p.26 #1 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
freaklikeme wrote:
They could. It would make more sense if it were an M-mount camera rebranded by one of the third party M-mount manufacturers like Cosina or Zeiss (Digital IKON or Bessa), but they certainly could.
But why? Sony wants to sell you a bunch of lenses as well...not just a camera that works with M-mount lenses. Does not make any business sense.
p.26 #3 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Your do not know how a sensor is set up in a Sony camera but that never prevents you from opining. You are wrong. It is essentially one stack with no chance of dust getting in between any of the glass. All well sealed.
Steve Spencer wrote:
Yes, but there are two pieces of glass one a bit removed from the sensor that also has the IR cut filter and one glued onto the sensor that is just plain regular glass. As I understand it the IBIS primarily removes dust from the first piece of glass and is does little to the second piece of glass attached to the sensor.
Leica M digital cameras have a different set up. There is only one piece of glass which works as an IR cut filter that is glued directly on the sensor.
It is a huge long shot that Sony would try to do it the Leica way, but it is unclear to me anyway that IBIS could effectively remove the dust if the only sensor cover glass was glued directly on the sensor (i.e., they did sensor cover glass the Leica way)....Show more →
p.26 #4 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
nehemiahphoto wrote:
I agree, which is why I said I don’t think they will, but it does seem they very easily and practically could.
I see the new Sony A7C as a direct competitor to the Sigma FP camera in terms of offering a very compact full frame camera with a 24MP sensor for stills. The initial rumors got me worried but as it is, the built-in viewfinder is a huge plus for the Sony compared to Sigma. We don't know video specs yet but the FP does 4K 30.
p.26 #6 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
(First, SAR have more images.)
Black looks more attractive. Design sure looks better on the back panel, they should have gone with that image pre-release. Weight is very good (a7r good but with IBIS and large battery), gained mostly from losing the large and very effective a7 prism and putting the EVF off to the left edge. This is the major layout change and will evoke a range of responses. As an MF camera there are enough buttons.
Many mourned the change to the DSLR layout back in NEX days, but Sony did it for good reason. See how small and naked the EVF surround is in the a7c compared with the a7 series? It's tiny (seemingly so is the EVF screen). That outsized and forgiving a7 rubber eye protection is pure luxury in a small camera, as it gives fabulous sun/light protection and a very effective brow rest for fine tuning eye positioning - very important for manual focus and image review, etc. It makes the cameras much more EVF-friendly for many operations.
Some work well with the VF hanging out to the left and it's not too hard for left-eye shooters, but best is having lens-VF in the centre for balance and expediency, the hand expects to find the lens 'in the right place' - along the camera's 'visual axis' (near centre of LCD-EVF-lens). Very important with heavier (even midweight, say 600g) lenses. Holding the camera an inch or so lower is another good ergo they have lost here.
So, major controls for many (esp the spin dial) are now noticeably to the right side, whereas before they were below and a little to the right. The grip looked a little reshaped for 'style' and with CF looking material, not the very effective a7 grips.
Tentative conclusion: it's intended mainly for 'light' EVF use combined with the (folding) screen, a vlogging camera in other words. What price level will the (150 g heavier) a7III settle at in 3 months? For EVF-centric shooters, that one is by no means a non-option.
p.26 #7 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Fred Miranda wrote:
I see the new Sony A7C as a direct competitor to the Sigma FP camera in terms of offering a very compact full frame camera with a 24MP sensor for stills. The initial rumors got me worries but as it is, the built-in viewfinder is a huge plus for the Sony compared to Sigma. We don't know video specs yet but the FP does 4K 30.
I would have purchased the FP except the lack of an internal EVF. From what I can tell, the FP seems to be more of a video-centric camera from the specs and electronic only shutter and such.
I view this as more of a competitor to the new Nikon Z5 as very similarly spec'ed (as far as we know), and more still centric than the FP. But perhaps it's both--Sony's take on a relatively small entry level FF MILC. Panny just released there's too. But I didn't like their iteration as much.
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.26 #8 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
realVivek wrote:
Your do not know how a sensor is set up in a Sony camera but that never prevents you from opining. You are wrong. It is essentially one stack with no chance of dust getting in between any of the glass. All well sealed.
You don't listen to what I say obviously. I said there are two pieces of glass and not one. I did not say there was a chance of dust getting in-between. It is you who are wrong. Here is a schematic of the set up:
Listen to what I am saying and try to understand before you comment. It really does help and maybe ask for clarification of what I am saying and even verification if you like. That doesn't seem to be you style, however. Instead you just want to tell people that they are ignorant and don't know anything without providing any information yourself.
p.26 #10 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
chez wrote:
But why? Sony wants to sell you a bunch of lenses as well...not just a camera that works with M-mount lenses. Does not make any business sense.
Because then Sony can still get paid for the camera and and lovers of Cosina or Zeiss M-mount lenses get a camera Leica refuses to make. Rebranding deals can be profitable, Hasselblad aside. It makes much more fiscal sense than thinning the stack of an E-mount camera and trying to sell it into the base.
p.26 #12 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
freaklikeme wrote:
Because then Sony can still get paid for the camera and and lovers of Cosina or Zeiss M-mount lenses get a camera Leica refuses to make. Rebranding deals can be profitable, Hasselblad aside. It makes much more fiscal sense than thinning the stack of an E-mount camera and trying to sell it into the base.
So how many of these M-mount cameras do you think Sony would sell compared to their about to be released e-mount camera? I would think the e-mount camera will sell at least a magnitude more...most likely many magnitudes more. Then add in the lenses and your looking at a no brainer.
