that this doesn't become a one-and-done product for Sony. I am proportionately as excited for version 2 as I am disappointed in version 1. My only lingering concern is I hate side-flip screens and I'm worried that's now going to be a permanent part of Sony's cameras–at least his model.
p.42 #4 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
mdvaden wrote:
Your comment can be absurd .. to be fair about the context.
I shoot 1/2 second exposures without IBIS with subjects 40 feet away and can see stitch detail in their clothing. Of course I'd use subjects for an IBIS test. I'd do it with and without.
That's why I think it's absurd to dismiss one of two options.
When testing anything, you want to remove as many variables out of the test. Shooting something that can move ( like a human ) to test the accuracy of IBIS just complicates things. When you get back to your computer and look at the images and find some not as sharp...was this caused by IBIS or did the subject move slightly? You have no idea...so your test is total garbage.
Same reason people test lenses using tripods...to remove the possibility of camera movement.
p.42 #5 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
chez wrote:
When testing anything, you want to remove as many variables out of the test. Shooting something that can move ( like a human ) to test the accuracy of IBIS just complicates things. When you get back to your computer and look at the images and find some not as sharp...was this caused by IBIS or did the subject move slightly? You have no idea...so your test is total garbage.
Same reason people test lenses using tripods...to remove the possibility of camera movement.
The two photos I posted earlier in an edit, have humans and trees. Even if the humans move or shrubs sway, the trunks remain stable, as do extreme fine details like spider webs and lichens on the trunks. There's not need to remove a human for a test in many of the shots I take.
That's why I replied that the other person's comment "absurd" was in itself absurd. It's a fair retort in context.
No IBIS or IS used on this one either. But had I tested an IBIS system here, I could simply zoom in 100% on the trunk, lichen and spider webs that barely show up here. I've got files of this same tree up to 20,000 x 20,000 pixels.
p.42 #6 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
chez wrote:
Again, it depends on what one is shooting. Shooting events typically IS does nothing for you. Shooting still subjects like landscapes or architecture, I'd use a tripod over any IS to get better results.
Shooting events professionally I can only second that. Steady hands give you nothing as usually motion blur is to be avoided and creeps in easily. You can't afford risking key moments by playing with SS.
With the A7riv one needs to increase SS quite a lot to avoid that, esp. when shooting with A9ii normally, to get pixel sharp images.
For landscapes I prefer tripod, careful composition and multiple exposures. I don't see any value in doing half baked shots which aren't potential keepers later. Waste of time.
p.42 #7 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
LBJ2 wrote:
Will those of you FF Sony photographers that typically take along a Sony APSC as your back up camera, now consider to replace the APSC with the FF A7c?
p.42 #8 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Holger wrote:
Shooting events professionally I can only second that. Steady hands give you nothing as usually motion blur is to be avoided and creeps in easily. You can't afford risking key moments by playing with SS.
With the A7riv one needs to increase SS quite a lot to avoid that, esp. when shooting with A9ii normally, to get pixel sharp images.
For landscapes I prefer tripod, careful composition and multiple exposures. I don't see any value in doing half baked shots which aren't potential keepers later. Waste of time.
Exactly my feelings. The only place IBIS helps out is shooting static subjects like in churches where tripods are not allowed...and even then with today's high ISO abilities...I'd still try to get a good shutter speed.
p.42 #9 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
mdvaden wrote:
The two photos I posted earlier in an edit, have humans and trees. Even if the humans move or shrubs sway, the trunks remain stable, as do extreme fine details like spider webs and lichens on the trunks. There's not need to remove a human for a test in many of the shots I take.
That's why I replied that the other person's comment "absurd" was in itself absurd. It's a fair retort in context.
No IBIS or IS used on this one either. But had I tested an IBIS system here, I could simply zoom in 100% on the trunk, lichen and spider webs that barely show up here. I've got files of this same tree up to 20,000 x 20,000 pixels.
But lets look at the context where this IBIS discussion arose. It was Tony N. testing the IBIS on a human and zooming into the eye to measure it's effectiveness. No lichens or spider webs were used...just the human eyes...which IS an absurd way of testing IS.
p.42 #10 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
But lets look at the context where this IBIS discussion arose. It was Tony N. testing the IBIS on a human and zooming into the eye to measure it's effectiveness. No lichens or spider webs were used...just the human eyes...which IS an absurd way of testing IS.
I've tested IBIS that way with a Sony A7R iii with human and stable subjects.
Any context, I'd still try IBIS with humans, and still find your "absurd" criticism about Northrup's photos to be lacking.
You'll just be running around in circles all day, while it remains easy to test IBIS with and without humans.
p.42 #11 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Holger wrote:
Shooting events professionally I can only second that. Steady hands give you nothing as usually motion blur is to be avoided and creeps in easily. You can't afford risking key moments by playing with SS.
With the A7riv one needs to increase SS quite a lot to avoid that, esp. when shooting with A9ii normally, to get pixel sharp images.
For landscapes I prefer tripod, careful composition and multiple exposures. I don't see any value in doing half baked shots which aren't potential keepers later. Waste of time.
