p.14 #2 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
knshshnk wrote:
last details about the camera are a relief for me, at least it isn't exactly the a6600 chassis, and pricing is not bad, 2300 euros is the body only a7III at launch
in the end it'll be a middle ground, not a high end compact like many wanted, nor the super basic and cheap entry level body as rumored first
It actually sounds like this may the first camera in a series. It may be that Sony will give a hint of future compact camera bodies when they announce the A7C.
p.14 #3 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
So without vat the kit combo and you're looking at around £1700 / €1900 / $2250 usd / $3000 cdn... For a rumored 4k 30p single card slot low res evf camera.
p.14 #4 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
SAR was wildly off with the A7siii
St_SwG wrote:
So without vat the kit combo and you're looking at around £1700 / €1900 / $2250 usd / $3000 cdn... For a rumored 4k 30p single card slot low res evf camera.
p.14 #5 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
“Most beautiful E-mount camera yet”
That's interesting.
I started to vocalize my desire for a FF NEX-7 within the first year of owning my NEX-7, which is what I still consider the best looking E Mount camera.
I uploaded this Dec. 2016. Nice to hear Sony is finally catching up to my vision. Sony NEX-7 A7rII Hybrid FF by James, on Flickr
p.14 #6 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
St_SwG wrote:
So without vat the kit combo and you're looking at around £1700 / €1900 / $2250 usd / $3000 cdn... For a rumored 4k 30p single card slot low res evf camera.
Still doesn't look very promising
Think ‘most compact ff ILC with a viewfinder’ and the marketing makes more sense, this is aimed at the blogger and street shooting communities who don’t need 4k60 or dual slots, but want a body that doesn’t pay the size penalty that most ff Mirrorless bodies bring today.
p.14 #7 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
mawz wrote:
Think ‘most compact ff ILC with a viewfinder’ and the marketing makes more sense, this is aimed at the blogger and street shooting communities who don’t need 4k60 or dual slots, but want a body that doesn’t pay the size penalty that most ff Mirrorless bodies bring today.
In terms of the image quality that might be offered by the A7C, it is worth remembering that in terms of Bill Claff's measurements of Photographic Dynamic Range, the A73's sensor has the best image quality of any current Sony sensor. So if the A7C is speced to the A73, the image quality should be the best available from Sony.
p.14 #9 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Jeff Kott wrote:
That would be true if DR was the sole determinant of IQ.
In my judgement, the quality of colors on the A73 sensor is also superior. The only thing the A73 gives up to any other Sony sensor is a degree of resolution that it was never intended to offer. And that high resolution on other Sony sensors has it costs as well as its benefits in terms of IQ. For example, both the A73 and the A9 significantly exceed the A7R4 in PDR shadow improvement vs ISO.
I don't own the A73 any longer, so I am not talking my book. I own the A9 and A7R4. But the A73 has a very sweet sensor, as Bill Claff's work indicates.
Sep 05, 2020 at 10:17 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.14 #10 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
chiron wrote:
In terms of the image quality that might be offered by the A7C, it is worth remembering that in terms of Bill Claff's measurements of Photographic Dynamic Range, the A73's sensor has the best image quality of any current Sony sensor. So if the A7C is speced to the A73, the image quality should be the best available from Sony.
I agree with much of what you say here as it is based on the data that Bill Claff provides, but I would be cautious about equating DR with image quality. DR is just one aspect of image quality and although it is true that the A7 III's sensor has both base ISO DR that matches the A7r IV (and is better than the A9 II) and high ISO DR that matches and in some cases exceeds the performance of the A9II (and is better than the A7r IV). That is a much more specific claim than saying the A7 III has the best image quality. For example at base ISO the A7r IV has the same DR as the A7 III and better color sensitivity and of course a lot more resolution. If you want the best IQ at base ISO, then I would say the A7r IV has better overall IQ. None of that, however, takes away from your main point with which I agree: if this A7c has the A7 III sensor it will have fantastic IQ.
p.14 #11 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Steve Spencer wrote:
I agree with much of what you say here as it is based on the data the Bill Claff provides, but I would be cautious about equating DR with image quality. DR is just one aspect of image quality and although it is true that the A7 III's sensor has both base ISO DR that matches the A7r IV (and is better than the A9 II) and high ISO DR that matches and in some cases exceeds the performance of the A9II (and is better than the A7r IV). That is a much more specific claim that saying the A7 III has the best image quality. For example at base ISO the A7r IV has the same DR as the A7 III and better color sensitivity and of course a lot more resolution. If you want the best IQ at base ISO, then I would say the A7r IV has better overall IQ. None of that, however, takes away from your main point with which I agree: if this A7c has the A7 III sensor it will have fantastic IQ....Show more →
Where does your color sensitivity data come from? Are you talking bit depths? It was my personal experience that the A73 consistently produced slightly more luminous color than the other sensors, but that was only my subjective impression. I just always seemed to like the colors a bit more and describing them as bit more luminous captures what I felt I saw. Of course, color sensitivity would not itself be the whole story about color quality.