Remember, Sony is here to make money...not to sell cameras to a niche market.
Sep 11, 2020 at 06:47 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.26 #13 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
realVivek wrote:
Just as I said, you are wrong and you are showing your lack of understanding by posting an irrelevant schematic.
Here is a hint: there is no piezo electric element attached to any of the glass in the stack in a Sony cam that has IBIS.
I have/use A7rII cams with no cover glass (“naked sensor”), with 1mm cover glass only and stock cameras. In all, the IBIS is the dust shaker.
Also, I have many sensors (mostly Sony) and their components, on my way to deBayer them. The latest of it is actually a Nikon D850 sensor.
I am no longer interested in these off topic discussions. ...Show more →
Is my schematic really irrelevant? If it is could you present a more relevant schematic? Is there really only one piece of glass even in your schematic? You don't ever answer questions like that instead you just say how other people are wrong. Why not offer real information or present a schematic so that other people can understand? If I am wrong, then don't just say it. Show us the set up so we can all understand how I am wrong. Yeah, you have different cameras with different thickness to the cover glass, but what does that have to do with the question at hand?
You raised the issue of the dust shaker being IBIS. I never said that wan't true. Why do you keep bringing that up?
Yeah, you have many sensors on the way to deBayering them. Again what does that have to do with the question at hand, and that question to refresh your memory is whether on the stock Sony cameras there is just one piece of glass or multiple pieces of glass and how that differs from the Leica M cameras.
PS: the schematic that I post is from the original A7, so of course it does not have IBIS as the dust shaker since it doesn't have IBIS, but other than that detail how is the sensor schematic wrong and why would an A7 sensor schematic be irrelevant? Are you saying that Sony changed the basic design (other than shaking the sensor with IBIS) of the sensor stack between the A7 and the A7 III?
p.26 #15 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Timothy OConn wrote:
I wouldnt pay more than a grand for an A7III in a much crappier body, and no custom buttons. That is just me...
That's interesting that you would even pay 1000 for a "crappy body"
Sep 11, 2020 at 07:16 PM
imagesfromobjects Offline • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.26 #16 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Ahh, but the fp does video RAW to an external USB-C SSD. I haven't heard that mentioned in any of the a7C rumors. Raw video is just... insane, really. After using it, it would be very difficult for me to go back to anything else. Probably the same way people feel after using an a7Rxx camera re: downgrading to 24mp. Or being asked to go back to only shooting JPEGS.
Other than that, I'll admit I'm tempted. EVF and a flip screen are woefully missing on the fp, and I definitely feel their absence.
Assuming my fp ever makes it back from Kolari (going on a month now) I'm sure I'll keep it at least until used a7C's start showing up on the B&S board.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I see the new Sony A7C as a direct competitor to the Sigma FP camera in terms of offering a very compact full frame camera with a 24MP sensor for stills. The initial rumors got me worries but as it is, the built-in viewfinder is a huge plus for the Sony compared to Sigma. We don't know video specs yet but the FP does 4K 30.
The schematic posted is most likely that of a Nikon or a Canon sensor.
Even the Sony A7’s dust shaker is glued to the next glass stack which is glued to the sensor with its cover glass. There are no plastic holders or silicone gaskets. There is little chance of dust getting in between the glass. I think almost everyone with basic comprehension skills in English will understand what I have written.
Sep 11, 2020 at 07:26 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.26 #18 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
realVivek wrote:
FWIW: there is a good reason why some impossible posters are on my ignore list.
Here is one of my snaps of a Sony A7 sensor from 6 years ago.
The schematic posted is most likely that of a Nikon or a Canon sensor.
Even the Sony A7’s dust shaker is glued to the next glass stack which is glued to the sensor with its cover glass. There are no plastic holders or silicone gaskets. There is little chance of dust getting in between the glass. I think almost everyone with basic comprehension skills in English will understand what I have written....Show more →
Thank you for verifying that the A7 sensor stack does have two pieces of glass. I also appreciate you making it clear that there is little chance of dust getting in between the glass, but I want to clarify that I never said dust could get between the two pieces of glass nor ever thought that, but I suppose it is good to be clear about that point. I am glad we can agree that doesn't happen.
Good to know the schematic I posted may be from a different manufacturer. The site I posted from:
shared the schematic when discussing Sony cameras as an example of the set up for Sony cameras.
I take your word that the Sony doesn't have the plastic holders or silicone gaskets, but it is good to know it does have the different pieces of glass. Thanks for actually engaging and clarifying what you have found the stack to look like.
p.26 #19 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
chez wrote:
So how many of these M-mount cameras do you think Sony would sell compared to their about to be released e-mount camera? I would think the e-mount camera will sell at least a magnitude more...most likely many magnitudes more. Then add in the lenses and your looking at a no brainer.
Remember, Sony is here to make money...not to sell cameras to a niche market.
I wasn't making a case for a Digital IKON or Bessa. I was making the point that thinning the sensor glass on a e-mount camera made no sense, but it would make more sense on a rebranded camera for one of those M-lens producing companies. If you're going to join a conversation, try to follow it from the beginning.
p.26 #20 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
For whatever various reasons, Sony doesn't seem to like to make APS-C sensor lenses. The A7C line could very well replace the entire a6000 series. When you compare it to that, the feature set seen in the leaks makes sense.
The new compact V lens series will be Sony's answer to lenses they should have made for APS-C. It allows them to serve both crop and FF body owners.
