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Archive 2020 · R5 drop to 13 bit on 12fps mechanical

  
 
InnomnateViem
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p.5 #1 · R5 drop to 13 bit on 12fps mechanical


i can agree with your statement. however, i'm not totally convinced that the ES+ bit depth is 12 bits @ 20fps. the table on page 8 of the R5 specification PDF https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/eos/product-1/pdfs/EOSR5_specifications_FINAL_JULY14.pdf that i have states:

Drive Mode/High-speed continuous + shooting *1. the foot note *1 reads:

*1: For shooting RAW images in [High-speed continuous +], 13-bit A/D conversion will apply regardless of the mode (A, B, or C).

no where in that Table is it definitively stated that in the Electronic Shutter mode HS+ 13-bit A/D conversion will be switched to 12 bit A/D conversion.

because Canon does not specifically state in the R5 specification that the ES HS+ bit A/D conversion rate is 12 bit A/D conversion. it is logical to assume that it remains @ 13 bit A/D conversion ES HS+ mode.

this is a situation of ambiguity in the R5 Design Specification. if i were the Technical Writer, SW Integration Engineer, SW Engineer, or the Test Engineer involved in the R5 project. this issue would be resolved in staff meetings with the RDE (Responsible Design Engineer).





my perspective is very acute concerning this matter. simply because from an engineering point of view we have an undefined state in the specification ambiguous at best. one could not design a test methodology for the A/D in ES HS+ based on the the spec. there is no way to defined an expected result for the A/D bit conversion rate 12 v 13. because as written it is ambiguous and undefined.

bottom line the bit depth really doesn't matter. it shall be what it is and ATPIT only Canon knows definitively what the true bit depth is.



Jul 31, 2020 at 01:52 PM
arbitrage
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p.5 #2 · R5 drop to 13 bit on 12fps mechanical


ES does not have H+, H etc. Those settings don’t apply to ES.
That is why there is no reference to ES in the footnote explaining H+.
ES is either 20FPS in AIServo or you can use Single Shot.

I’m sure Jim Kasson will let us know soon enough if ES is 12bit as it states on the European Specifications.

InnomnateViem wrote:
i can agree with your statement. however, i'm not totally convinced that the ES+ bit depth is 12 bits @ 20fps. the table on page 8 of the R5 specification PDF https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/eos/product-1/pdfs/EOSR5_specifications_FINAL_JULY14.pdf that i have states:

Drive Mode/High-speed continuous + shooting *1. the foot note *1 reads:

*1: For shooting RAW images in [High-speed continuous +], 13-bit A/D conversion will apply regardless of the mode (A, B, or C).

no where in that Table is it definitively stated that in the Electronic Shutter mode HS+ 13-bit A/D conversion will be switched to 12 bit A/D conversion.

because Canon does not specifically state
...Show more



Jul 31, 2020 at 05:10 PM
rscheffler
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p.5 #3 · R5 drop to 13 bit on 12fps mechanical


That's assuming Jim Kasson has any interest in testing a Canon camera, given he's a Nikon/Sony/Fuji miniMF user...


Jul 31, 2020 at 07:58 PM
InnomnateViem
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p.5 #4 · R5 drop to 13 bit on 12fps mechanical


ok i stand corrected.

however, no where in that Table is it definitively stated that in the Electronic Shutter mode 13-bit A/D conversion will be switched to 12 bit A/D conversion. therefore, it is still logical to assume that it remains @ 13 bit A/D conversion ES mode.

for arguments sake; what is the bit depth of the Electronic Shutter in single shot mode?



Jul 31, 2020 at 08:04 PM
rscheffler
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p.5 #5 · R5 drop to 13 bit on 12fps mechanical


InnomnateViem wrote:
no where in that Table is it definitively stated that in the Electronic Shutter mode 13-bit A/D conversion will be switched to 12 bit A/D conversion.


I don't understand why this (under File Type), which I posted earlier, isn't a clear enough confirmation that ES mode results in 12-bit A/D conversion?



Jul 31, 2020 at 08:17 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.5 #6 · R5 drop to 13 bit on 12fps mechanical


Interesting to look at the review of R6 - it shows that using electronic shutter (12bit) drops the ability to push shadows by about 1- 2 stops (my assessment) vs mechanical shutter (14 bit).

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-r6-review/6
[go to the iso page and change to plus 5 stops with and without e shutter to compare]

This suggests that R5 pushing at low iso's will be diminished significantly? when using electronic shutter or H plus.

[I suspect that this is also true of Sony and Nikon - DPReview has just not presented this previously ]

So shoot at slow fps (14bit) if you can on R5.



Sep 11, 2020 at 12:50 PM
stanj
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p.5 #7 · R5 drop to 13 bit on 12fps mechanical


A7r4 high speed is even lower bit rate, I believe.


Sep 11, 2020 at 12:57 PM
ShootPDX
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p.5 #8 · R5 drop to 13 bit on 12fps mechanical


molson wrote:
No, the Sony cameras drop you down to 12-bit in many different modes, regardless of how you set the file compression. If you also choose compressed RAW, you end up with not much more than a bloated JPEG file, which I guess is okay of you're one of those people who claim they can't (or won't) see a difference...


I get quite a bit of malleability in my 12-bit compressed raws.



Sep 12, 2020 at 09:50 PM
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