I don't really disagree with your other point, but I would re-phrase it: Taking as given what you say about the better color sensitivity of the A7R4 and given that it and the A73 match PDR at base, while the A73 generally exceeds it elsewhere, I would not say that the A7R4 has better "overall" IQ but rather that the peak IQ of the A7R4 (i.e., when used at base ISO) may exceed the A73 in color sensitivity when used at base. The limitation of the better performance peak (PDR + color sensitivity) to base IQ while the A73 generally exceeds the A7R4 overall in PDR would preclude the use use of the term "overall." After all, "overall" the sensors are meant to be used at a range of ISO settings and that performance I would say gives the overall image quality. So, overall, I would probably disagree with you and give the prize to the A73. It is hard to beat dynamic range and shadow improvement when one is talking IQ.
I think within a broad range resolution is a different matter than IQ generally and matters primarily in terms of the size of the image, with various trade-offs in terms of using the sensor and in terms of the visual impression and impact made by an image. But one might reasonably disagree with that.
Sep 05, 2020 at 11:44 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.14 #12 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
chiron wrote:
Where does your color sensitivity data come from? Are you talking bit depths? It was my personal experience that the A73 consistently produced slightly more luminous color than the other sensors, but that was only my subjective impression. I just always seemed to like the colors a bit more and describing them as bit more luminous captures what I felt I saw. Of course, color sensitivity would not itself be the whole story about color quality.
I don't really disagree with your other point, but I would re-phrase it: Taking as given what you say about the better color sensitivity of the A7R4 and given that it and the A73 match PDR at base, while the A73 generally exceeds it elsewhere, I would not say that the A7R4 has better "overall" IQ but rather that the peak IQ of the A7R4 (i.e., when used at base ISO) may exceed the A73 in color sensitivity when used at base. The limitation of the better performance peak (PDR + color sensitivity) to base IQ while the A73 generally exceeds the A7R4 overall in PDR would preclude the use use of the term "overall." After all, "overall" the sensors are meant to be used at a range of ISO settings and that performance I would say gives the overall image quality. So, overall, I would probably disagree with you and give the prize to the A73. It is hard to beat dynamic range and shadow improvement when one is talking IQ.
I think within a broad range resolution is a different matter than IQ generally and matters primarily in terms of the size of the image, with various trade-offs in terms of using the sensor and in terms of the visual impression and impact made by an image. But one might reasonably disagree with that....Show more →
The color sensitivity measurements come from DXO mark. I don't think we really disagree at all, I was just pointing to the sort of nuanced analysis you provide above as perhaps a better or at least additional way to characterize the different sensors.
p.14 #13 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
we got the date
I'm still convinced that the Sony interview was mistranslated or something, he was talking about this camera, this is the "everything new" and with a open link so early they seem to be making a bigger deal about this one.
p.14 #16 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
knshshnk wrote:
we got the date
I'm still convinced that the Sony interview was mistranslated or something, he was talking about this camera, this is the "everything new" and with a open link so early they seem to be making a bigger deal about this one.
Maybe.
The current rumored specs don't describe anything I might call "new concept". However, maybe there are still as yet undisclosed features! Maybe something to do with enhanced distribution to the cloud, web and/or social media.
Or maybe rumor of what might be... is much more exciting than reality 😉
p.14 #17 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Zeiss has been so quiet with new releases recently, extending beyond e-mount, that I wonder if they are going to pop up with this new compact line of lenses.
p.14 #18 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Maybe Sony took over the Zeiss ZX1 project?
SAR was pretty far off with the A7siii, not even close. LBJ2 wrote:
Maybe.
The current rumored specs don't describe anything I might call "new concept". However, maybe there are still as yet undisclosed features! Maybe something to do with enhanced distribution to the cloud, web and/or social media.
Or maybe rumor of what might be... is much more exciting than reality 😉
p.14 #20 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I fail to see the point of tiny APS-C size camera bodies
put a F1.4 fast lens, 24-70 zoom, 100-400, 200-600, or other larger lens on them and it is now front heavy, and not much to hold on to body wise
The A7III is even a too small if you do not have the added metal grip extension (GP-X1EM)