I understand that people always say IS does nothing for moving subjects and so doesn't work with people who are not posing. I think this is only partially true.
First, when shooting people in candid settings, there is almost always a moment of of pause, even with an active and energetic child. IS is useful if one uses those moments of pause and can markedly increase the number of keepers and of very sharp images.
The second point I am uncertain and speculating about: I would assume that sources of movement blur are additive, so if your subject moves a little and your hand moves a little, the two movements are additive and produce a greater degree of complex blur. In those situations, it may be that IS can eliminate one of the sources of blur and may result in a higher proportion of useable images--especially if one is shooting for a moment of pause.
p.42 #12 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I've tested IBIS that way with a Sony A7R iii with human and stable subjects.
Any context, I'd still try IBIS with humans, and still find your "absurd" criticism about Northrup's photos to be lacking.
You'll just be running around in circles all day, while it remains easy to test IBIS with and without humans.
Really...running around circles by testing IS on stable subjects? I think you have it backwards here. Testing IS on non stable subjects just leads to running in circles.
p.42 #13 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
If you test IBIS with a subject that might be moving, even very slightly, all bets are off. You've made testing hand shake, itself almost impossible to pin down from day to day or even camera to camera and added another unknown wildcard factor.
However much anyone may use IBIS with human or other non static subjects, why wouldn't you, you can't use them for testing and make pronouncements about a system based on the results. It's simply too wildly unscientific to be relevant.
p.42 #14 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
chiron wrote:
I understand that people always say IS does nothing for moving subjects and so doesn't work with people who are not posing. I think this is only partially true.
First, when shooting people in candid settings, there is almost always a moment of of pause, even with an active and energetic child. IS is useful if one uses those moments of pause and can markedly increase the number of keepers and of very sharp images.
The second point I am uncertain and speculating about: I would assume that sources of movement blur are additive, so if your subject moves a little and your hand moves a little, the two movements are additive and produce a greater degree of complex blur. In those situations, it may be that IS can eliminate one of the sources of blur and may result in a higher proportion of useable images--especially if one is shooting for a moment of pause. ...Show more →
Increasing the shutter eliminates both those cases...you don't have to wait for that pause with a faster shutter and a faster shutter will eliminate blur caused by camera movement. Of course it depends on how dim of an environment you are shooting in...but I typically will increase my ISO or use a fast lens when in dim environments to keep the shutter speed up.
p.42 #15 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
chez wrote:
Increasing the shutter eliminates both those cases...you don't have to wait for that pause with a faster shutter and a faster shutter will eliminate blur caused by camera movement. Of course it depends on how dim of an environment you are shooting in...but I typically will increase my ISO or use a fast lens when in dim environments to keep the shutter speed up.
Yes, of course. But obviously we are talking about situations where shutter speed is constrained. The whole discussion of IS is pointless if you can just increase shutter speed to levels that eliminate the problem. IS is for when you can't, which is often.
p.42 #16 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
It's very interesting when juxtapose it next to an A7iii, it's not that much smaller. The EVF on the A7iii is the most significant difference with height. I'm debating whether I want to sell the RX1Rii. The 42mp, 35 Sonnar and leaf shutters are pretty nice to have. There is still no small prime lens from 28mm-40mm with the smooth transition zone like the 35 Sonnar. It makes no sense to mount the 35/1.4 or Sigma ART on the A7c.
p.42 #17 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
chiron wrote:
Yes, of course. But obviously we are talking about situations where shutter speed is constrained. The whole discussion of IS is pointless if you can just increase shutter speed to levels that eliminate the problem. IS is for when you can't, which is often.
For most of the subjects I shoot, either I need the faster shutter speed to stop subject motion, or I'm shooting off a tripod at base ISO. I agree IBIS is helpful in certain situations...but for me that is not often.
p.42 #18 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I would trade the IBIS for a better EVF. But as a 100% stills guy and never a vlogger, I don't think this camera is marketed toward me. I like the smaller size but there are a few too many misses to make me order one at this price.
p.42 #19 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Jman13 wrote:
Agreed...the EVF on the a6400 is fine. Which is why I'm baffled they didn't use it for this camera. This is a massive downgrade in size compared to the a6400.
It does look like they sacrificed it to save about 2mm of height, but honestly, I'd rather they slightly reduce the rear screen size by 2mm and put in the better EVF.
Looking at the picture of A7c, I don't think they can put A6400 size EVF in this body without either increasing its height or making the LCD smaller (like A6xxx). Personally I completely dislike the small A6xxx LCD and would rather take a smaller EVF than that LCD.
p.42 #20 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Hate to say it, but the video AF in Tony and Chelsea’s video is dog food grade.
mdvaden wrote:
Tony sure let the horses out of the barn when he recommended the Canon EOS R, regardless what he said following. But if this review is within reason, it seems a good used A7R iii would be a far better purchase since the size isn't much different, although there's a finger space difference worth noting.
Also, if IBIS of the A7C shouldn't be relied upon in low light, what lenses with image stabilization are available for a budget priced body that will maintain comfortable finger room?
